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RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 8:24:03 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

I backed it up with a conditional "if"

...maybe I say "dear boy" because I regard you as a "dear boy".

If you regard me as a dear boy, you are by any description absolutely fucking nuts.

Notice, however, that I backed that up with a conditional "if".

K.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 8:27:52 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Such tactics have been a fond favorite of ecclesiastics since the Dark Ages; though in those days instead of charlatanism and mental defect, it was the "influence of the Devil."

I suggest you make more effort to follow the facts rather than pouring on the insults such as suggesting I am mentally defective.

Where in this quote is the suggestion that you are mentally defective?

Oh dear, now you are denying you suggested it. You attributed to me the qualities of "charlatanism and mental defect" by claiming I utilise the very tactics that indicate them.

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
I posted that comment a week ago. Considering the sustained trolling attacks you made in the past I suggest it was relatively restrained. You posted a somewhat insulting message http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4095957 six days ago to which I made a polite reply. You then replied here http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4096102 and even though there were bizarre claims over secret civilisation(s) I was happy to give you the last word but you initiated er... a "debate" with me subsequently.

Thank you for including links with your claims. They will reward reading for anyone bored enough to be interested.

They were for you and only you dear boy. I posted them to point out once again that your assertions are erroneous.

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

As you may well know it isn't easy to prove a negative. If I state that I haven't seen any compelling proofs then I cannot point to any compelling proofs that I haven't seen.

Nobody asked you to prove a negative. It is simply stating a fact to point out that your complaint about a lack of "robust evidence" fails to specify what you would consider "robust evidence" to be, and thus serves no purpose except to dismiss the existing evidence as not "robust" enough purely on your say so.

It should be self-evident as to what robust evidence should be. The very standards applied when deliberating on any contentious subjects.

quote:


Now, of course, you are changing your complaint to a lack of "compelling proof." But I'm not going to ask what you would consider "compelling proof" to be, because I recognize the tune.

They are essentially the same but play the tune dear boy play the tune...


quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
If you are suggesting the onus is on me to disprove these claims then I must point out that I'm not the one making this highly disputed assertions.

What I am suggesting, and rather more directly than merely suggesting, is that you have asserted an unsubstantiated claim that the evidence is "not robust." You asserted this claim without defining "robust" and without showing that the evidence fails to meet that standard. You bet your ass the onus is on you.

No I'm afraid not. It is you who make the claim about aliens etc. We all know what robust evidence is. It is essentially some substantive proof. Now you are playing a very silly game of demanding that I qualify it as such. Do you want me to list a compendium of satisfactory proofs? You really ought to get a grip. The proof could come in numerous forms.

You are the one making powerful claims but all you have done is provide quotes by a two or three figures that provide no substantive evidence. Terribly sorry but I need more.

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

I have difficulty accepting the testimony of these "credible" witnesses because even though they were inside some of the institutions supposedly carrying out a cover-up, they were not able to furnish any substantive evidence.

Again, you claim they have furnished no substantive evidence, but you don't define "substantive". What would you consider "substantive" evidence to be? Stealing a flying saucer and landing it in Central Park? I don't know. You tell me.

Stealing a flying saucer and landing it would certainly be substantive evidence. Perhaps you can do that next time you're up there? In the meantime here is a definition of the word "substantive" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/substantive

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 4/26/2012 8:30:49 AM >


_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 8:36:40 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
I backed it up with a conditional "if"

...maybe I say "dear boy" because I regard you as a "dear boy".

If you regard me as a dear boy, you are by any description absolutely fucking nuts.

Notice, however, that I backed that up with a conditional "if".

Awww shucks... but thanks for the "if"! Since you evidently are not familiar with the term, it is oft used to indicate a good humoured superiority http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/dear#dear_11 rather than annoyance or said "ruffling of feathers".

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 4/26/2012 8:37:28 AM >


_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 9:09:28 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
If you regard me as a dear boy, you are by any description absolutely fucking nuts.

Notice, however, that I backed that up with a conditional "if".



(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 9:31:43 AM   
Anaxagoras


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Joined: 5/9/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
If you regard me as a dear boy, you are by any description absolutely fucking nuts.

Notice, however, that I backed that up with a conditional "if".



I think Rule has me on block but the only reason he is sore is because he didn't like me disagreeing with his nutty conspiracies over 9/11 where apparently there weren't even any planes!

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 10:45:32 AM   
hardcybermaster


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http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/08/the-psychology-of-conspiracy-theories/

In case you haven’t noticed, this site is currently being bombarded by a certain strand of conspiracy theorist. I’m still not entirely sure what these people believe in, apart from being absolutely certain that the government is developing brain-eating vaccines, spiking the water with lithium and trying to subdue the population with “reactive” medicine. While it’s always sad to see so much angry ignorance on parade, it’s also a fascinating case study in cognitive dissonance.

The theory of cognitive dissonance – one of most influential theories in social psychology – was pioneered by Leon Festinger, at the University of Minnesota. In the summer of 1954, Festinger was reading the morning newspaper when he encountered a short article about Marion Keech, a housewife in suburban Minneapolis who was convinced that the apocalypse was coming. (Keech was a pseudonym.) She had started getting messages from aliens a few years before, but now the messages were getting eerily specific. According to Sananda, an extra-terrestrial from the planet Clarion who was in regular contact with Keech, human civilization would be destroyed by a massive flood at midnight on December 20, 1954.

Keech’s sci-fi prophecy soon gained a small band of followers. They trusted her divinations, and marked the date of Armageddon on their calendars. Many of them quit their jobs and sold their homes. The cultists didn’t bother buying Christmas presents or making arrangements for New Years Eve, since nothing would exist by then.

