quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

Facts Kirata facts
the facts are there but only you can see them. Clearly I can't, but neither can the rest of the world.
At some point you have to ask is it them or is it me that's wrong.
Idiot that I am, I am going to side with them.
When you are sitting in the spacecraft looking down on the worthless non believing humans you are about to leave behind, please think of me and put me out of my misery with your raygun

you're back to my earlier point about the flat earth society (bold above).

at one time, most human thought the earth was flat. it was common knowledge, and sheeples like you made fun of people who didn't go with mob rule.

it's absurd to even suggest that aliens haven't been spotted because ABC news doesn't say they were. in fact, they and many mainstream networks have, many times. narrow minded people will only consider believing things that are stuck in their faces.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

Facts Kirata facts
the facts are there but only you can see them. Clearly I can't, but neither can the rest of the world.
At some point you have to ask is it them or is it me that's wrong.
Idiot that I am, I am going to side with them.
When you are sitting in the spacecraft looking down on the worthless non believing humans you are about to leave behind, please think of me and put me out of my misery with your raygun

you're back to my earlier point about the flat earth society (bold above).

at one time, most human thought the earth was flat. it was common knowledge, and sheeples like you made fun of people who didn't go with mob rule.

it's absurd to even suggest that aliens haven't been spotted because ABC news doesn't say they were. in fact, they and many mainstream networks have, many times. narrow minded people will only consider believing things that are stuck in their faces.

so now it's just the government, all the news channels and the conspriracy theorists who know the truth. Ain't going to be many ignorant poeple like me left at this rate is there?
Honestly have a word with yourself and think about what you are suggesting. Do you really believe there is this huge yawning gap between those "in the know" and the rest of the world?

I can't believe I have been sucked into this total and utter bullshit.

Goodnight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
you're back to my earlier point about the flat earth society (bold above).

at one time, most human thought the earth was flat. it was common knowledge, and sheeples like you made fun of people who didn't go with mob rule.

it's absurd to even suggest that aliens haven't been spotted because ABC news doesn't say they were. in fact, they and many mainstream networks have, many times. narrow minded people will only consider believing things that are stuck in their faces.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

Could it be conspiracy? Thats hard to accept too because this subject by its very nature would be way too big for the US (powerful as it is) and its pals in the West to completely suppress. Just look at what happens with serious cover-ups. By now some solid evidence would have been made public by someone with a niggling conscience.

"The U.S. Government hasn't maintained secrecy regarding UFOs. It's been leaking out all over the place. But the way it's been handled is denial, be denying the truth of the documents that have been leaked. By attempting to show them as fraudulent, as bogus.

There has been a very large disinformation and misinformation effort around this whole area. And one must wonder, how better to hide something out in the open than just to say, 'It isn't there. You're deceiving yourself in you think this is true.' And yet, there it is right in front of you."

~Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
you're back to my earlier point about the flat earth society (bold above).

at one time, most human thought the earth was flat. it was common knowledge, and sheeples like you made fun of people who didn't go with mob rule.

it's absurd to even suggest that aliens haven't been spotted because ABC news doesn't say they were. in fact, they and many mainstream networks have, many times. narrow minded people will only consider believing things that are stuck in their faces.

I probably shouldn't wade in at this stage but would just like to make one basic point. I don't think the "that was common belief then but we know better now argument" stands up because based on the limited knowledge at the time it was a reasonable assumption to possess, and that line could be taken with any sceptic on any subject. The scepticism about UFOs and associated alien claims is a bit different, and its more than just about "sheeples". People are presented with information that is difficult to accept a lot of the time. Eventually a good amount of it becomes accepted for varying reasons, one of the main being an acceptance by respected (and independent minded) authorities in academia (rather than a few dudes with MA's from the University of Hawhaw) etc. After decades of claim after claim, sensationalism, and a lot of controversy, there just isn't any of that with UFOlogy, and a lot of it has been debunked so I think there is still good reason to be highly sceptical.

