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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/6/2011 7:51:33 AM   
Rochsub2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PRKazi

My question: Is it possible for an experienced sub to train a Dom/Domme?



Of course it is.  Kinksters have a tendency to believe that D/s or M/s is different than other areas of life.  But it's not.  People are people.  Unless you are omniscient, you can learn something from every person that you meet.

I've been more experienced than many of the Dommes that I've been with.  So I was able to teach them things.  I've taught Dommes how to tie certain knots, or how to do a Florian flogging technique, or how to use certain pieces of equipment at the local dungeon.  But that didn't change the D/s dynamic. 

IMO, if your D/s dynamic is based upon the assumption that the dominant party knows more than the sub about every possible topic, then you're in for a rude awakening.  But just because a sub teaches a Dom/Domme something, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have taken on the mantle of dominance.

IMO, both parties in a relationship are ALWAYS teaching one another.  If you're not, the relationship is going to become stagnant.

When a sub moans a certain way when the flogger strikes their flesh, they are "teaching" their Dom/Domme that they like it like that.  And when they use the safe word when the Dom/Domme strikes with a certain level of force, they are "teaching" the Dom/Domme what their pain threshold is.  When a sub tells their Dom/Domme that the ropes are too tight and they're cutting off blood circulation, they're teaching their Dom/Domme how to tie good knots.

Many Doms/Dommes don't like the thought of being "trained" by their sub, so that word is seldom used.  "Training" sounds like something that you do to a dog.  But the reality is that in any given relationship (vanilla or D/s), both parties are constantly training one another.

Think back to any past relationship.  After a while, didn't you know what behaviors were going to upset your partner?  How did you learn that?  They trained you. 

There is also technical training that can go on.  For example, I have been at a play party and allowed a Dom/Domme, who I was not in a relationship with, to practice on me.  Perhaps they wanted to try tying a new knot, or to learn how to use the suspension equipment, but they didn't have a sub of their own.  So I allowed them to use me for practice, and I provided instruction and/or feedback.  That could be viewed as training the Dom/Domme.

It's sad that some Doms/Dommes think that learning from their sub somehow makes them less dominant.  In reality, nothing could be farther from the truth.  If you are able to learn from your sub, you'll probably be a better Dom/Domme.  But sometimes ego won't allow Doms/Dommes to see what is really quite obvious.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 12/6/2011 8:07:36 AM >

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/6/2011 8:00:12 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		As always, a great post.

I have had the pleasure of discovering my potential sub had far more experience than I at certain things (like typing rope, for example), or with specific toys or devices (ball stretcher, anyone?).

I was thrilled to have the opportunity to learn new skills. Never saw this in the context of training exactly. To me, it was more one person teaching another.




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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/6/2011 8:48:19 AM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		Everybody has to start somewhere.  My Master first sub  i would not say shhe traine him as much as showed him the ropes.  He found out waht he liked and would not like to do.  Of course with evry sub its different but from what he learned he took what suited him and dicarded the rest.  I have always had experienced Doms  i don't know if i could for want of a better word "train" one.

Matt's littleone

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/6/2011 8:54:34 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I have trained a few and not as some stunt subbie they can practice on either. Skills can be learned with practice, techniques can be taught with patience, but dynamics.. that is something that is discussed and evaluated.
So, yeah, there are submissives out there who pass on what they know to dominants just coming into this stuff.

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/6/2011 11:00:20 AM   
PRKazi


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline 		I'm only just now reading through the responses to my original post last night. This is exactly the broad range of responses I was hoping for. Not everybody sees it the same way, and some even question the concept of training a Dom at all. Outstanding! Thanks to all for their comments. I will need some time to take it all in and try to come up with some intelligent follow up comments and/or questions. I do want to explore this topic and some of the comments further.

Thanks again!

Rob.

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/6/2011 8:53:15 PM   
SuzeQ


Posts: 253
Joined: 10/16/2011
From: Under her wing
Status: offline 		I'm being taught by Hannah, Heather, and Cheri. In technical how-to aspects and in relationship aspects as well. Between them they are teaching me how to dominate and how to be dominant.

I had being a pushy broad down pat, but it seems there's more to it than that.

Actually, there's a LOT more to it, the way Hannah does it there is an endless amount of thought that goes into it. It really surprised me how carefully she considers every little thing and its possible ramifications on all concerned.

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/7/2011 1:11:21 PM   
Wheldrake


Posts: 477
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PRKazi
My question: Is it possible for an experienced sub to train a Dom/Domme?

