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RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 11:48:02 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WebWanderer
Bus accidents are rare. Violence among kids is frequent. Please read my post again.

You'd rather some school bullying was drawing blood from a kid who can't make them ill, then?
There's a lot of childhood privelleges I'll defend, but that's not one of them.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 11:50:22 AM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm not quite sure why this kid would even want to attend this school. I mean from what I read his parents said so he can get a better education. From what I know of this school he's not going to get it there. Most kids there learn at a lower level than those in public schools because most of the kids there are disadvantaged, mentally incapacitated, violent, have some kind of problem which is why the parents have sent them there. The students who go there were turned away from public schools due to their problems. Milton Hershey is usually the school of last resort.

Was this boy also turned away from public schools for his problem? Are they wanting to send him there because it's their last resort?

I would think this boy could find better schools than Milton Hershey.



I am going to take you at your word about this school.  Basically because I am very familiar with how these schools "present" themselves to the public.  They always present as being a wonderful, loving environment where kids have a better opportunity for learning, yet they often, in reality are providing anything but.

This is being presented as though this is a wonderful private school for disadvantages kids (which I'm sure was the original intent) where they are encouraged to learn and perform at their best.  Assuming your personal knowledge of this school is correct (and I am), something is seriously amiss here, and it has dollar signs attached to it.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 12:20:22 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
You'd rather some school bullying was drawing blood from a kid who can't make them ill, then?
There's a lot of childhood privelleges I'll defend, but that's not one of them.

...
Where in the bloody hell did that come from? No, i'd rather it didn't. In my perfect world, there's no bullying and all kids are wonderful to one another and we all live happily ever after and roast smores while singing Kumbaya every night as we enjoy a beautiful sunset in pollution-free sky. Unfortunately, ours is not a perfect world. (Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.) Children can be (and often are) violent little monsters who gang up on one another for a wide variety of reasons, sometimes simply because they're bored. i'm talking about normal children here - kids with mental or learning disabilities are probably even worse off in terms of emotional maturity. Bullying and fighting will always take place no matter how many precautions you take, and if it results in the HIV kid's bloody nose, there's a very serious risk of contagion.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 12:30:26 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

I believe that both sides have merit here.  It is pretty presumptious to ask other people to take on the full time responsibility of an HIV child.  That is what this entails.  This boy may be asymptomatic, but he still requires additional medical attention compared to the "average" student.  Realistically, that is what taking this boy on as a student would entail for the school.  So the question then becomes, would admitting this child lessen the availability of care for the other students?  I don't know the answer to that, but it is possible, foreseeable and likely that it could.

I am assuming it was a typo when you said this:

quote:

quote:


the school states the parent would not agree to the school informing others about his condition, such as house parents and others directed in his education and care... but that they would not agree to education of the other students.



Yes, I didnt catch that.

quote:

Your quote looks like a typo, but on review of the school's filing it isn't. It is wholly unreasonable in a residential setting to deny the right of caregivers the knowledge of his condition. Even in a day school setting dealing with minor children, it is reasonable to expect staff to have knowledge of the condition so they can properly address any issues that come up.


What I read in the school's filings, and I am glad you read it as well, is that the mother denied informing both any guardian as well as any student.

quote:

I sympathize with this child wanting a good education, I really do. I don't sympathize with his mother, who is the likely reason this boy has HIV in the first place. But his health situation alone should not permit him admittance to this school. He was turned down on a previous application. I would be interested in the details of that application, since he had HIV then as well.


Im going to interject something here, from personal experience. A patient I took care of was a young female, with a 5 year old son. Aids. Her husband denied the physicians the ability to tell his wife. Upon his death, she discovered why he died and she and the son were tested. Mom was positive, son was negative.

A quick check of PA laws. I couldnt find a statute requiring the informing of a spouse. Law officials, yes, spouse, no. 13 years ago, that may not have been a requirement anyways. Im not saying mom doesnt have it. Im simply saying the way she contracted it may not have been of her own doing...

quote:

Something tells me there is more to this story than what we are seeing in the press. Twice the child applied and twice the child was turned down. They don't say the mother is HIV positive or even full blown AIDS, but since this boy had it from birth it isn't a huge leap to figure out she gave it to him. He isn't a foster child, it would have been mentioned (raises pity levels), he is with his biological mother, who through her own behavior gave her child a deadly disease. The school, by everything we have seen has tried to deal with this appropriately, but the mother (not the child) rushed to filing suit and asking for damages "to be determined by the court." Not just for the boy, but for what she has suffered as well. That doesn't sit well with me.


