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RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 6:36:27 PM

tazzygirl

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Imagine telling people you "worship" the earth, that you dont believe in a "formal god" and that there is no heaven or hell.

I get it from both sides.

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Post #: 141

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 6:50:42 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Since the only religious people I come into contact with seem pretty intolerant, except for my Mormon partner, I guess I should be more careful about announcing my atheism, even if the tolerant Northwest.

I would not call myself an atheist or an agnostic, i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not.. As a result of what I learned at catechism, i decided as a child that God was no one I wanted to be in heaven with so if he exists or not is entirely irrelevent to me..

I posted a while ago, a question on if a religious person and a non-religious person could be in a successful relationship.. I agree with you, the vid is an eye-opener.. I dont recall any situations where my non-religionism affected me in any way but it could very well be a problem if i were to ever enter a relationship with someone religious.. (I do chat with someone who is religious and we have talked about meeting at some point).. i dunno... perhaps it would destined to be doomed..

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Post #: 142

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 6:56:43 PM

Iamsemisweet

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Religion in relationships is tricky. I had a couple of men that I was dating stop calling me after finding out I was an atheist. I know I would not be interested in being in a relationship with someone who was very religious.
My SO now is not religious either, but he did tell me that he believed human beings were "tampered" with. When I asked him what he meant, he started talking about aliens. Surprised the hell out of me, since the man is a scientist and a pretty smart guy. Hopefully the topic won't come up again.

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Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 143

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 7:32:36 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
My SO now is not religious either, but he did tell me that he believed human beings were "tampered" with. When I asked him what he meant, he started talking about aliens. Surprised the hell out of me, since the man is a scientist and a pretty smart guy. Hopefully the topic won't come up again.

thats pretty funny (in a cute way).. yes, hopefully he wont try to "convert" you.. or perhaps he already has but you dont realize it.. (hmm.. remembering the Body Snatchers)

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Post #: 144

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 7:33:44 PM

MissAsylum

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Never said that the argument was logical. I find it hysterical more than anything.

Also, i didn't hypothesize that argument. I've heard it enough to last me the lifetime from different people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

I pretty much agree with Heather.

Thinking like some of the more religious folks i know (don't take this as what i believe), i'll break down the thought process in simplistic terms.

1. A god or higher spiritual being shapes a believer's moral being.
2. Atheists do not believe in a god or higher spiritual being.
3. Atheists do not have morals
4. Atheists are not trustworthy.

I can see where an Atheist could make the opposite argument.

A Deist obtains any sense of morality from an external source, and therefore, lacks an internally developed morality. A Deist is de facto amoral.

Deists generally believe that faith alone is all that is required to gain some sort of reward after death. Because they will be forgiven their transgressions by proclaiming their faith prior to death, they are able to act immorally and unethically. They will be absolved of their "sins".

Since it is impossible to know whether a Deist is acting in good faith or are acting in bad faith because they believe their sins will be forgiven, they are untrustworthy.

That's every bit as logical as the argument MissA hypothesized.

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Post #: 145

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 7:53:42 PM

MissAsylum

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Been there, done that, bought the t shirt, don't plan on going back for a visit.

I've had a few relationships fail because i am jewish and the person's parent(s) had a problem with it. I've had relationships fail because i am not deeply rooted in Judaism (I am a proud Jew by birthright, but i have pretty fluid ideals....and i tend to think that the old testament is irrelevant. Tends to rub some Jews the wrong way. Who knew?).

I dated an atheist pretty casually for a year, then when we decided to try for a more serious relationship, he began to randomly chastise anything religious i did because i offended him. They were stupid things as far as i was concerned. Saying "no thanks" if i said "bless you" when he sneezed. Sneering at me for blessing my food silently before i touched it and saying that i embarrassed him when i did it at a restaurant.

He was an asshole who just so happened to be an atheist.

I know for a fact that not all atheists are not like that, so i'm not saying anything otherwise.

I just know that having very different religious views is bad for business for me when it comes to a relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Religion in relationships is tricky. I had a couple of men that I was dating stop calling me after finding out I was an atheist. I know I would not be interested in being in a relationship with someone who was very religious.
My SO now is not religious either, but he did tell me that he believed human beings were "tampered" with. When I asked him what he meant, he started talking about aliens. Surprised the hell out of me, since the man is a scientist and a pretty smart guy. Hopefully the topic won't come up again.

_____________________________

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Post #: 146

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 7:54:58 PM

BanthaSamantha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not..

Chaotic Neutral.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 147

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 8:45:00 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

Never said that the argument was logical. I find it hysterical more than anything.

Also, i didn't hypothesize that argument. I've heard it enough to last me the lifetime from different people.

I find it more profoundly moronic than funny. And I know you didn't originate the argument. You just put it into the form (more or less) of a hypothesis.

It's just bizarre to me that there are people who "think" that way.

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(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 148

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 9:41:42 PM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not..

Chaotic Neutral.

How's about Astral Freefloater ...as in serenely, insouciantly floating above the fractious dispute happening below?

Is this a situation where apathy can be positively virtuous?

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Post #: 149

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 9:58:25 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not..

Chaotic Neutral.

How's about Astral Freefloater ...as in serenely, insouciantly floating above the fractious dispute happening below?

Is this a situation where apathy can be positively virtuous?

well,.. I meant a generally recongnizable label.. one that didnt need a long drawn out explanation...