There's an element of this in the relationship I'm in now. In a lot of ways it works out fine, but it also has its frustrations - the main one being that I often feel like I'm "topping from below" when I introduce my Mistress to possibilities. I'm "training" her, in a sense, to match my ideal of what a dominant woman should be, whereas part of me would much rather be bent to the will of someone who has already worked out her own vision of dominance and is prepared to impose it on me. It's not the worst problem a 30-something submissive academic could have, but it does feel a bit stultifying at times.

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/7/2011 1:25:09 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		Very possible. In fact, I can say that it has happened at least once for absolute certain. When I started in this wacky world of what we do I was curious about it, and offered to be somebody's sub so that I could learn more. After that, later on at some point, I decided to sub for another person who had the same curiosities I did, and I saw potential in him as a D-type.

By this point, I was most definitely in Domly mode as well, but, he was intrigued and I felt that he could benefit from the knowledge I'd garnered over time. So, I offered to be his sub, with certain rules in place. After some time, with learning and practice and such, I sort of moved on from being his sub, and being more of an advisor before finally moving on to let him fly free.

We are still in contact with eachother and he'll sometimes call or write asking, "Hey, this is a new one on me... SubbyJoe did xxxxxxxxxxx and I'm not sure what to make of it. Do you have any thoughts on it?". Usually the answer comes after a lot of laughing because it sounds like something asinine I might have thought of doing at one point, just to mess with him. ;)

I find it fun to look at where we both started, and to look at where we are now. How I helped him figure out the basic idea of it and such, but how he has grown on his own, into his own style and methods (which are about 50% of the time drastically different than my own, but still seem to work for him, which is great). And how different I am from my original master in many ways, but at the same time, how similar we all still are in other ways.

So yes, long story short, I was a "training sub" at one point, for lack of a better term. There's nothing wrong with wanting one or having one who has a lot more experience for somebody to learn from when first starting out. In fact, I think it's a fine idea indeed. Just as I also believe that both sides should experience both roles at some point, for a while, so they have a better understanding of what the dynamic really entails.

EDIT: Thinking, reading, listening, talking and typing at the same time make things not make much sense... changed a few words in the first paragraph.

< Message edited by BKSir -- 12/7/2011 1:29:39 PM >

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/7/2011 2:35:10 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		1-I've learned something from almost everyone I've ever played with, no matter if they are new or not. Sometimes it's what to do. Sometimes it's what not to do. Never ever underestimate the power of a negative example.
Any lack of learning is 9 times outta 10 a failure to be open minded on my part.

2-When I was 18 I dated a gal who was 26. She had also, unbeknownst to moi, spent 3 years prior to our relationship in a 24/7 TPE with a mistress.
That gal taught me damn near everything I know about BDSM. No "training sub" nonsense, just two people in love exploring together under the fortuitous circumstances of one party actually having an idea about WTF we were doing.
It was bloody awesome.


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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/22/2011 10:25:59 PM   
MissJoy


Posts: 4
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		If you have to train that Dom, then you are not submitting, but if that Dom is what you want, you will not only submit, but He/She will address your levels. Everyones obvious agenda gets known by asking questions and I refuse that anyone is expert on everything unless the Dom can interview and evaluate, then take charge. My number one question is," can this fit in my life or not?" because I will not settle for just anything.

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/23/2011 7:07:26 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I don't believe it is possible for a submissive to train someone on what it is to be a Dominant.  Submissives have different perspectives of things than dominants do.  And, yes, to me they see the world differently and relationships differently.  I can see a sub being used to give a perspective to a dom but training a dom to be a Dominant of someone.  No lol. 

Also, do Dom's need to be trained?  I would hope not.   Hone their skills and understandings yes, learning to apply.    To me, being dominant is something you are and shouldn't need to be "trained."   Honing your skills and understandings of your power and where your responsibilities are -- to me is based on perspective, and would better be honed with another who has experience applying same and understanding same.  People always have things to learn, i don't believe a sub should be the active teacher in teaching a Dom to be a Dominant of someone, i do believe subs can be used to help the process and to see the perspective of their lives as subs.  At the very least, I don't believe the sub or slave who is actually part of the relationship should be the one doing the teaching, it seems kind of a reversal of roles that would confuse the issue.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/23/2011 7:08:33 AM >

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/23/2011 7:09:42 AM   
masternoname


Posts: 164
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline 		If they are knowledgable in the lifestyle, why not?

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/23/2011 7:17:48 AM   
masternoname


Posts: 164
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I don't believe it is possible for a submissive to train someone on what it is to be a Dominant.  Submissives have different perspectives of things than dominants do.  And, yes, to me they see the world differently and relationships differently.  I can see a sub being used to give a perspective to a dom but training a dom to be a Dominant of someone.  No lol. 



