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RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 5:33:59 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Owner is just too funny!

"Hey Owner, did you hear Obama shot two twelve year old girls!!??"
Owner, ..."They pulled a knife on him!!"

"Then, he was driving his sports car and hit a little boy!"
Owner; "He didn't see the little bastard!!" "It was dark!"
"It was one in the afternoon."
"Owner; then he must have been wearing dark clothing!!"

Boy, once The People get rid of Oblunder in November what will the "fanny washers" do?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 5:51:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Care to place a wager on that pops? And Im not talking money.

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Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 5:59:03 PM   
BanthaSamantha


Posts: 261
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline 		Gawd, tazzygirl. You're so out of touch with regular people.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 6:04:34 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Im rich that way.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BanthaSamantha)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 7:24:28 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		How about the guy from Milwaukee that admitted on channel 12 news that he signed 80 + recall Walker petitions ? No fraud here either.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 7:31:19 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Did I say that was no fraud?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 7:49:08 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

We're not talking about food-stamps, social security or alcohol and beverage control laws.

We're talking about voting, and how vote fraud is a non-existent issue, and how in a state with rigid controls, actually lowers security.


We are talking about who is supposed to have ID already, so having it for voting is no burden. But youre too fucking stupid to figure that out. In a state without rigid voting controls fraud is the order of the day. Witness Russia and the Middle East.

_____________________________

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gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 7:50:14 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Turns out that Obama didnt have enough valid petition signatures to make the Indiana ballot. Yeah, there's no need for photo ID.


Are you advocating a law that mandates showing photo ID in order to sign a petition?


No, just at the polls. However posting scans of the petitions as is being proposed sounds like a good idea.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 8:25:14 PM   
BanthaSamantha


Posts: 261
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No, just at the polls.


I don't know if I like that idea entirely.

One can't pass a law mandating ID at the polls and call it a day. It costs a fair deal of money in order to pay for the constitutionally mandated programs meant to increase voter awareness and education on the policy. Likewise, it costs money to retrain poll workers, expand hours at the DMV and records offices, and for supplies to make the influx of voter ID cards. Some of these are essentially one time costs, but others will be yearly costs that will be burdened by already cash-strapped states.

Likewise, remember that a photo ID requirement only targets a very specific sliver of potential voter fraud. It is a slice that, for one, doesn't happen that much. There is very little evidence of significant fraud in which a person tries to vote under a different name or votes under the same name in more than one district. Secondly, this very specific type of fraud is incredibly inefficient, especially in relation to the jail time it threatens. Every single vote is worth a sentence up to five years. Additionally, since casting illegal ballots in this way doesn't know party affiliation, any effect it has will essentially wash out.

Overall, you have a situation where you're spending taxpayer money to fix a problem that really isn't a problem to begin with. Combine that with the fact that these laws do absolutely nothing to deal with actual substantial threats to the legitimacy of our elections (shoddy electronic ballots, sloppy paper ballot procedures, lost and rediscovered ballots, ballot stuffing, etc.), and you have a law that really isn't a very good idea.

(there is also the disenfranchisement consequences of a voter ID law, but I've ignored that in the point I made. That's another topic for another time.)

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 8:34:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No, just at the polls.


I don't know if I like that idea entirely.

One can't pass a law mandating ID at the polls and call it a day. It costs a fair deal of money in order to pay for the constitutionally mandated programs meant to increase voter awareness and education on the policy. Likewise, it costs money to retrain poll workers, expand hours at the DMV and records offices, and for supplies to make the influx of voter ID cards. Some of these are essentially one time costs, but others will be yearly costs that will be burdened by already cash-strapped states.

Likewise, remember that a photo ID requirement only targets a very specific sliver of potential voter fraud. It is a slice that, for one, doesn't happen that much. There is very little evidence of significant fraud in which a person tries to vote under a different name or votes under the same name in more than one district. Secondly, this very specific type of fraud is incredibly inefficient, especially in relation to the jail time it threatens. Every single vote is worth a sentence up to five years. Additionally, since casting illegal ballots in this way doesn't know party affiliation, any effect it has will essentially wash out.

Overall, you have a situation where you're spending taxpayer money to fix a problem that really isn't a problem to begin with. Combine that with the fact that these laws do absolutely nothing to deal with actual substantial threats to the legitimacy of our elections (shoddy electronic ballots, sloppy paper ballot procedures, lost and rediscovered ballots, ballot stuffing, etc.), and you have a law that really isn't a very good idea.

(there is also the disenfranchisement consequences of a voter ID law, but I've ignored that in the point I made. That's another topic for another time.)


It may not happen much in your opinion, but in an era where a handful of votes in one state can swing an election, 1 fraudulent vote is 1 too many. And disenfranchisement is a canard.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 8:51:11 PM   
BanthaSamantha


Posts: 261
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


It may not happen much in your opinion, but in an era where a handful of votes in one state can swing an election, 1 fraudulent vote is 1 too many.


One murder is one too many, so is one robbery, one rape, and one assault. If we spent collossal amounts of money and invested massive manpower, I'm sure we could prevent every single one of these crimes. Unfortunately, it would be a ridiculously massive waste of resources on a hugely inefficient endeavor.

And that is my beef with Voter ID laws. They are an incredibly inefficient waste of resources. It would be folly to believe that they make any appreciable effect at all on voter fraud, let alone one that would prevent every single illegitimate vote from being cast. It is a romantic thought, but it is no more realistic than preventing every single murder.

quote:

And disenfranchisement is a canard.


There's a reason I didn't address the subject in my post.

