Different does not mean fake

Different does not mean fake (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 10:27:54 AM)
A few issues I have here is all the bashing of “fake” subs. People are people are people. When you take a look at all the work that has been done in psychology to determine all the different personality types (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, Riso-Hudson Enneagram Type Indicator, etc) and all the research on metacognition and learning styles, it is so sad to see that so many dominants expect a submissive to fit in a mould and learn at the same pace and be ready to do our bidding at our pace. I commend those who take pleasure in watching a submissive come into their own. I always adapt my style somewhat to my partner. Yes I am first and foremost attracted to a particular type of individual. I think that is natural. But when someone has the requisite amount of qualities for me to deem them a potentially good fit, I tend to want to learn all I can about them and help them find complete joy in their submission. That is what gives me joy in dominance. And more often then not, during this process, I learn something about my dominance. The simple fact that someone would identify themselves as submissive means that a part of them wants this. Our identity is one of the only things that we truly own (no wise cracks about identity theft please!) They may not be ready to explore their submissive side completely. That does not make them fake. They may have a different perception of submission then their peers. That does not make them fake. They may not want to be submissive to the world at large but rather only to one special person who will earn their trust. That is most definitely not fake. I could take this whole thread and reverse it from the other perspective about the perceived “fake” dominants. Unless you have walked a mile in a person’s shoes, I think it is not appropriate for you to make any assumptions about their degree of genuineness. - LA

afmvdp -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 11:18:34 AM)
couldn't agree more. If the leader in the relationship is unable to lead in more than one scenario, then perhaps he shouldn't be leading in the first place. ;) Like I just said in my long diatribe in the other post, way too many people are quick to state their own mindsets as reality and fact rather than merely opinion.

strongnsubmissiv -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 11:56:58 AM)
. All generalizations are false. ;P sns

LadyBeckett -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 12:58:36 PM)
It is sometimes that difference in the quality of their submission that provides the key to chemistry with their Dominant. I also agree that, and I've said this before, that there are many many submissive males and females, that are submissive to one whom they choose, and one only. To the rest of the world they are professionally/socially assertive/aggressive. quote: I always adapt my style somewhat to my partner. Yes I am first and foremost attracted to a particular type of individual. I think that is natural. But when someone has the requisite amount of qualities for me to deem them a potentially good fit, I tend to want to learn all I can about them and help them find complete joy in their submission. That is what gives me joy in dominance. And more often then not, during this process, I learn something about my dominance. As you know this has become personally true for me just recently when I agreed to meet a male who has a fetish that I've never really given much thought to as anything I'd be very interested in. We have a lot of similar interests otherwise, he is very sincere, and truthfully, right in line with what I seek in a male. I met with him and the chemistry was instant! Now I am faced with the challenges of meeting his submissive (and fetish) needs, protecting his professional and social position while doing that, and maintaining a realistic positive D/s balance, while at the same time I realize that this male is very aggressive/assertive professionally and socially. His submissive truly is a gift, and he has been very selective about who he wants to give it to. quote: If the leader in the relationship is unable to lead in more than one scenario, then perhaps he shouldn't be leading in the first place. I'm not going to agree with you on this, Jacean. There are specialists and there are generalists, who's to say one is good and the other is bad? But that brings me back to what I said at the beginning of this post. I believe it is the chemistry between the Dominant and the submissive that is the key to where the relationship will go, and how far, certainly. Oh but I'm on a (post session) high, so if I'm not making sense just move on to the next post and just overlook me for the moment...[;)]

PrincessAnne -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 1:41:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv . All generalizations are false. ;P sns Exactly, or not seeing as that is also a generalization. [>:]

GoddessJules -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 1:49:41 PM)
Preach on Sister!!!! You will never realize how much I appreciate your posts Angelika. I wish more people were like you. I will never understand why some people have to worry about others soooooo much to the point that they will write a whole post about it to bash them. But it seems that our "community" is laden with people who will sit there and judge. . .and judge. . .and judge some more. . .but if someone's ideas or thoughts diverge from their's. . .they are automatically "fake." Examples: If you accept money for your dominance (or your submission) you are automatically fake. I'm a PURE BDSMer because I do it for free!! If you don't want a fat sub. . .you gotta be a fake dom. .. nevermind the concept of preference. . .you better take on a fat sub to be considered REAL. If you ain't down with poly. . . you are DEFINITELY fake. If you aren't whipping someone til they bleed. . .you're a fake too. On the other hand. . .if you sleep with your slave. . .you aren't a real Mistress of Master. If you are into BDSM, and you are doing any kind of BDSM activities on the computer. . .you are fake. If you don't reply to every email that someone might send you in regards to serving or being served. . .you're a fake. Ad infininum ad nauseum. I think we have seen derivations of all of this somewhere. . .it just makes me laugh. By the way. . .for those that feel like they wanna flame me. . .don't bother. . .I'm FAKE!!!! cheers Jules