I was curious about this as well. Could it be her health is failing? Not enough is known at this point.

quote:

Is this the child's desire to attend this school, or is this his mother wanting him out of the house so she can engage in more risky behavior? That isn't stereotyping, that is a gut feeling based on the paperwork available. Why would you not want the staff to be fully cognizant of this boy's health issues? At the very LEAST, it would give them the opportunity to pay more attention to his physical condition. When someone with HIV gets a cold, or any other illness that healthy people consider "minor," it has the potential (just like with a diabetic) to snowball into something much worse. We regularly send our kids to school when they have the sniffles or a cold, but that really wouldn't be appropriate for this kid. What is the reasoning the family thinks should be given that this kid should be on restricted activities or bedrest for such things?


Again, we are assuming that her status is of her own making. Is it probable? yes. Is it possible she contracted it through someone else and she didnt know? yes.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 12:31:56 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Children can be (and often are) violent little monsters who gang up on one another for a wide variety of reasons, sometimes simply because they're bored. i'm talking about normal children here - kids with mental or learning disabilities are probably even worse off in terms of emotional maturity. Bullying and fighting will always take place no matter how many precautions you take, and if it results in the HIV kid's bloody nose, there's a very serious risk of contagion.


Instead of excusing the bullies and preventing a child from attending because of bullying, they should get rid of the bullies.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 12:39:18 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Instead of excusing the bullies and preventing a child from attending because of bullying, they should get rid of the bullies.

How, praytell, would you go about doing that? Short of lobotomizing every kid, or assigning them each a bodyguard, or pumping the school full of gas to make them all super-mellow (and we all know how that worked out in Serenity *g*), it's impossible. Children are not emotionally mature by definition and often unable - or unwilling - to process their emotions in a non-violent way. Remove 10% of the most violent kids, and the 10% below them will fill that vacuum. Show me one - just one! - school that managed to completely eradicate all bullying.

< Message edited by WebWanderer -- 12/7/2011 12:40:55 PM >


_____________________________

Author of Introduction to Self-Bondage and Nine Tales of Submission - now available on Kindle! :)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 12:43:11 PM   
tazzygirl


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Show me one that attempted it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 12:58:08 PM   
WebWanderer


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From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
You were the one who implied it's possible to eradicate bullying. The burden of proof is on you.

_____________________________

Author of Introduction to Self-Bondage and Nine Tales of Submission - now available on Kindle! :)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:00:02 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
I never once said eradicate bullying. Start dumping the bullies out. Why should any child have to suffer a bully? Why are they given more than one chance?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:04:20 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
If it's as simple as "dumping the bullies out," why do you think not a single school in the whole wide world ever did that? Or maybe they did but it didn't solve the problem? Like i said - the burden of proof is on you. If you're unable to prove your point, we can just leave it at that and avoid further bandwidth clogging.

_____________________________

Author of Introduction to Self-Bondage and Nine Tales of Submission - now available on Kindle! :)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:14:09 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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If you will notice, it has already been stated that the school and students should know, at least in my opinion. And the law seems to agree with that position.

I asked you before, and you have yet to prove the point. How many students have ended up HIV+ because of contact sports?

The CDC position...

Can I get HIV while playing sports?
There are no documented cases of HIV being transmitted during participation in sports. The very low risk of transmission during sports participation would involve sports with direct body contact in which bleeding might be expected to occur.

If someone is bleeding, their participation in the sport should be interrupted until the wound stops bleeding and is both antiseptically cleaned and securely bandaged. There is no risk of HIV transmission through sports activities where bleeding does not occur.


How quickly would a bully hit another kid if the bully knew the risks?

Whats happening is the child with HIV is being penalized because of the actions of others... actions he cannot control.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:18:30 PM   
imdmb


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/3/2009
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umm... this is all much too carefuly worded in my opinion, it seems what the kid and mother are saying are very very carefuly worded, i have some doubts that this was a serious application, i almost think that they signed up for this school under these circumstances specificaly to get a lawsuit

this just sounds way too much like fishing to me...

just my opinion as sombody with a very bad immune system whose spent more time in hospitals then he probably ever will

_____________________________

this is all my own opinion! dont take it as anything but what i have experienced personaly! this is what has happened to me! results may vary!
im also usually half asleep when im on this forum...

