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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/8/2011 11:19:06 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Let`s do some "strike busting" only this time it`s CEOs who get billy-clubed.


That's smart....kill the goose.

Good move Einstein.

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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/8/2011 11:58:13 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

First off, the fact that there is excess capital is a problem.  In an ideal economy, consumer demand will create need for capital expenditures, and the capital will be present to allow it.  If capital is low or demand is low, we have a mismatch.  We have one now.

Unfortunately, there's not much the feds can do about it except to spend money they don't have.

In a free market economy, the capital spending will resume once demand does.



Steven, I largely agree with you there but there is one factor that is dropping demand by consumers and that's those "free-trade" deals that have killed millions of good paying jobs in this country with which the consumer could buy a lot of things.
If you were making say $55 per hour ten or fifteen years ago and now after "Nafta" you' re making only $35 an hour that's a serious financial monkey wrench thrown into the machinary.
People in that position aren't going to be "spending" money like they used to!
Those "free-trade" deals are biting the workers and middle class in the ass right now and it won't be long before a lot of those companies who called for those free trade deals will get bitten right in the ass too!
If people are making less money each year they won't be thinking about buying from a lot of those cos. will they? And around and around it goes.

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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/9/2011 5:44:24 AM   
Sanity


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Thats the far lefts philosophy on a nutshell unfortunately, and there are too many of them who believe that enslaving the successful is the path to a brighter future

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Let`s do some "strike busting" only this time it`s CEOs who get billy-clubed.


That's smart....kill the goose.

Good move Einstein.



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/9/2011 6:06:14 AM   
FrostedFlake


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What would happen if the personal exemption was raised to the poverty line?

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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/9/2011 6:31:49 AM   
Owner59


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We wouldn`t have to jail to many or seize very many companies,just like with traditional strike breaking,you just have to jail/punish/penalize a few and the rest will follow.

We pass laws saying labor CAN`T strike for reasons of security and the economy,don`t we?We call out the national guard to step in,yes?When labor strikes,cons call for all kinds of government actions that mirror dictatorships trying to take their people`s freedoms and rights away,yes?

We can do the same with capital.What`s good for the goose is also good for the gander.

The economy,our economy, belongs to everyone,not just the 1%.

That the wealthy are the "golden goose" is an un-challenged assumption.They are not the economy.76% of our economy is consumer spending.That`s us.

Capital didn`t create that.We did.They are just the one`s making the most money from it.The economy doesn`t belong to them,the market place doesn`t belong to them.Those thing belong to everyone.

Yet because they control a small part of it,they are going to hold our prosperity hostage?!!!!


I say,tell them FUCK YOU!



Corporate America is making record profits right fucking now! And they`re going to hold out so and until they can get even more out of our hides?!!!So they can make billions more on top of the billions they`re making now?!!!



I say 1st off,any company not producing jobs should lose the special tax breaks....period.Then that money should be put to creating jobs elsewhere.I don`t care if it`s business or a government job.


If you don`t think it`s possible to do this or shouldn`t because capital owns the economy,it just might be a slave mentality working.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/9/2011 6:40:42 AM >


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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/9/2011 6:37:41 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Thats the far lefts philosophy on a nutshell unfortunately, and there are too many of them who believe that enslaving the successful is the path to a brighter future


That statement about corporate muck-a-mucks with their 8 figure salaries is almost as funny as when those NFL players who are making Millions whine about being 'slaves'

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/9/2011 5:19:55 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

We wouldn`t have to jail to many or seize very many companies,just like with traditional strike breaking,you just have to jail/punish/penalize a few and the rest will follow.

We pass laws saying labor CAN`T strike for reasons of security and the economy,don`t we?We call out the national guard to step in,yes?When labor strikes,cons call for all kinds of government actions that mirror dictatorships trying to take their people`s freedoms and rights away,yes?

We can do the same with capital.What`s good for the goose is also good for the gander.