lilninotchka -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 2:11:08 PM)
No worries - i'm fake too. [:D] It's sad, but i have yet to find anyone who hasn't been called fake for something by someone... The way i see it, it's their issue and their loss...and i use the word 'fake' to refer to cardboard cut-outs of people and mannikins - works well for me. [;)]

LadyAngelika -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 2:48:42 PM)
quote: You will never realize how much I appreciate your posts Angelika. I wish more people were like you. The feeling is quite mutual Jules darling! - LA

perverseangelic -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 3:57:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessJules You will never realize how much I appreciate your posts Angelika. I wish more people were like you. I will never understand why some people have to worry about others soooooo much to the point that they will write a whole post about it to bash them. Seconded. I'll admit I find myself guilty of judging some people as "fake" based solely on the way they present themselves on the net. However, I'm aware of it and am working hard to change it. Incedentally, you're also FAKE if you and your partner relationship has a dynamic different from those that are "traditional."

siamsa24 -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 4:04:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: perverseangelic Incedentally, you're also FAKE if you and your partner relationship has a dynamic different from those that are "traditional." I've gotten that one thrown at me more then a few times. The way I see it, no one is ever going to have the same relationship as someone else. We all come from different backgrounds and experiences so we all want something a little different.

ThornBlood -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 4:33:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyBeckett I believe it is the chemistry between the Dominant and the submissive that is the key to where the relationship will go, and how far, certainly. Zactly.. It really is between the people in that particular dynamic. It's not what anyone else thinks about it. Heck.. I might even learn something. Seems that I usually do.

happypervert -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 6:03:51 PM)
Of course everything LadyA says makes sense. But I missed the part about who is bashing the "fake subs". Seems like whenever I hear a submissive mention being called a fake, it is usually because some nitwit expects them to reply to the first e-mail with a lot of "yes master" stuff and be completely stupid and pliable. So I thought the only bashers of "fake subs" were the clueless fake doms.

angelpet -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 7:00:43 PM)
I love it when I am called a fake for not responding or answering how another wants me to. Then I ask what criteria they are using to measure me by and for their references; making sure that they know I can provide a wide range of my own. That usually shuts them up and many times I am put on ignore after receiving a message that I have been disrespectful. Well if questioning them means i am disrespectful so be it. At least I know who I am and do not have to self proclaim a title to hold my head up. angel

Nagatzhul -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 7:27:56 PM)
I am going to take a whole other tact. I think people a lot of times view someone else who does not want what they want as "fake." And by that I mean this: There are a lot of people, for example, who are exclusively into sensation play. They might LOVE to bottom and be great at it. However, if they approach someone who is dominant and is more into the power exchange aspect of a relationship, they are going to come across as not real or fake. Part of the problem is that a lot of the time, the same language is being used, but the meanings and intent are worlds apart. The problem isn't that people are "fake" but that their language is so sloppy and their understanding so narrow. And they expect everyone to be just like them.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/23/2004 8:56:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: happypervert Of course everything LadyA says makes sense. Tell that to my thesis advisor, ok? Sincerely, it's nice to be admired by those I admire. quote: ORIGINAL: happypervert But I missed the part about who is bashing the "fake subs". Seems like whenever I hear a submissive mention being called a fake, it is usually because some nitwit expects them to reply to the first e-mail with a lot of "yes master" stuff and be completely stupid and pliable. So I thought the only bashers of "fake subs" were the clueless fake doms. Well I don't want to point fingers or name names. In all honesty, that is not the point of this thread. I read a few threads this morning (I was catching up on the posts of the week) and I saw the words fake or faux pop up a few times and it disturbed me. This isn’t the first time I see this but it got me thinking. I understand a lot of people will call someone a fake when they feel they have been duped. It is a completely human response and I do not fault anyone for it. I’ve been known to curse a storm at people who have betrayed me. My point was simply to raise a little awareness about the vocabulary we use and the messages we are sending. We can all be a little more self-aware, myself included. - LA

