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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 8:09:30 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear

Would someone please explain to me why it hasn't come up yet that rape is not a sexual act but one of hatred and rage?  Rape has nothing whatsoever to do with sex. 






I did: Post 124;

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct


I'll admit to some hyperbole here. But the recent headlines of one in five women will be raped in her lifetime implies that one in five men are rapists. Would you go out on a date with a guy knowing that there's a one in five chance he's a rapist?


Sam


Sam, it implies no such thing.
Most men who rape are repeat offenders.
This isn't a case of his penis accidentally finding it's way into her vagina.
Rape doesn't accidentally occur and it is usually done with premeditation.

Rape is not about sex.
Rape is about power and control and exerting it in a very personal way.

As a woman who was raped, I can tell you that I have never wondered while considering dating someone: "I wonder if he ever raped anyone?"

Maybe some other women do wonder, but part of surviving rape is knowing that there are huge differences between the men who do and the men who don't commit these acts of violence against women.



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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 8:12:49 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		I don't accept your premise that violence can be present; absent a physical act. I guess I could be wrong but, I am almost positive that a physical act is the only thing that can be violent.

Rape is, indeed, a crime of violence, anger, control, and humiliation. Writing words on a paper is not. Like it or not, it's free speech.

As much as I detest what some people or groups have to say (The Nazis and the KKK come readily to mind), I have to protect their right to spew their vile message if I want to maintain my right to voice my opinion (which they would find just as distasteful).

Like it or not, this list is a form of free (protected ) speech; as atrocious as it is, as without humor or shred of human decency as we may find it; it is speech . As I stated, very early on in this thread, if someone were to act upon this list, it would become a crime. An action is required for this to be anything but really poor taste (and an indictment on our parenting skills as a society and this particular instiutution of higher learning).



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 12/20/2011 8:13:31 AM >

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 8:20:01 AM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		Since I'm in for a penny, in for a pound on this one- meaning I can't possibly piss anyone else off...

I did a little digging to illustrate the disparity in statistics I'm talking about.

There's a DOJ report going around- I'll dig out a link to it and add it where the estimate of the authors is that a large university of 10,000 students probably has 350 rapes/yr. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/205521.pdf

The Clery act has forced schools to list crimes committed on campus, which of course includes rape. Rape is divided into forcible rape and non-forcible rape (statutory rape and incest).

One school that gets high marks for complying with Clery requirements- going above and beyond by listing both on campus and off campus rapes- is UMass Amherst. This school also gets good marks for its rape counseling center. This is a school of 27,000 students- so by the DOJ estimates, there should be 1,000 rapes/yr give or take.

Here is the report filed by UMass to comply with Clery requirements: http://www.scribd.com/doc/67332919/UMass-Amherst-2010-Security-Report

The statistics on rape are listed at the end of the report and cover 2008-2010. In 2010, there were 6 forcible rapes, 3 on campus, 3 off. I think there were 10 rapes in each of the previous years- so the school may be making headway at reducing the number of rapes.
A rape that wasn't part of the statistics became something of a cause celebre- I'll see if I can dig up a link since it involved an alum, not a student. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/25/umass-rapist-went-unpunis_n_477027.html

Consider- what happens if 1,000 rapes/yr get reported on UMass Amherst. Will each rape case be dealt with carefully? Or will the mind numbing nature of dealing with 1,000 rapes/yr overwhelm the people involved so that they begin to act callously towards the victims?

This is the problem with the statistics I'm seeing- the sensational statistics which make headline grabbing stories about some one in 5 women will be raped on campus, and the reality of a handful of rapes- each which leads to outrage and calls for reform.

What's the better outcome? Having rape statistics that probably under report the crime by a factor of two to five- or having the system gets swamped with literally a hundred more rapes than are getting reported today? Which one reflects reality- or doesn't that matter?


Sam


PS- Angelika- yes, you're quite correct- I made a bad assumption.



< Message edited by samboct -- 12/20/2011 8:50:23 AM >

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 8:24:12 AM   
Azonier


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Status: offline 		Human, most rapes are not reported, anywhere.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 8:27:31 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		very true, Az.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 8:36:29 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

I don't accept your premise that violence can be present; absent a physical act. I guess I could be wrong but, I am almost positive that a physical act is the only thing that can be violent.


Mental abuse is considered violence as well. PTSD is a very real diagnosis and can be caused by feeling you are being targeted as a potential victim.

quote:

Rape is, indeed, a crime of violence, anger, control, and humiliation. Writing words on a paper is not. Like it or not, it's free speech.


I can tell you I am going to kill you. Its freely spoken... but its not protected. And, yes, even the written word is a form of violence if it involves mentally abusing someone.

quote:

Like it or not, this list is a form of free (protected ) speech; as atrocious as it is, as without humor or shred of human decency as we may find it; it is speech


To state you hate a group of people for whatever reason is protected. To state you want to commit a crime against a group of people is a grey area in that no one is named specifically, but its not always guaranteed to be protected. Stating you want to commit a crime against a specific person can be considered communicating a threat.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 8:40:31 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

forcible rape and non-forcible rape (statutory rape and incest).