The economy,our economy, belongs to everyone,not just the 1%.

That the wealthy are the "golden goose" is an un-challenged assumption.
They are not the economy.76% of our economy is consumer spending.That`s us.

Capital didn`t create that.We did.They are just the one`s making the most money from it.The economy doesn`t belong to them,the market place doesn`t belong to them.Those thing belong to everyone.

Yet because they control a small part of it,they are going to hold our prosperity hostage?!!!!

I say,tell them FUCK YOU!

Corporate America is making record profits right fucking now! And they`re going to hold out so and until they can get even more out of our hides?!!!So they can make billions more on top of the billions they`re making now?!!!

I say 1st off,any company not producing jobs should lose the special tax breaks....period.Then that money should be put to creating jobs elsewhere.I don`t care if it`s business or a government job.

If you don`t think it`s possible to do this or shouldn`t because capital owns the economy,it just might be a slave mentality working.


I'm gonna tell you a few secrets that apparently you weren't privy to growing up (as well as a few places you're correct):

I'm gonna guess (it's a gut feel, but I'm going with it) that you're not part of "the 1%" (neither am I by the way...but, I think the main difference between {possibly} you and I is...I believe I can be).

The 1% know inherently that the economy "belongs to all of us".  You are 137 and 3/16th's correct on that subject.  The 1% however, agreeably, can afford more of it than you can.

And you reserve your wrath for those who have worked hard and done well.

Amazing.  Sorry, poor choice of words.....I meant.....stunning.

The 1% aren't even remotely concerned that there are some (many, actually) that believe they're "the man, putting their thumb down on all the rest of (you)".  They are vibrantly clear that's what the 99% believe.   They're simply too busy providing you with a job to give a shit.

They also know it's not true.  They know that you could be a part of the 1% as quickly as you chose to be...as they chose to be.  By sacrifice, in many cases.

The reason why they don't spend a whole lot of discomfort with this issue is because they're doing something.  They're making decisions and investments that provide jobs.  Maybe not as many as you'd prefer at the moment, but far more in the last 12 months than you'll provide in your entire lifetime.  They devote a great deal of money and effort to that cause.  Why?  Because it's profitable to do so.

On a (vastly) smaller scale, why do you buy gas for your car to get to work?

Because it's profitable to do so. 

Tell me something.  Why the hell aren't you buying more gas?  You're fucking the people that make gas.  They need to make a living too you know.

Except for those with severe mental incapacity, there isn't anyone on this planet who can't be part of the 1%.  The 99% clearly choose not to be.  Whether by absolute decision or by default, they chose the easier path.  Maybe they like their beer more than devotion to a goal.  Maybe they're devoted to a religious goal mandating lack.  Maybe they're just lazy.  I haven't a fucking clue and I can assure you, I won't lose one minute of sleep tonight wondering why some people choose failure over success.  It ain't my gig, nor is it my responsibility to carry anyone across the finish line just to prove it can be done.

My job is to get there first.  And if that makes me an asshole or a corporate fuck....so be it.  I can live with your derision.  (Trust me....I'll do just fine with that).

Stephen Hawking, a man in a wheelchair with ALS (Lou Gehrigs disease) who needs 3 attendants to wipe his ass, who can only type or speak with his teeth and a stylus, has gained worldwide notoriety.  He wrote a book...by himself, with his stylus about physics and black holes.  Not exactly dinner time conversation, yet he sold millions of copies to people who'd never considered reading such a book because he made it interesting.

From his wheelchair.

Using a stylus.

300 pages.

With his teeth.


What have you done lately to shake the Earth off its axis (other than to bitch about why you or others lack)?

You want to say "FUCK YOU" to these people?

To Copernicus, who devoted his life and suffered unbelievable humiliation claiming that the Earth was not the center of the universe, dying a pauper but knowing he was right? 

The Rothschild's, who changed banking in the 19th century (and made shitloads of money doing so) so you could have a credit card and a mortgage today?

