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Loyalty - 12/8/2011 8:01:05 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Another topic snippeted from the FL O/p group --

Do you believe your "captial letter person" has to earn your loyalty, or does s/he have it by virtue of being who s/he are in your relationship?
Do you believe loyalty is even necessary? Why or why not?

Have you ever had an experience that put loyalty and obedience in conflict? Say a situation where you were told to do one thing, but your sense of loyalty caused you to disobey and remain?

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"Obey your Master." Metallica

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 8:10:46 AM

DarkSteven

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Yes.

I one had a sub that disparaged me to others. In my mind, she had a choice - stay with me and accept me, or leave. If something was bad enough that she felt she needed to complain about it to others, she had an obligation to discuss it with me and either get resolution and stay, or else not get resolution and leave.

As far as I'm concerned, I've earned her loyalty if she's seen enough of me that she decided to stay with me.

I don;t follow how loyalty and obedience could conflict. Obedience means she does what I say. Loyalty means she does not disparage me and represents me well.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 2

RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 8:17:47 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Well one of the chicks who posted there mentioned an incident where her O had told her to leave (I assume it was a dangerous situation) and she chose to disobey and stay because she didn't want him to face "whatever it was" alone.
I can REALLY relate to that, because, at least I know in my past, if he needed backup, I wanted to be there, even if he was more concerned with me being safe. :p
It's a difficult conflict!
But I guess you could say that, by obeying and leaving, it's one less thing for him to worry about, and maybe he can handle the situation better without having to worry about you? But gah -- yeah, it's a tough one.

I'm a super loyal person, so if that person has become Capital Such-n-Such to me, then he's got my loyalty, end of story.
Saying negative things about a partner behind his back, that doesn't seem very mature...

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to DarkSteven)

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 9:02:48 AM

tazzygirl

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Loyalty to me is... Stay no matter what.

The man has earned my loyalty in spades. Being submissive doesnt mean you always have to obey. There are times, especially when its medically related, that I tell him how it is. Men are so stubborn that way.

So, while I dont always "obey" I will always be "loyal".

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 9:08:29 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Makes sense, tazzy. :p I can really relate to that, too.

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 9:14:25 AM

Fornica

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Agree with the others.
I wouldn't submit (or Domme) to someone I wasn't in a relationship with. I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone I wasn't loyal to. It's a circle. And part of being loyal, is standing by your Partner, and, like, Steven said, representing them well.
Sort of an offside, but, this is something I hold true in my life in a few different ways..I was married for more than 10 years, and I never spoke poorly of my husband (in front of him or behind) to others..it's just distasteful to me. We get a lot of notes on facebook from people noticing even how we interact with each other and our mutual kids on there (things like wow, I can't believe you two joke around, praise each other, etc). I think it's in part the way I was raised..we were told the way we behave is how we present ourselves, and our family. It's something I hold true, and make a pretty big priority in my life.
Sorry for the ramble.

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There is no spoon.

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 9:16:57 AM

LillyBoPeep

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No worries, it's not a bad ramble. ^_^ I think being aware of how you reflect on your partner is a good thing. Because people do reflect on those they keep company with. (There's a quote about that somewhere...)
And part of being loyal could be working towards their goals, not against them -- if you present a bad image, you can become a hindrance rather than a help.

Like I've talked to some people who stress that they need a girl to be able to behave around vanilla family or colleagues, and I can't really imagine what mature adult wouldn't be able to do that... haha

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Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to Fornica)

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 9:18:46 AM

Fornica

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I know, right? Like, does that REALLY need to be specified? That you shouldn't spread your legs in front of Grandma? lol

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 9:22:14 AM

LillyBoPeep

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Haha apparently it does!

Which just makes me go...... o_0

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Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 10:17:33 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Like I've talked to some people who stress that they need a girl to be able to behave around vanilla family or colleagues, and I can't really imagine what mature adult wouldn't be able to do that... haha

You'd be surprised.

I had one submissive who had spent years living in rural areas with no nearby neighbors. I had to explain to her that she was NOT to wear dresses without panties because she unthinkingly kept flashing the neighbors.

Another woman (one date only) grabbed my crotch when we were in line. Nobody saw it, but she still got dumped heatedly as soon as we were not in public.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 10

RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 10:21:57 AM

Fornica

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O_o

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There is no spoon.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 10:43:14 AM

tazzygirl

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Some think its only about the sex.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 12

RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 11:22:41 AM

SimplyMichael

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Loyalty is very very very important to me. However if I tell my woman its a dangerious situation and I need her to leave...she better get the hell out if there! To me, staying has nothing to do with loyalty, it about working as a team. Now not staying when things get rough, or when times get hard that is the sort of loyalty that is important to me.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 13

RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 12:15:46 PM

littlewonder

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He never had to prove his loyalty to me. He "proved" it to me simply through his personality and who he is as a person. I don't do the whole proving thing. To me that shows insecurities in a relationship and that the person is still healing from a previous burn. I made sure before I entered into a relationship that I was already healthy enough to have one in which I wasn't constantly worried and insecure and questioning. I didn't want to go through that.