Could it be conspiracy? Thats hard to accept too because this subject by its very nature would be way too big for the US (powerful as it is) and its pals in the West to completely suppress. Just look at what happens with serious cover-ups. By now some solid evidence would have been made public by someone with a niggling conscience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
That doesn't constitute some robust evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell#Views_on_UFOs that I suggested would have been leaked by now. I recall the story about Mitchell a few years back when he made those or similar claims about US secrecy http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/edgar-mitchell-on-ufos-again/ but doesn't convince

Well, you're knocking down a straw man. That wasn't posted as an example of the "robust evidence" that you suggested "would have been leaked by now." It was posted in response to the portion of your comment that I quoted, namely, that something like this couldn't be successfully covered-up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

That doesn't constitute some robust evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell#Views_on_UFOs that I suggested would have been leaked by now. I recall the story about Mitchell a few years back when he made those or similar claims about US secrecy http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/edgar-mitchell-on-ufos-again/ but doesn't convince

Well, you're knocking down a straw man. That wasn't posted as an example of the "robust evidence" that you suggested "would have been leaked by now." It was posted in response to the portion of your comment that I quoted, namely, that something like this couldn't be successfully covered-up.

And the answer is, it hasn't been. Both the government and the military simply insist that the elephant in the room isn't really there, and anyone who risks letting on that they notice it is made an object of ridicule. Edgar Mitchell provides a case in point, but he is only one of many.

The fact remains that there is a world of testimony from credible witnesses, radar data, documents, and NASA videos that attest to unidentified craft in our atmosphere and near-Earth space. Short of one landing in my back yard, it's not clear to me how much more "robust" the evidence could be.

I have no brief for trying to sell anyone on "believing in flying saucers," and I didn't start this thread. But there is an overwhelming body of evidence that cannot be ignored by anyone pretending to intellectual honesty, and nothing to counter it except ridicule and denials.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
Your logic is sound re skepticism, but I disagree on your conclusion. I.e., i think people are generally sheeples, and believe "common knowledge" even when it's BS. Frame of reference doesn't seem to matter so much, because that's defined by "common knowledge".

I'm sure governments suppress plenty of information, but I don't consider that a conspiracy. It's just what governments do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
I'm sure governments suppress plenty of information, but I don't consider that a conspiracy. It's just what governments do.

If you think one of the primary functions of governance is to systematically suppress...

Odd how you so often seem to see words in people's posts that aren't there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
You complain about the ridicule of your views but at the same time are criticising others that disagree over a lack of intellectual honesty! Since a few posts the other day I have actually made an effort not to ridicule anyone but rather to explain my own POV. It ought to be accepted that others fail to see an overwhelming body of truly authentic evidence.

Hardly a baseless complaint, given your "few posts the other day" like this one:

Oh deary, deary me, and there I was wondering why you sometimes cited conspiracist sources a while back, defended Termy when he was spouting about the Protocols, etc...

Such tactics have been a fond favorite of ecclesiastics since the Dark Ages; though in those days instead of charlatanism and mental defect, it was the "influence of the Devil."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Odd how you so often seem to see words in people's posts that aren't there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Odd how you so often seem to see words in people's posts that aren't there.

He has a peculiar mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
LOL I seem to have ruffled your feathers again dear boy. I could also suggest it is funny how selectively you read posts. Note the qualifier "if". Note also that I am going on the statement "It's just what governments do." which could suggest he claims its an intrinsic function of governments. I wasn't clear on that however so I used "if". Are you happy now?

See, that's what I mean. Why would you think that something you heard in your head, which wasn't in Karmastic's post, might be what he was saying? And what words in my post led you to think my feathers were ruffled?

Now that is amusing. You claim I hear things in my head, to suggest some form of delusion I assume. Yet it is something I have never said myself so it is reasonable to assume you are the one in the grip of said phenomenon.

Secondly, it is reasonable to infer what another person might be saying based on their words. It is done all the time all over the world dear boy. The fact that you have taken issue with such a thing when done by those you repeatedly disagree with merely illustrates youur own "intellectual dishonesty" I backed it up with a conditional "if". Obfuscate all you wish but you cannot get around that point.

quote:


I honestly find myself wondering sometimes whether you can tell the difference between what you hear in your head and what you see on the page. And, too, whether you can distinguish between your own feelings and those you claim to perceive in others, because when you call people "dear boy" there's invariably one or two of your feathers stuck to it.

But, alas, I suppose some of life's mysteries will always remain mysterious.

Again with all your convoluted mind reading in order to make personal attacks but maybe just maybe I say "dear boy" because I regard you as a "dear boy".

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 4/26/2012 7:53:51 AM >

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"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to Kirata)