Carnegie (Andrew) who in the late 1800's and early 1900's changed the face of this country by improving on the Bessemer process of making steel (and made shitloads of money doing so) which enabled rail companies to cost effectively transport goods nationwide, without which you wouldn't be sipping on that beer in your hand right now....or fresh corn from Iowa, and used the bulk of his money to establish the first libraries across the nation when books were considered priceless, and left a legacy and a bounty that exists still to this day giving out millions to people with great ideas, some of which have changed your life, some of which will change your children's lives.

You want to say "FUCK YOU" to people that changed the world by investing in YOUR future while you sit there and argue plaintively about why some have so much and so many have so little?

You're fucking with the wrong folks my friend.

These are people, the 1%, and they're largely people who have....changed the future.  Your future.  And at no expense to you, I might add.

Just so you could have one (a future), and a nice Frigidaire.

And they do it everyday, and they've done it throughout history, knowing they could lose everything.

You can be wealthy any time you want to.

(You just have to want to).

No one is stopping you.

Sorry, that isn't entirely true. 

(There is one person stopping you from achieving your best).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 12/9/2011 6:18:51 PM >

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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/9/2011 5:36:14 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

What would happen if the personal exemption was raised to the poverty line?



Huh? for everybody? Nearly 50% pay no taxes at all, so if you mean only for them, it accomplishes nothing. If you mean for everyone, It would be a huge boon to the middle class especially, but how are you going to make up the lost revenue?

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/9/2011 8:58:25 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

What would happen if the personal exemption was raised to the poverty line?


That wouldnt work because many work two jobs. One alone may have them in poverty, two may have them well out of that level.

They pay FICA, State, sometimes Local, and Federal tax. Everyone should.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/9/2011 9:58:18 PM   
FrostedFlake


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From: Centralia, Washington
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I was expecting maybe those who wound up paying less Tax would "Stimulate the Economy".

No?


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"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

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RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/9/2011 10:02:21 PM   
tazzygirl


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They wont. Because they pay bills with their refunds. That was the problem with the 300 dollar check most people got a few years back. The majority went to bills, not really extra spending. 300 was a piss in the bucket. Not enough to do anything with. It was a waste. Giving back the few bucks people spend into taxes beyond FICA wont help either. Its dribble drabs and wet stones. Better they get a refund check at the end of the year.

Companies are waiting for the economy to "turn around" before they hire. It wont "turn around" until they do hire. Its becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/9/2011 10:04:48 PM >


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/10/2011 5:57:17 AM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They wont. Because they pay bills with their refunds. That was the problem with the 300 dollar check most people got a few years back. The majority went to bills, not really extra spending. 300 was a piss in the bucket. Not enough to do anything with. It was a waste. Giving back the few bucks people spend into taxes beyond FICA wont help either. Its dribble drabs and wet stones. Better they get a refund check at the end of the year.

Companies are waiting for the economy to "turn around" before they hire. It wont "turn around" until they do hire. Its becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy.


Every point made....well said. 

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/10/2011 10:52:54 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They wont. Because they pay bills with their refunds. That was the problem with the 300 dollar check most people got a few years back. The majority went to bills, not really extra spending. 300 was a piss in the bucket. Not enough to do anything with. It was a waste. Giving back the few bucks people spend into taxes beyond FICA wont help either. Its dribble drabs and wet stones. Better they get a refund check at the end of the year.

Companies are waiting for the economy to "turn around" before they hire. It wont "turn around" until they do hire. Its becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy.


Every point made....well said. 