I have trouble believing there is that much difference between doms and subs. Underneath the lables they are just people. If what you said was true, there wouldn't be any switches.

quote:



Also, do Dom's need to be trained?  I would hope not.   Hone their skills and understandings yes, learning to apply.    To me, being dominant is something you are and shouldn't need to be "trained."   Honing your skills and understandings of your power and where your responsibilities are -- to me is based on perspective, and would better be honed with another who has experience applying same and understanding same.  People always have things to learn, i don't believe a sub should be the active teacher in teaching a Dom to be a Dominant of someone, i do believe subs can be used to help the process and to see the perspective of their lives as subs.  At the very least, I don't believe the sub or slave who is actually part of the relationship should be the one doing the teaching, it seems kind of a reversal of roles that would confuse the issue.

angel


It sounds as if you think subs are somehow less than doms. If I know a sub I can learn from than you better believe I will take advantage of the opportunity. I won't be worrying about whether or not the person is a dom or a sub.

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/23/2011 7:49:39 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Well, you are right, and?  Last i checked, we all have our own opinions, and you probably wouldn't like most of my views on D/s and M/s, so pretty much you don't need to like my answer.

You seemed to not have actually READ what i wrote.   If you want to be TRAINED AS A DOMINANT by a sub and think i will respect you for it -- think again, i won't.

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/23/2011 8:47:02 AM   
Higuysitsme


Posts: 127
Joined: 12/10/2011
From: Sheffield, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fornica

I believe in D/s as a part of the relationship I'm in. I can't imagine having a sub, or a Master, that I didn't also love, and choose as the other half of me. So, that being said, if I were a sub, entering into a relationship with a man wanting to learn about exploring his Dominance, sure. I don't know that I'd call it "training" as much as exploring and discovering, together.
I'm somewhat stream of consciousness posting, so hopefully that made sense.


That is absolutely beautiful, Fornica. So full of good sense and feeling. Thank you.

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/27/2011 4:15:47 PM   
Clickofheels


Posts: 603
Joined: 10/23/2011
Status: offline 		In my opinion, I think Rochsub2009 had the best post in regard to the OP's question:
How very true, this...

People are people. You can learn something from every person that you meet. Both parties in a relationship are ALWAYS teaching one another.

As for the word "training" that echos throughout this thread, would not a better word be "sharing?" We share our knowledge, our desires, our limitations, our appetites.
In that way, while indeed a role is assumed, no one is smarter nor above another.

Ms Click

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/27/2011 4:26:58 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

When a sub moans a certain way when the flogger strikes their flesh, they are "teaching" their Dom/Domme that they like it like that.  And when they use the safe word when the Dom/Domme strikes with a certain level of force, they are "teaching" the Dom/Domme what their pain threshold is.  When a sub tells their Dom/Domme that the ropes are too tight and they're cutting off blood circulation, they're teaching their Dom/Domme how to tie good knots.


Nicely said as far as technique.

I'm with Angel for attitude/personality/temperament:

quote:

I don't believe it is possible for a submissive to train someone on what it is to be a Dominant.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/27/2011 5:03:36 PM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		I think you guys may be talking past each other.

I don't believe you can train personality traits (dominant/submissive) but you can train behaviors (topping/bottoming).

I am a submissive/slave. That is in my personality and in my nature. This being said, I could learn to peg a man if I or my dominant wanted me to learn. I could learn to whip someone. I could learn how to slap someone in the face without causing damage. Those things are behaviors and are not dependent upon my personality. Whether or not I would enjoy those behaviors is a different thing altogether.

I think that when most people talk of "training a dom/sub" they are speaking of the behaviors, and if a submissive is an expert at wielding a whip, I can't see any reason why they could not train a dominant how to wield one as well, and it wouldn't make me look down on or disrespect a dominant from learning those skills from a submissive either (but maybe that is just me).

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/27/2011 6:45:50 PM   
ktfezz


Posts: 2
Joined: 11/16/2011
Status: offline 		I too have ended up in relationships where I was the one wanting to play and him agreeing to it but having no clue how to go about it. I ended up having to be the dominant one to show him what I wanted. Ruined the entire dynamic. I can understand being able to tell someone what you want, but having to show them is a totally different thingl

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RE: Training a Dom? - 12/28/2011 5:22:13 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I don't believe it is possible for a submissive to train someone on what it is to be a Dominant.  Submissives have different perspectives of things than dominants do.  And, yes, to me they see the world differently and relationships differently.  I can see a sub being used to give a perspective to a dom but training a dom to be a Dominant of someone.  No lol. 



Ya know, if you flip this comment around (And agree with it, which I leave to the viewer), it kinda destroys that Old Guard idea that a dom must first serve, to know what the experience is.

I mean, using BA's thesis, how could it work, because they have/are approaching things from such different perspectives?


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HST

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