(in reply to searching4mysir)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:18:53 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WebWanderer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
You'd rather some school bullying was drawing blood from a kid who can't make them ill, then?
There's a lot of childhood privelleges I'll defend, but that's not one of them.

...
Where in the bloody hell did that come from? No, i'd rather it didn't. In my perfect world, there's no bullying and all kids are wonderful to one another and we all live happily ever after and roast smores while singing Kumbaya every night as we enjoy a beautiful sunset in pollution-free sky. Unfortunately, ours is not a perfect world. (Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.) Children can be (and often are) violent little monsters who gang up on one another for a wide variety of reasons, sometimes simply because they're bored. i'm talking about normal children here - kids with mental or learning disabilities are probably even worse off in terms of emotional maturity. Bullying and fighting will always take place no matter how many precautions you take, and if it results in the HIV kid's bloody nose, there's a very serious risk of contagion.

You tell the kid to rub it's dirty HIV blood in its oppressor's gums.
After a few such incidents it'll either get tarred and feathered, or the bullying will stop.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:21:50 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
i admit i jumped the gun when i talked about possible contagion via a sports injury. i was wrong.

quote:

How quickly would a bully hit another kid if the bully knew the risks?

How would the bully know the risks if the HIV kid's mother refused to inform the school's faculty? How would the bully be able to comprehend the risk if he (or she) isn't very bright to begin with?

quote:

Whats happening is the child with HIV is being penalized because of the actions of others... actions he cannot control.

i'm a male. my Y chromosome is beyond my control, so now i can never be a server at Hooters. i'm 6'2", which is also beyond my control, which means i can never be a professional jockey. i'm white, so chances are i'll never, ever be elected president of NAACP. Boo hoo hoo...

_____________________________

Author of Introduction to Self-Bondage and Nine Tales of Submission - now available on Kindle! :)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:29:10 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WebWanderer
How would the bully know the risks if the HIV kid's mother refused to inform the school's faculty? How would the bully be able to comprehend the risk if he (or she) isn't very bright to begin with?

If the kid is too stupid to wonder about that, it deserves everything it gets.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:38:55 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
If the kid is too stupid to wonder about that, it deserves everything it gets.

So it's okay to infect stupid people with HIV? Interestinger and interestinger...

_____________________________

Author of Introduction to Self-Bondage and Nine Tales of Submission - now available on Kindle! :)

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:38:59 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

i'm a male. my Y chromosome is beyond my control, so now i can never be a server at Hooters. i'm 6'2", which is also beyond my control, which means i can never be a professional jockey. i'm white, so chances are i'll never, ever be elected president of NAACP. Boo hoo hoo...


Hooters have been sued for not allowing male servers.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517334,00.html

Seems Hooters settled.

Being 6'2 would not prevent you from being a jockey. Your weight would.

You are white which means chances are you would never be allowed into the NAACP to begin with. Being President isnt afforded to many of us.

I think you need to go back and read the ADA laws.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:40:09 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

So it's okay to infect stupid people with HIV?


How is this boy infecting anyone?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to WebWanderer)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:41:41 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
He's not, unless somebody fucks with him.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: HIV Discrimination - 12/7/2011 1:50:42 PM   
WebWanderer


Posts: 255
Joined: 5/20/2011
From: Fort Worth, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I think you need to go back and read the ADA laws.

i did. Here it is, taken from this page, section III, question 5:
"A public accommodation is required to provide auxiliary aids and services where necessary to ensure effective communication with individuals with disabilities, unless an undue burden (i.e., a significant difficulty or expense) or fundamental alteration would result." (Emphasis added.)

Also, from the first article you quoted: "In order to protect our children in this unique environment, we cannot accommodate the needs of students with chronic communicable diseases that pose a direct threat to the health and safety of others. The reason is simple. We are serving children, and no child can be assumed to always make responsible decisions which protect the well being of others. "

Significant difficulty. Cannot accommodate. Check and mate.

_____________________________

Author of Introduction to Self-Bondage and Nine Tales of Submission - now available on Kindle! :)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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