The last one is wrong. They arent waiting for the economy to turn around. They are waiting for the unfriendly business environment created by DC to turn around. As one of the business show pundits said, AFTER I said it here, The economy will start to turn around on November 6, 2012 when Obama is defeated and the GOP takes the Senate.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/10/2011 10:53:28 AM >


_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/10/2011 11:43:35 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They wont. Because they pay bills with their refunds. That was the problem with the 300 dollar check most people got a few years back. The majority went to bills, not really extra spending. 300 was a piss in the bucket. Not enough to do anything with. It was a waste. Giving back the few bucks people spend into taxes beyond FICA wont help either. Its dribble drabs and wet stones. Better they get a refund check at the end of the year.

Companies are waiting for the economy to "turn around" before they hire. It wont "turn around" until they do hire. Its becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy.


Every point made....well said. 




A good analogy for what`s going would be a crime group,let`s call them banksters.

Well,the "banksters" went out and bet and lost about $17 trillion in in "investments" and are broke.

With a gun to your head,the banksters and republicans say you have to bail them out.If not,the economy and life as you know it, will collapse.(that`s what shrub told us early '08')

They don`t care where the money comes from so they make you(under threat of an economic depression/ruin)borrow the money and make you give it to the banksters to bail them out.

Then......the thumb breakers in the form of republicans come along and tell you that you have to pay back the "loan".

And if you don`t pay back "the loan" and agree to let the banksters fleece you again and again and again...........they are going to deliberately stifle the economy.

Jesus.....even mobsters aren`t that ruthless.


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/10/2011 12:09:17 PM   
tazzygirl


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We keep hearing about this "fear' businesses have. Who has this "fear"? Small business? I cant blame them. This economy sucks. Many of those business owners lively hoods depends on their direct sales with J Q Public. Restaurants, Bars, Car Dealerships, Fashion, Jewelry, Grocery... the list goes on and on. Corporations can weather some bumps. They have contracts with other corporations, with small businesses, with government. The independent flower shop down the street doesnt have a hope in hell against them.

To a corporation that lets go 3000 employees, its cost saving measures. Take a manufacturer that lets go 300 out of a community. The company will save 800 jobs that way (this is hypothetical). Those 800 are grateful. The small businesses in that community just got dealt a crippling blow. Do corporations know this? Of course. These decisions are not made lightly, or I would hope they are not.

A few corporations doing this... most can weather that storm. That hasnt been the situation this time. Massive layoffs hit, many communities hurt, many small businesses went under as a result. For proof.. look at the banking industry alone... the number of banks that went under were amazing. Take a look around your communities. Many small businesses are gone. Some have been replaced. Some never will be.

When those businesses went under, the small ones, because the larger ones had to lay off, more people were laid off as a result. Maybe only 10 in one, 15 in the next, 4 in a third. They quickly add up.

So, corporations laid off in massive amounts. Small businesses closed and laid off even more. Banks went under. Prices went up. The government went further into debt.

These are indisputable.. all a matter of record.

What do we need to do to get out of this mess? Create jobs. Job creation hires people. People with jobs spend money. Money goes into the tills of large and small businesses alike. Making more money, more jobs... I like that cycle.

Is there a limit? of course. Have we reached that limit? Hardly.

What we have is corporations making political decisions harming everyone down the line. Small business owners see this. Communities see this. People see this. Voters see this.

The fear is only that the Republicans wont regain the office and both houses, resulting in the top tier paying more into a system they have a iron clad fist around. It reminds me of a child stomping their foot and pouting because they were just told Dad lost his job and their allowance is about to be cut short.

In effect, business is creating an environment they claim to be fearful of.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/10/2011 12:14:57 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They wont. Because they pay bills with their refunds. That was the problem with the 300 dollar check most people got a few years back. The majority went to bills, not really extra spending. 300 was a piss in the bucket. Not enough to do anything with. It was a waste. Giving back the few bucks people spend into taxes beyond FICA wont help either. Its dribble drabs and wet stones. Better they get a refund check at the end of the year.

Companies are waiting for the economy to "turn around" before they hire. It wont "turn around" until they do hire. Its becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy.


Every point made....well said. 



