RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines (12/21/2011 10:23:45 PM)

quote:

To the best of my recollection, a pilots board the plane and is locked in the cockpit before anyone else boards. They do not see who boards the plane. So yes, this begs the question of "how did the pilot know who was on board?" I don't know.


Thats how I remember it too.... and thats what I mean by things arent making sense.




LafayetteLady -> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines (12/21/2011 10:31:40 PM)

I agree.  But I do have a problem with everyone instantly assuming that the pilot was wrong for what he did.  It is the plaintiff's saying they were "told" the pilot was uncomfortable, and the airline has been mum on the issue.  Something happened to create this mess.  Was it all the pilot?  Or did the Plaintiffs have something to do with it. 

I haven't even seen any passengers or people from the airport comment to reporters on the issue and that bugs me.  People are nosy fucks, so you know someone was watching what was going on, and it's surprising none have come forward to say something for one side or the other.  If there were other Muslims on the plane, why haven't they stepped forward?

Something is definately missing, and damn it!  I want to know what it is!




tazzygirl -> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines (12/21/2011 10:36:50 PM)

When you find out, let me know!




DaddySatyr -> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines (12/21/2011 11:36:11 PM)

Assuming that the pilot did say/do the things attributed to him; assuming he's as guilty as a little kid with his hand in the cookie jar, it bothers me that the airline is exposed, here.

I am quite sure that religious intolerance (or even bigotry) is not a prerequisite to employment with the airline. He made a decision and the airline is being held accountable in civil court.

That being said, I believe there's some element of "We just hit the lottery", here. If we assume the pilot's guilty and the airline fires him, they have "proven" that they are on the side of the angels. Of course, that's not the way a civil court will see it. We've become far too litigious and a society of people lining up to claim ourselves "victims". It disgusts me.



Peace and comfort,



Michael




TheFireWithinMe -> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines (12/22/2011 3:24:08 AM)

quote:

To the best of my recollection, a pilots board the plane and is locked in the cockpit before anyone else boards.  They do not see who boards the plane.  So yes, this begs the question of "how did the pilot know who was on board?"  I don't know.


Actually I've boarded planes when the cockpit was still open and the pilot and co-pilot were there. I've said hi to them. It's entirely possible that the pilot saw them board the plane.




Lucylastic -> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines (12/22/2011 4:03:35 AM)

the last time I flew into the US the pilots were at the door chatting to ground crew/attendants the cockpit definitely open, and this was a cross border flight
.These were flights into Dulles, and LaGuardia




barelynangel -> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines (12/22/2011 5:32:22 AM)

I also fly wherein pilots are greeting passengers or come in after them.  However, they could have in fact been in the cockpit due to they had already taxied away from the gate. 

Also, to clarify, i only have access to the pleadings filed with the Western District.

Finally, if you look at the Complaint tazzy posted - pretty much everything is based upon their being denied the ability to board.  Even their own story indicates two other employees were trying to get them on the flight.  So their focus is not the checks and being taken off the plane but the final incident wherein the pilot refused to let them board.   These are only parts and there are a lot of clarifications of statutes etc.

"Defendants’ actions denied the Plaintiffs boarding Flight Number 5452 to Charlotte, North Carolina..."
 
"The pilot, flight crew, gate agents, and ground security personnel for Delta Flight #5452 on May 6, 2011, were at all relevant times, agents and/or employees of Defendants. Defendants’ actions denied the Plaintiffs boarding Flight Number 5452 to Charlotte, North Carolina... "  
 
"By denying the Plaintiffs the right to board and fly with Defendants, Defendants discriminated against Plaintiffs in making and enforcement of their contract with Defendants, namely, the two (2) tickets purchased by Mr. Rahman for travel on Flight # 5452, on May 6, 2011, to Charlotte, North Carolina"
 
"This claim is authorized and instituted pursuant to the Federal Aviation Act, 49 U.S.C. § 44902, which states, in pertinent part, the Federal Aviation Act provides that ―an air carrier … may refuse to transport a passenger or property the carrier decides is, or might be, inimical to safety.‖ 49 U.S.C. § 44902(b)."
 
"In making the decision to exclude the Plaintiffs from the air craft, the Defendant’s pilot relied on: (1) the traditional clothing the Plaintiffs wore, including traditional Arab and Muslim garb; (2) the Plaintiff’s facial hair; (3) the dark-colored skin of the Plaintiffs; (4) the accented English displayed by the Plaintiffs. Nothing about the Plaintiffs’ behavior was ―inimical to safety,‖ an allegation that was asserted by the Defendants’ employees. There were no allegations by any passengers or flight staff that Plaintiffs were engaged in any suspicious behavior."
 
"Defendants denied Plaintiffs ―the full and equal enjoyment‖ of a ―place of public accommodation,‖ when they were denied the right to board the Defendant’s aircraft for Flight #5452, for which they had previously purchased two tickets. "
 
They even state that the pilot decided to turn the plane around and order them removed...

All in all, it will come down to the why the pilot denied but but more importantly what grounds he was using when he denied them access.  And the policies of Delta and the ASA.

angel




OsideGirl -> RE: 2 Muslim men kicked off flight sue airlines (12/22/2011 7:49:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

  At least another hundred people on that flight.  Why is it so easy to say they should be punished as well by having their flight cancelled?  Especially when to do so would potentially make this a very volitile issue and certainly wouldn't do the Muslim community any good.

Since we don't know all the FAA rules or the rules the airlines have governing flights, jumping to the conclusion that the airline could simply remove the pilot, cancel the entire flight, etc. is a conclusion based on assumption not fact and therefore completely without merit.


The airlines keep crews on stand by, so they could have pulled the pilot and crew and replaced them. But, the flight was already delayed by going back to the gate twice and from experience I can tell you that Delta didn't want the fall out from having the flight further delayed.




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