He's never put me in a situation where obeying meant being unloyal to him. I can't imagine any kind of situation where that would happen. By obeying him in whatever way I'm being loyal to him.

I love him and therefore I trust him and therefore I have no reason whatsoever to not be loyal to him.

ETA: ok went back and read your other posts and if he told me to leave a situation then I would leave. Yeah I wouldn't want to. I would want to be there to help him but I would leave because I trust him to know what he's doing and that he can handle the situation.

There have been times when I wanted to help him with something because I thought he needed the help but he told me to leave it be and that it was his responsibility. Yup, it tore me up inside. Yup I wanted to help but I stopped because I knew if I continued to help him he would have been pissed at me and I would pay for it later and not in a fun way.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 12/8/2011 12:20:19 PM >

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Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 12:54:20 PM

NuevaVida

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Loyalty is something that grows with time. I didn't have the kind of loyalty to him 2 years ago that I do today.

I'm loyal to him, and I am loyal to our relationship. Being loyal to our relationship means doing what I know is important to him that I do. If that means leaving a dangerous situation, then I would leave the dangerous situation, however, it would be extremely difficult for me to do so.

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

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RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 2:12:24 PM

littleone35

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I am 100% loyal to my Master. He did not have to earn it it happened because who he is and who i am.

If we were in a angerous situation ans he told me to leave. I would not want to and be worrtied out of my mind . I would though because i know Master can take care of himself.

I am loyal to him and him to me. It is a 2 way street i think.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 16

RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 2:55:23 PM

LafayetteLady

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From: Northern New Jersey
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Ok, what the hell is wrong with those people over there, lol? You are becoming the poster child for "don't go to FL," to me.

Anyway, given your example, leaving isn't being disloyal in anyone's eyes/mind than the person who believes it does. Obviously, if a dominant tells a submissive to leave a situation, the dominant doesn't believe the submissive is disloyal in doing so.

Loyalty and obedience are very different things. I'm extremely loyal to my friends and my significant others. I will protect them with all I have. It isn't something one "earns" because people should have a sense of loyalty to those they care about. Obedience isn't really something that needs to be "earned" either. Trust? Definately. But if someone is submissive and has not desire to be obedient, what exactly is the point of entering a D/s relationship?

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 17

RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 3:05:56 PM

LillyBoPeep

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Haha, well that's not what I'm trying to do -- I just think some of the topics are interesting depending on how you look at certain things. One person thought being loyal wasn't really necessary, and that befuddled me. I don't understand how you could NOT be loyal. So I just wanted to pop it over here and get some other perspectives. hahaha

FL really is an OK place! promise!

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 18

RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 3:31:34 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

Loyalty and obedience are very different things. I'm extremely loyal to my friends and my significant others. I will protect them with all I have. It isn't something one "earns" because people should have a sense of loyalty to those they care about. Obedience isn't really something that needs to be "earned" either. Trust? Definately. But if someone is submissive and has not desire to be obedient, what exactly is the point of entering a D/s relationship?

I cant be loyal to someone I dont trust. And my trust level was next to nil when the man jumped into my life.

Its been bumpy... but its been worth it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 19

RE: Loyalty - 12/8/2011 4:38:33 PM

RaspberryLemon

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Everyone has to "earn" someone's loyalty. But it isn't a process of them "proving themselves" or something, but rather it's a process of me getting to know them and developing how I feel about that person and learning how much I care about them. A process of developing trust and love. So yes, in a sense he earned it, but I believe "developed" is a better word. Earned seems to have the connotation of "proving worthiness," which is really not how it works.

That being said, I love my Master with all of my being, and I trust him, and thus he has my 100% loyalty. He would not be my Master and romantic partner were I not loyal to him and if I did not love and trust him. I believe loyalty, as well as trust, are pretty essential in ANY relationship, and from both(all) sides of it.

On the subject of him and I being in a dangerous situation and him telling me to leave... I haven't encountered this, and so I really don't know what I'd do. I don't really ever have a problem obeying him, but when I imagine the situation described here, I find it extremely difficult to predict my behavior. I would obviously feel very conflicted. On one hand, I generally trust his judgment and his ability to handle himself, but he's also adamantly encouraged me to question everything--if something doesn't seem right, he wants me to speak up so he can hear my thoughts. I imagine that in said dangerous scenario we wouldn't exactly have the time to talk though, and so I most likely would have to weigh the particular situation myself and act accordingly. I mean, I'd be pretty torn. If I felt for whatever reason that my leaving would hurt more than help, I would have an extremely hard time obeying, no doubt. I don't know if I would or not, to be perfectly honest. If I felt incredibly strongly that I could save his life by staying to try and help, and that if I were to leave, he'd end up dead or severely fucked up, I'd stay. I'd feel bad for not obeying, but in this case my concern for his well-being would be stronger than my desire to obey. Like I said, I really can't say what I'd do here, and I think it'd depend on the exact situation. It's very hard to predict, as is evident by how much of a clusterfuck this paragraph has been.

And on the topic of reflecting an image of your partner, I believe fair representation is pretty important--being accurate and honest, speaking positively and sticking up for them and their image.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 20

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