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Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 3:47:20 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Another thread about the more edgy side of BDSM inspired me to start a thread on the lighter side of things.

Why do so many of the old timers who had some sort of relationship with the old guard, need to teach us the proper way to spank someone? Why do they constantly insist that anyone that plays without their approval or a good mentor will do serious harm to someone? Do they actually believe that subs are so fragile? Do they really believe that many people die or end up severely injured from a spanking or flogging?
Whilst rope bondage and some more edgy play requires you knowing and understanding the anatomy, for flogging and spanking you pretty much don't need to know any anatomy.
I know a ton about the anatomy, and you aren't going to damage a kidney or break part of the spine with your leather flogger.

At 16 I had a Very open minded kinky boyfriend. We made up our own floggers, used belts on one another. Nobody showed us how to do it. Neither of us came to any permanent harm. It was great fun and we were never hindered by someone watching from the side lines and pointing out that we weren't doing it right!
20 years later I found myself suddenly being told that I should attend flogging and caning workshops 'WHAT'??? That all those earth mounds on the way to the BDSM club are the graves of those who didn't survive the flogging!

I have never taken flogging, spanking and caning workshops seriously. How about you?
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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 4:02:58 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		From what I've seen/heard by listening to "lifestylers", if one does not recieve the proper training and display the proper certificates, they must not be "worthy".

Seriously, though. There are things in which I am interested that would require some instruction on my part. I would not, at this point, attempt fire play because I really wouldn't know what I'm doing and things could go horribly wrong. Likewise; electrical play (although I have some knowledge, there) would require some education on my part. I have never wielded a single tail.

You specifically referenced submissives/bottoms ("Do they actually believe that subs are so fragile?") in your query so, I hope I don't misunderstand. I wouldn't think that masochism would require training but, perhaps training in being able to recognize for themselves what actual physical limits might be.

I admit that it isn't often but I have witnessed scenes that have caused more damage than the bottom had been prepared for, turning what might have been a pleasurable experience into one that is less so.

I agree that the air of superiority that seems to accompany the kind of statements you mentioned is a bit troubling but I think there is a need for some passing on of information in this lifestyle.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 4:22:45 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		I think that based upon what I've seen there is an awful lot of chickens that like to run about screaming "The sky is falling the sky is falling!!!" They will ALWAYS find a reason to do so. If you mock them for their silliness, they will drag out scores of examples, cite studies, quote news articles, and tell about their own brush with death as a counter point to your mocking. The reality is ( to quote a certain comic ) "You can't fix stupid."

Certainly there are things that require a certain finesse. There are things that require knowledge. There are things that just purely should not be done by stupid people. All of the finesse and knowledge in the world will not fix stupid. Stupid people do stupid things. Stupid people dearly LOVE to blame others for the consequences of their stupidity. Sometimes stupid people are killed and/or damaged because of stupidity.

Smarter people know their own limitations. They know to look for people that are even smarter to teach them if they feel they are too limited in a certain area. Smarter people tend to make a lot less stupid mistakes. Just because a person has been around and perhaps doing something for x number of years does not necessarily make them a smarter person. Just stupidly lucky.

Such is life.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/19/2011 4:25:42 AM >

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 5:05:12 AM   
MariaB


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Status: offline 		The thing is, my gran weighed in at over 250lbs and when I was a nipper and weighed less than 50lbs she often gave me a good whacking. Even with all that weight behind her I never ended up seriously hurt or permanently damaged. I don't know how she did it, I mean she never warmed me up or took classes from someone
I have gone on to flog guys who weigh 250lbs and I'm well less than half their weight. Common sense tells me that there are certain places I don't hit but I had that common sense even when I was 16 and all these years later that common sense has stayed with me. All this bull about not giving a wrap with a flogger has me rolling my eyes. I love giving wraps and I give them very deliberately. What I don't do is juggle the floggers, perhaps if I did, I would need lessons but to me a flogger is to give a flogging and not some arty performance over some subs ass.
LaTigresse, I agree there are stupid people. There is a woman who presently attends a club we frequent who is just that. People keep telling her that whopping someone round the ear with a flogger is never a good idea but whop them round the ear she still does! Besides taking the flogger off her and telling her to sit down and have a serious word with herself, she is too stupid to realize that if she carries on she's going to perforate someones ear drum or take someones eye out. What she lacks is common sense and I don't believe that most people lack that.