The last one is wrong. They arent waiting for the economy to turn around. They are waiting for the unfriendly business environment created by DC to turn around. As one of the business show pundits said, AFTER I said it here, The economy will start to turn around on November 6, 2012 when Obama is defeated and the GOP takes the Senate.

Lies.

Just for fun, why don't you name or link to anything the Obama administration has done that has created an unfriendly business climate.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/10/2011 12:20:20 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

We keep hearing about this "fear' businesses have. Who has this "fear"? Small business? I cant blame them. This economy sucks. Many of those business owners lively hoods depends on their direct sales with J Q Public. Restaurants, Bars, Car Dealerships, Fashion, Jewelry, Grocery... the list goes on and on. Corporations can weather some bumps. They have contracts with other corporations, with small businesses, with government. The independent flower shop down the street doesnt have a hope in hell against them.

To a corporation that lets go 3000 employees, its cost saving measures. Take a manufacturer that lets go 300 out of a community. The company will save 800 jobs that way (this is hypothetical). Those 800 are grateful. The small businesses in that community just got dealt a crippling blow. Do corporations know this? Of course. These decisions are not made lightly, or I would hope they are not.

A few corporations doing this... most can weather that storm. That hasnt been the situation this time. Massive layoffs hit, many communities hurt, many small businesses went under as a result. For proof.. look at the banking industry alone... the number of banks that went under were amazing. Take a look around your communities. Many small businesses are gone. Some have been replaced. Some never will be.

When those businesses went under, the small ones, because the larger ones had to lay off, more people were laid off as a result. Maybe only 10 in one, 15 in the next, 4 in a third. They quickly add up.

So, corporations laid off in massive amounts. Small businesses closed and laid off even more. Banks went under. Prices went up. The government went further into debt.

These are indisputable.. all a matter of record.

What do we need to do to get out of this mess? Create jobs. Job creation hires people. People with jobs spend money. Money goes into the tills of large and small businesses alike. Making more money, more jobs... I like that cycle.

Is there a limit? of course. Have we reached that limit? Hardly.

What we have is corporations making political decisions harming everyone down the line. Small business owners see this. Communities see this. People see this. Voters see this.

The fear is only that the Republicans wont regain the office and both houses, resulting in the top tier paying more into a system they have a iron clad fist around. It reminds me of a child stomping their foot and pouting because they were just told Dad lost his job and their allowance is about to be cut short.

In effect, business is creating an environment they claim to be fearful of.



Waiting for the business cycle to come back around is one good reason.Fair enough.

Holding out for b/c one want`s to pollute more or make riskier wall-street bets with other people`s money or not pay their taxes like the republicans want, is not a good reason.

I think we can discourage that.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/10/2011 12:23:42 PM   
tazzygirl


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There is no business cycle to come back around if businesses refuse to hire because they are waiting for a better business climate.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/10/2011 12:38:51 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

What would happen if the personal exemption was raised to the poverty line?



Huh? for everybody? Nearly 50% pay no taxes at all, so if you mean only for them, it accomplishes nothing. If you mean for everyone, It would be a huge boon to the middle class especially, but how are you going to make up the lost revenue?


No taxes at all huh?

They don't pay any sales tax, Property tax, utility tax, state income tax, Alcohol tax, tobacco tax, Gas tax, personal property tax, automobile tax, ammunition tax, building permit tax, Drivers license tax, Dog license tax, Telephone user tax, Hunting and fishing license tax, Garbage tax, heating oil tax, lodging tax, marriage license tax, professional privelege tax, Real estate Tax, Deed tax and several dozen more.

Come on man, you're smarter than that. Next time Foxnews.com or the Drudge report feeds you some pablum to eat, you would do well to examine it before you swallow. I might just be full of Santorum. http://spreadingsantorum.com/

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Capital Strike?!? - 12/10/2011 12:40:59 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Please quit listening to the "they pay no tax" rhetoric. Its used to derail, nothing more.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
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