Since when did non-forcible rape mean statutory rape or incest?

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 247
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 8:45:13 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

I am sorry I wasn't able to do a better job for you ladies.


You did just fine.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 8:59:33 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct



One school that gets high marks for complying with Clery requirements- going above and beyond by listing both on campus and off campus rapes- is UMass Amherst. This school also gets good marks for its rape counseling center. This is a school of 27,000 students- so by the DOJ estimates, there should be 1,000 rapes/yr give or take.

Here is the report filed by UMass to comply with Clery requirements: http://www.scribd.com/doc/67332919/UMass-Amherst-2010-Security-Report


Sam


PS- Angelika- yes, you're quite correct- I made a bad assumption.




Thank you Sam for mentioning it.

I do want to mention that while it does list drug and alcohol law violations, it doesn't mention how many cases of alcohol poisoning there are.

And when someone uses a date-rape drug, the person who ingested it often has little or no memory of what happened.

Many rapes are not reported; a fact you already acknowledge.

There are unclear legal boundaries as to where coerced sex falls under.

Just some of the things that are missing from the bigger picture.


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30 fluffy points!

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 9:01:43 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

forcible rape and non-forcible rape (statutory rape and incest).


Since when did non-forcible rape mean statutory rape or incest?



It is part of the FBI's definition; they are unclear about what the other circumstances are.
http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/how_legally_define_rape.htm

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 9:15:05 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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Status: offline 		Just as an FYI, because statistics about rape keep popping up in this thread:

BJS Activities on Measuring Rape and Sexual Assault
The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) has initiated several projects to identify, develop and test the best methods for collecting self-report data on rape and sexual assault. In June 2011, BJS charged an expert panel from the National Research Council's Committee on National Statistics (CNSTAT) to examine conceptual and methodological issues surrounding survey statistics on rape and sexual assault and to recommend to BJS the best methods for obtaining such statistics on an ongoing basis (Project Summary). In September 2011, BJS made a competitive award to Westat, Inc. to develop and test two different survey designs for collecting self-report data on rape and sexual assault. One design is to be an optimal design identified by the CNSTAT panel and the other will be similar to designs used in the public health approach for measuring rape and sexual assault (Project Narrative). Estimates from these two designs will be compared to data from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). For the most recent data on rape and sexual assault, see Criminal Victimization, 2010.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 9:21:29 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

What's the better outcome? Having rape statistics that probably under report the crime by a factor of two to five- or having the system gets swamped with literally a hundred more rapes than are getting reported today? Which one reflects reality- or doesn't that matter?


Your thought process baffles me.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 9:37:05 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

It is part of the FBI's definition; they are unclear about what the other circumstances are.
http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/how_legally_define_rape.htm


I saw that on the survey too, angelica. Still does not make it accurate. Statutory rape, yes, but incest?

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 4:09:56 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		A 69-year-old German man who had sex with his daughter more than 500 times and fathered three children with her has been cleared of rape.

Adolf Bergbauer was sentenced to just two years and eight months in prison for incest, after a judge threw out the rape charge.

Bergbaeur alleged his daughter, whom he began having sex with at the age of 12, always propositioned him, news.com.au reported.

He could not be charged with statutory rape because it occurred more than 20 years ago.

His daughter, now aged 46, vehemently denied the claims and told a Nuremberg court he had regularly beaten her and threatened to kill her if she told anyone.

Media outlets have nicknamed Bergbaeur the “German Frizl”, in reference to the Austrian rapist Josef Frizl, who kept his daughter Elisabeth locked in an underground dungeon for 24 years and fathered six children with her.

Two of the three sons Bergbaeur's daughter bore her father died, while the third survives.

The case only came to light after the woman was convicted of blackmailing the wife of a doctor she blamed for the disability of one of her sons, the Daily Mail reported.

Prosecutors had demanded a 14-year sentence for the ordeal he inflicted on his daughter but the court ruled it was impossible to prove the relationship was not consensual and highlighted inconsistencies in her testimony.

A spokesman for a rape crisis centre in Berlin told the Scotsman: “This is a shocking judgement, for the woman, for women everywhere and for justice.

“What was this judge thinking? That a 12-year-old girl can make these kind of choices?”
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/20/german-fritzl-adolf-bergbauer-sex-_n_1159891.html?ref=canada&ir=Canada

I feel sick


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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 4:23:45 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Isnt it nice to know that there are people who feel this kind of relationship is "non-forced"?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 4:26:53 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		im not in a good place with this at all, im wanting biblical justice and non consensual punishment.
Unfortunately the judges attitude is way to prevalent in way to many minds.


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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 4:31:34 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I have no doubt one of the "gentlemen" will be along to inform us that our "rush" to judgement on this old geezer is unwarranted and unfounded.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 4:38:25 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		N they wonder why rape is so underreported

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 5:16:00 PM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		"I have no doubt one of the "gentlemen" will be along to inform us that our "rush" to judgement on this old geezer is unwarranted and unfounded. "

I'm assuming your joking here....

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/20/2011 5:20:54 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		First, it wasnt Lucy who said that, it was me.

Second, why would you consider that a joke?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 260
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