GoddessJules -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/24/2004 7:55:37 AM)
quote: My point was simply to raise a little awareness about the vocabulary we use and the messages we are sending. We can all be a little more self-aware, myself included. I admire that. I wasn't born perfect. . .I actually have to work at it (LOL) There was a time that I used to think things such as: "On my god! How can these idiots take an online relationship so seriously??" or "He's telling HER what to do. . .how fake is that?" But after some years and experience under my belt (not to mention being on the OTHER side of various judgements) I came to the conclusion that if the relationship is real enough to the parties involved. . .no matter what the dynamic then who am I to sit there and worry about the minutae of their relationship/dynamic? If their relationship was exclusively online. . .hey. . .I wish them the best. If their relationship involves the sub handing over his paycheck for little or no contact with the domina. . .they are both adults and it doesn't detract from MY life so why get MY panties in a wad about it? It is "real" to them. If a sub is looking for a blonde, busty, Marilyn Monroe look a like (which is DEFINITELY not me). . .that is his perogative and doesn't make him any more or less real than someone who IS looking for someone like me. Sometimes, what others are doing may be a hard pill to swallow. It's perfectly acceptable to say "That isn't my cup of tea." It becomes offensive when people think they have a monopoly on what is real and what is not and pass along their judgements accordingly. AND, I do catch myself making snap judgements about people/situations. . .but I'm pretty dilligent about trying not to. I hope everyone has a great weekend. Jules

Suleiman -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/24/2004 6:21:17 PM)
Let's not forget the other side of this coin, darlings. I wouldn't presume to make such a statement about my esteemed fellows of this community, but in my own hubris, I have declaimed more than one person as "fake" because of such statements about the incorrect practice of others. After all, how "real" can they be if they don't understand what I am doing with my life? Recently, I have been coming to grips with the fact that on some level, this is all "fake". We're living out a kind of fantasy, and doing our damndest to make it real. The very terms "fake" and "real" are loaded in abstract meaning that does not readily apply itself to our lives or lifestyles. I am at the point, now (although my mind is a chaotic thing, prone to shift, slide, and change as the weather dictates) where, if you are doing something, that makes it real. If you refuse to try something, that means you don't like it. "fake" should be reserved for talking without trying, but it should have a happier connotation, like "fantasy" or "myth". And yes, dear Lady Angelika, I am as great an admirer of your posts as these others. ~S

MistressDREAD -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/24/2004 7:43:42 PM)
quote: Different does not mean fake Correct And being I just spent the past three hours getting My brain bashed in with such opinions as My self being fake beause there is no such thing as Dominance in Woman and no such thing as Gor or its lifestyle or BDSM for that matter and We are all simply fakers in a online world of fakiness and not in the mood right now to say more on this issue or I might explode or implode I will simply say to the poster. Correct

LadyAngelika -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/24/2004 9:44:32 PM)
Dread, You are simply unique :) Don't ever change! - LA

sterlingsweet -> RE: Different does not mean fake (10/24/2004 11:53:29 PM)
This Is One of the Best threads I have read here. Thank you L.Angelika for starting it and also to all of you who participated. I know I desire to have this Lifestyle be a part of my life, I began almost a year ago, and have had real/time experience, which helped bring me to a closer understanding of just what the Lifestyle means to me and how I want to incorporate it into my life. Because I am still discovering myself, the only thing I am finding that remains totally true and constant for me is that I am a Lesbian. I started out as a submissive and through my relationship with my Mistress found out I also enjoy Switching, which she liked...thank Goddess! At first it made me question myself and someone helped me look at it in a different light. I was told that if my Mistress desires me to Switch and Top her then I was still following her orders, Ergo to Wit, I held my place submissively. Having been in a real/time realationship with her now for 6 months, our relationship itself has changed. Because of life circumstances, she is unable right now to meet what I desire out of a relationship. We have opened up our relationship to exploration outside ourselves. And so I find it time for re-evaluation about what the Lifestyle means to me, how I want that incorporated into my life, and mostly find a partner that fits and likes that picture also...Thus the Lifestyle, for me is sometimes about Fluctuation and excepting who I am today and someday, maybe find just where I fit, and if that changes than it does, it does not mean I am FAKE....As I learn more about the Lifestyle and more importantly Myself... This Never, Ever makes me a Fake or not a real Lifer...I know who I have evolved into today and except me. The Lifestyle is However a partner and myself choose to incorprate it into and enhance our time together, whether that be weeks, months, years... Thanks Again ~sterling [;)]

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