< Message edited by BanthaSamantha -- 12/11/2011 8:55:38 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 8:58:18 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


It may not happen much in your opinion, but in an era where a handful of votes in one state can swing an election, 1 fraudulent vote is 1 too many.


One murder is one too many, so is one robbery, one rape, and one assault. If we spent collossal amounts of money and invested massive manpower, I'm sure we could prevent every single one of these crimes. Unfortunately, it would be a ridiculously massive waste of resources on a hugely inefficient endeavor.

And that is my beef with Voter ID laws. They are an incredibly inefficient waste of resources. It would be folly to believe that they make any appreciable effect at all on voter fraud, let alone one that would prevent every single illegitimate vote from being cast. It is a romantic thought, but it is no more realistic than preventing every single murder.

quote:

And disenfranchisement is a canard.


There's a reason I didn't address the subject in my post.

Yeah,let`s have a cop for every person(two for cons) to follow them around 24/7.....because one crime is one to many.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/11/2011 8:59:06 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 9:49:58 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel


Photo ID requirements do little more than erect road blocks to the poor, elderly and disabled being able to vote at all. 



Bullshit. You need ID to collect welfare, SS checks or buy beer.

But you will not have any ID at all if you've never had one and never had a state issued birth certificate. If there is any irregularity it could get very expensive simply to exercise your franchise.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 12/11/2011 9:50:54 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 10:20:23 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

How about the guy from Milwaukee that admitted on channel 12 news that he signed 80 + recall Walker petitions ? No fraud here either.
So cite the Title, Chapter, Section of the Wisconsin Code which states that signing a petition multiple times is fraud.

C'mon, I know you can do it.


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 10:22:19 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel


Photo ID requirements do little more than erect road blocks to the poor, elderly and disabled being able to vote at all. 



Bullshit. You need ID to collect welfare, SS checks or buy beer.

But you will not have any ID at all if you've never had one and never had a state issued birth certificate. If there is any irregularity it could get very expensive simply to exercise your franchise.


Sorry, but thats bullshit. If someone has never had a need to correct those issues, then correct them to vote. If its too expensive, still better to lose the one in a million who dont think its important enough than risk fraud. Voting is not a right under the Constitution, it is left to the states to determine who is qualified to vote, so it is a privilege granted by the states (subject to non-discrimination, and those without ID are not a protected class last time I looked).

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/11/2011 10:37:49 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 10:34:28 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Interesting that the whackos in the GOP who don`t want government IDing people or even a census count....

http://www.politicususa.com/en/Bachmann-Beck

But are all over voter IDs.




_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 10:52:35 PM   
BanthaSamantha


Posts: 261
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

How about the guy from Milwaukee that admitted on channel 12 news that he signed 80 + recall Walker petitions ? No fraud here either.
So cite the Title, Chapter, Section of the Wisconsin Code which states that signing a petition multiple times is fraud.

C'mon, I know you can do it.



Wis. Stat. § 12.13(3) No person may: (a) Falsify any information in respect to or fraudulently deface or destroy a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy or petition for an election, including a recall petition or petition for a referendum; or file or receive for filing a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy or any such petition, knowing any part is falsely made.

Wis. Stat. § 9.10(1)(b) Except as provided in par. (c), a petition for recall of an officer shall be signed by electors equal to at least 25% of the vote cast for the office of governor at the last election within the same district or territory as that of the officeholder being recalled.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 11:01:21 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		"Owner, did you hear that Obama was driving a big eighteen wheeler after having three beers and pushed a school bus off the side of the road?"
Owner; "Windgust!"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 11:03:59 PM   
BanthaSamantha


Posts: 261
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


If its too expensive, still better to lose the one in a million who dont think its important enough than risk fraud. Voting is not a right under the Constitution


Supreme Court case law would disagree with this interpretation. While there is no direct right to vote in the constitution, once a state grants the right to vote, it is compelled to adhere to the constitution's equal protection clause. Additionally, it must adhere to the 24th amendment, the amendment that forbids poll taxes in any form. Once a state grants its citizens the right to vote, it is absolutely barred from implementing any poll tax.

The Supreme Court has previously held that requiring a non-free form of identification counts as a poll tax and is unconstitutional. They have even said that the requirement of a free ID can be a poll tax if the supporting documents necessary for getting it (Birth certificate, etc.) are not free. Basically, if the state charges any non-incidental cost in order to vote, get an ID to vote, or get documents for an ID to vote, the charge is a poll tax and is unconstitutional.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: More Democrat registration fraud - 12/11/2011 11:20:32 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BanthaSamantha


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


If its too expensive, still better to lose the one in a million who dont think its important enough than risk fraud. Voting is not a right under the Constitution


Supreme Court case law would disagree with this interpretation. While there is no direct right to vote in the constitution, once a state grants the right to vote, it is compelled to adhere to the constitution's equal protection clause. Additionally, it must adhere to the 24th amendment, the amendment that forbids poll taxes in any form. Once a state grants its citizens the right to vote, it is absolutely barred from implementing any poll tax.

The Supreme Court has previously held that requiring a non-free form of identification counts as a poll tax and is unconstitutional. They have even said that the requirement of a free ID can be a poll tax if the supporting documents necessary for getting it (Birth certificate, etc.) are not free. Basically, if the state charges any non-incidental cost in order to vote, get an ID to vote, or get documents for an ID to vote, the charge is a poll tax and is unconstitutional.


They specifically agreed in Bush v Gore.

The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College.

Once the state decides to use a vote then the protections you cite apply...but they can set whatever other qualifications they want, such as felons....or those without ID. And if an ID requirement were challenged, the state could withdraw voting altogether. As I said, a privilege, not a right, which could not be revoked.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/11/2011 11:21:50 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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