Satyr, I agree that certain things definitely need some guidance. Blood play, ropes, electric, fire and medical are amongst those that I would definitely recommend workshops or mentors.

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 5:06:29 AM   
BoxwineForBrunch


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Status: offline 		anyone who doesn't subscribe to the True Path is a nihilist, and nihilists are the absolute worst. in the immortal words of the 20th century's greatest philosopher, walter sobchak, "nihilists? fuck me! i mean say what you will about the tenets of national socialism, dude, but at least it's an ethos."

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 5:16:30 AM   
sheisreeds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
Why do so many of the old timers who had some sort of relationship with the old guard, need to teach us the proper way to spank someone? Why do they constantly insist that anyone that plays without their approval or a good mentor will do serious harm to someone? Do they actually believe that subs are so fragile? Do they really believe that many people die or end up severely injured from a spanking or flogging?

I have never taken flogging, spanking and caning workshops seriously. How about you?


I wouldn't be surprised if this was the mentality in some communities, but not where I hang out. Though to be fair, my kink community came out of the young people in the main local org wanting their own voice and place.

Anyways we tend to view classes as just a way to communicate new and different ideas. Intro classes especially are designed to make the community and the things we do feel comfortable and safe for new people.

The only class that at times is required is a dungeon 101 to prevent moronic behavior at play parties, like wandering into scenes, or not using safewords.

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 5:21:19 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		Only rocket science is rocket science.

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 5:22:41 AM   
Arienos


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quote:

Another thread about the more edgy side of BDSM inspired me to start a thread on the lighter side of things.


My introduction too and later indoctrination into so-called submission came at the hand of a German woman while stationed in Germany. She identified very dominant traits in me and she and her husband spent endless weeks and months teaching and training me in widely varying techniques of tool and toy handling. Even though I differed to her in eager obedience it was important to them for me to know how to use a single tail without breaking skin while knowing how to carve my initials in a back if that was what was agreed upon. Or, how to use canes millimeter by millimeter without striking the previous location. Often I was confused but somehow trusted their experience and years later think of the great service they gave me as I watch some of the bungling’s I see in clubs today.

< Message edited by Arienos -- 12/19/2011 5:24:27 AM >

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 6:18:03 AM   
MariaB


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		To be honest Arienos, when it comes to spanking, flogging and caning, there are very few bungling's I see in clubs. The woman I mentioned above in an exception but then she's as mad as a March hare.
I'm by no means new to this. Over the years I have probably seen thousands of people play. Only once have I seen someone seriously hurt and that was from rope cutting off her circulation.
When I ran a BDSM club I got sick to death of alarmists telling me that so and so was flogging or caning that woman over there dangerously. A quick check with those involved would prove that she was in seventh heaven. People stand around in clubs observing others playing and being judgmental. They are the ones holding up the banner saying,
'All Dom/mes and wannabes must learn the proper techniques of spanking, flogging. If they fail to comply they will be labelled as unsafe and all subs/ bottoms will be informed'

There are too many alarmists with a story to tell. I remember when I first came onto the scene and started hearing all these horror stories. All these years later I have to wonder if I'm walking round with my eyes closed and my hands over my ears because I just don't see them happening.

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 7:01:17 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I don't see a lot of "bungling" but I do see godawful technique. I am snobby enough to sneer at that, if the person is anything but a tyro. PRACTICE and LEARN. There are all kinds of ways to finesse even simple techniques, so yes, I do enjoy watching experts and hearing what they have to say. I was lucky enough to learn flogging from a really talented person and it made a world of difference. I will never be able to write my name with a singletail (thanks, lousy vision!) but again, having expert advice: BIG HELP.

I remember ages ago kibitzing in a far corner with a pal, watching some chick go I swear for EVERY "bad idea" area. Maybe she was doing it on purpose? I don't know. No one died.