I am not apathetic exactly.. it tore me up that God required belief in him to go to heaven, you could be a sister Teresa (without the sister bit) but all the good work you did helping people wouldnt get you into heaven unless you believed in him (but a serial killer that found God in jail could).. I just thought it was extremely unfair and rather egotisical for him to have that as a requirement (assuming he even exists for real).. Imo, being a good person should be the only requirement.. So I never really considered if he existed or not as i had already rejected him..

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Post #: 150

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/4/2011 10:05:25 PM

Kirata

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Joined: 2/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

Never said that the argument was logical. I find it hysterical more than anything.

i didn't hypothesize that argument. I've heard it enough to last me the lifetime from different people.

Well I wouldn't make a habit of repeating it, if I were you. Just a heads-up. The argument presents Deism where at least Theism is demanded, Western monotheism in particular and in some respects Christianity specifically.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/4/2011 10:43:49 PM >

(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 151

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/5/2011 3:34:27 AM

SpanishMatMaster

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Joined: 9/28/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
i dont know that there is an actual "label" for not giving a shit if God exists or not..

Chaotic Neutral.

Seriously - "apatheist". This is the official label, and it is a kind of agnosticism which I consider particularly reasonable. "Why do you not use reason on the problem of God?" "Because I do not give a single shit of a thought about God on the first place". Reasonable.

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Post #: 152

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/5/2011 5:18:38 AM

MissAsylum

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What difference would it make if I repeated it or not? I've already pissed off my family with it more than once, just from repeating back what they said.

I've said one point, followed by "Correct?" after each one to ensure i am understanding them. When i repeat it back, they get upset.

If people would get made for me using a point blank approach to breaking down their logic, let them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

Never said that the argument was logical. I find it hysterical more than anything.

i didn't hypothesize that argument. I've heard it enough to last me the lifetime from different people.

Well I wouldn't make a habit of repeating it, if I were you. Just a heads-up. The argument presents Deism where at least Theism is demanded, Western monotheism in particular and in some respects Christianity specifically.

K.

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Post #: 153

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/5/2011 6:04:47 AM

vincentML

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quote:

Care to give me some examples of people basing decisions solely upon logic, with no emotional aspect whatsoever?
It cannot be done

Two examples: (1) in medical care, which if I recall correctly is your field, protocols are established to remove emotions from decisions as for example responding to a code blue; (2) when Captain Sullenberger ditched US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River, and countless other responses by people who relied successfully on training and protocol in times of stress.

The logic was established before the need specifically to avoid emotion.

Not the case when converting to a religion, I think. Religion is emotional. It is a matter for the "heart." Either you love/fear your god, or you don't. Nothing logical about it. The same can be said about falling in Love with another person. Totally irrational.

Is it possible, tazzy, that you as an extremely logical thinker and meticulous researcher are not able/willing to imagine a decision made without reason?

< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/5/2011 6:38:43 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 154

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/5/2011 6:19:54 AM

vincentML

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quote:

How's about Astral Freefloater ...as in serenely, insouciantly floating above the fractious dispute happening below?

IDK, tweak. Seems kinda boring

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 155

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/5/2011 9:20:13 AM

Kirata

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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

What difference would it make if I repeated it or not? I've already pissed off my family with it more than once, just from repeating back what they said.

I've said one point, followed by "Correct?" after each one to ensure i am understanding them. When i repeat it back, they get upset.

If people would get made for me using a point blank approach to breaking down their logic, let them.

Okay fine, I was just trying to give you a heads-up.

Somebody doesn't know what Deism is and the argument is ridiculous when stated in terms of Deism.

Other than that, have a nice day.

K.

(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 156

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/5/2011 11:11:10 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

Two examples: (1) in medical care, which if I recall correctly is your field, protocols are established to remove emotions from decisions as for example responding to a code blue; (2) when Captain Sullenberger ditched US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River, and countless other responses by people who relied successfully on training and protocol in times of stress.

In sorry, even in a code blue there are emotions that run extremely high. The desire for that patient to live, the fear that the patient will die. Which is why family members are not supposed to treat their own families. Yet it still happens. I participated in a code for a 2 year old drowning victim... and the emotions were extremely high. We lost that patient, there wasnt a single one of us that didnt cry. Sure, it sounds good that you believe emotions play no part in that scenario.... I prefer knowing they are a huge part of it.

Just because they relied on training does not, in any way, mean emotions did not play a factor in their decisions. You havent proven your point with those examples.

quote:

Not the case when converting to a religion, I think. Religion is emotional. It is a matter for the "heart." Either you love/fear your god, or you don't. Nothing logical about it. The same can be said about falling in Love with another person. Totally irrational.

Every decision we make is based, in some part, on emotions.

Im still waiting on you to prove that wrong.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 157

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/5/2011 11:29:59 AM

HeatherMcLeather

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quote:

How do you "divorce" yourself from emotions to come up with the "irrational" decision many want this choice out to be?

Want to try that again, in English this time?

quote:

According to Heather, someone is irrational because they are basing their decisions on emotions.

No, that's according to reality, that's what the word means.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 158

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/5/2011 11:31:30 AM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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It is in English, dear. Try to read, or ignore it as you usually do.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

Post #: 159

RE: Atheists have a PR problem - 12/5/2011 11:34:30 AM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
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quote:

It is in English, dear.

No its not, at least not what is understood to be English outside of your mind.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 160

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