I have seen stupid stupid shit, and still no one died. The only OMG moments I have had as a DM--all two of them--were perpetrated by the "national presenter" kinds of people who you would expect to know better. ~shrug~



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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 7:21:24 AM   
OsideGirl


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From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
PRACTICE and LEARN. There are all kinds of ways to finesse even simple techniques, so yes, I do enjoy watching experts and hearing what they have to say. I was lucky enough to learn flogging from a really talented person and it made a world of difference.
I agree. I've seen some really bad cane technique as well.

I will say that I usually recommend a mentor, but more as a guide into the local community.


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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 8:13:41 AM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
I have never taken flogging, spanking and caning workshops seriously. How about you?

I've been a Domme for a matter of months & never taken workshops on any of those three things in the above quote, but I used to be a switch and my Dom at the time mentored me and taught me how to do those things. Spanking just came naturally, I mean, how difficult is that? But flogging and caning I needed some tutoring on and, of course, I felt the flogger and the cane before using them on anyone else. I always have something used on me before I will use it on someone else...I want to know how it feels and what intensity to use it at.

Since you mentioned it, I will not flog over the kidneys, I just feel it's not a good idea. We were at a play party the other night and someone butted into my scene and bitched about the redness of the masochist's arse I was spanking. She should have been paying attention to her own partner and maybe she wouldn't have been flogging her over her kidneys. But she was oblivous to her own partner and looking around at everyone & everything else as she was flogging her. Not safe in my opinion, like she was more focused on "look at me & how good I am" rather than being focused on her partner.

I won't try any anything like fire play or electrical play without taking a class, fire play especially. Fire can be dangerous. I'm a nurse and know anatomy and where the pressure points are & also have done a lot of reading by, for instance, The Two Knotty Boys, so I feel I'm safe at rope bondage. There are some things I would not try without a class or mentoring and some things I would.

That's my two cents.

NBMG

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 8:32:17 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		You just nailed why I felt the demo that I attended given by Midori was so pathetic.  I wouldn't pay to see her again if My life depended on it.  

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 8:41:13 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You just nailed why I felt the demo that I attended given by Midori was so pathetic.  I wouldn't pay to see her again if My life depended on it.  


Wow, really? Has she become the safety police all of a sudden?

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 8:42:52 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Another one who sees some ugly play, and I even enjoy going to workshops and demo's, for more on technique and ideas as much as fun and eye candy(i wanna play), but Ive found its more prevalent in america with the number of people who are willing to sue over the slightest "wrongdoing"
I never played in the UK but have done in US and canada, and the need for "covering" ones arse is a primary "need" for holders of the seminars.
I am a voyeur as well so I enjoy watching closely, trying differnt wrist flicks angles, knots and designs, ill happily bottom for someone showing how to use a single tail. Yeah the safety issue can be "repetative to the point of broing, but dont ever underestimate the "stupid" out there and theres lots of it
Good topic tho:)
different strokes for diferent folks?

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 8:47:26 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		The last event I went to was Kinky Kollege two years ago (!) and the only demos I went to were waterboarding and "Conscious Sadism" with Cleo DuBois. There was other edgy stuff that not-a-morning-person did not manage to make it to. It's a world of stuff, and a world of stupid...

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 8:52:03 AM   
Clickofheels


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Maria B? You always have other options by not listening and/or ignoring what is being said.

Regards,
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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 8:53:20 AM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
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From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You just nailed why I felt the demo that I attended given by Midori was so pathetic.  I wouldn't pay to see her again if My life depended on it.  


Wow, really? Has she become the safety police all of a sudden?

Gee, I wasn't trying to police anyone. Someone was making comments on what I was doing, though, and I was just saying she really had no room to talk.....

NBMG


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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 8:54:43 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You just nailed why I felt the demo that I attended given by Midori was so pathetic.  I wouldn't pay to see her again if My life depended on it.  


Wow, really? Has she become the safety police all of a sudden?

Gee, I wasn't trying to police anyone. Someone was making comments on what I was doing, though, and I was just saying she really had no room to talk.....

NBMG




Oh I didnt mean you, sweetie!! I am a big Midori fan, and she was not a scare tactics person in the past!

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RE: Seriously... we need to learn how to do this? - 12/19/2011 8:56:01 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
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Status: offline 		I agree, it is bizarre. I have done a lot of stuff and never took a class on kink related safety. But then again I used to dangle upsidedown over blacktop when I was a kid, after that everything is cake.


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