Festinger immediately realized that Keech would make a great research subject. He decided to infiltrate the group by pretending to be a true believer. What Festinger wanted to study was the reaction of the cultists on the morning of December 21, when the world wasn’t destroyed and no spaceship appeared. Would Keech recant? What would happen when her prophesy failed?

On the night of December 20, Keech’s followers gathered in her home and waited for instructions from the aliens. Midnight approached. When the clock read 12:01 and there were still no aliens, the cultists began to worry. A few began to cry. The aliens had let them down. But then Keech received a new telegram from outer space, which she quickly transcribed on her notepad. “This little group sitting all night long had spread so much light,” the aliens told her, “that god saved the world from destruction. Not since the beginning of time upon this Earth has there been such a force of Good and light as now floods this room.” In other words, it was their stubborn faith that had prevented the apocalypse. Although Keech’s predictions had been falsified, the group was now more convinced than ever that the aliens were real. They began proselytizing to others, sending out press releases and recruiting new believers. This is how they reacted to the dissonance of being wrong: by becoming even more certain that they were right.

There is, of course, something deeply troubling about cognitive dissonance, since it suggests that we double-down on our beliefs in light of conflicting evidence. While neuroscientists have begun to decipher the anatomy of this mental flaw – you can blame your anterior cingulate cortex – I sometimes worry that the internet is making things worse. Although we’re all vulnerable to cognitive dissonance (and the paranoid style has always been a loud presence in American politics) we seem to squander ever more oxygen on worthless conversations about Obama’s birth certificate and the North American Union. After all, thanks to Google we can find “evidence” in support of practically any belief. If you can imagine the conspiracy theory, there is a website out there ardently promoting it, and a clan of fellow believers who share your peculiar obsession with fluoridated drinking water and the New World Order. The end result is that we never have to recant. We can always find another link to “prove” that the government is trying to “zombify” us, or that aliens are going to destroy the earth at midnight


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Cognitive dissonance has also been demonstrated to occur when people seek to:

Justify behavior that opposed their views


_____________________________

insert something clever or profound that someone else thought of

vanilla burger flipper


(in reply to Anaxagoras)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 11:13:43 AM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

In case you haven’t noticed, this site is currently being bombarded by a certain strand of conspiracy theorist.

Wrong forum. The guy who was starting thread after thread on the same topic is over in P&R.

K.

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 2:53:41 PM   
hardcybermaster


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don't be like that, I was just trying to help, I thought if you heard those terms again it might jog your memory about the meds

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insert something clever or profound that someone else thought of

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 3:12:50 PM   
Karmastic


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From: Los Angeles
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
Your logic is sound re skepticism, but I disagree on your conclusion. I.e., i think people are generally sheeples, and believe "common knowledge" even when it's BS. Frame of reference doesn't seem to matter so much, because that's defined by "common knowledge".

I'm sure governments suppress plenty of information, but I don't consider that a conspiracy. It's just what governments do.

I honestly have no wish to cause any offence but if you think most people are sheeples (seemingly because they don't possess similar beliefs) then that reflects back negatively. If you think one of the primary functions of governance is to systematically suppress information and discredit sources of truth then that sounds like a pretty intense conspiracist.

no worries, no offense taken.

you're inaccurately reading into what i wrote.

people aren't sheeples cus they don't possess beliefs similar to me (or disagree with me). what i believe or whether they agree with me is irrelevant. they are sheeples cus they don't reach out to educate themselves or discuss, as we are, to learn grow and intelligently open their minds. instead, they only watch american network news and follow "common knowledge" as it is being spoon-fed to them.

i also never said that's a primary function, i simply said that's (implicitly) part of what they do, and it's not all bad. can't share all state secrets for obvious reasons.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 3:43:38 PM   
Rule


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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster
Although we’re all vulnerable to cognitive dissonance

You truly do not get it, do you? Marion Keech was right all along, but you have failed to recognize that. You are suffering from cognitive dissonance!


(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 3:52:17 PM   
hardcybermaster


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note to self.

remember to become a scientologist tomorrow so I can have a rational discussion with some sane people

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insert something clever or profound that someone else thought of

vanilla burger flipper


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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 3:59:40 PM   
hardcybermaster


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Joined: 10/6/2008
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"they are sheeples cus they don't reach out to educate themselves or discuss, as we are, to learn grow and intelligently open their minds."

I must have misread nearly everything you and K said.

reaching out into the internet can be pretty dangerous Karmy, I think you have stretched your arm and mind out a little too far and been pulled into its web of insanity

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insert something clever or profound that someone else thought of

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 4:03:26 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

Well done Kirata, you are in argeement with foreskin boy...

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K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/26/2012 4:46:57 PM >

(in reply to Anaxagoras)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 4:28:00 PM   
Karmastic


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Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

"they are sheeples cus they don't reach out to educate themselves or discuss, as we are, to learn grow and intelligently open their minds."

I must have misread nearly everything you and K said.

reaching out into the internet can be pretty dangerous Karmy, I think you have stretched your arm and mind out a little too far and been pulled into its web of insanity

heh heh, thanks for your concern, but i've been waste-deep in it for many years.

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
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RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 4:42:52 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster
note to self.

remember to become a scientologist tomorrow so I can have a rational discussion with some sane people

See? Now you are talking to yourself! You need help!



(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 4:45:21 PM   
Rule


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He looks like that?

No wonder that he is slow and slimy.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 4:50:46 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

He looks like that?

Nooooooooooooo. Sheesh.



That's supposed to be a listing of his posts.

K.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 4:53:30 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

don't be like that, I was just trying to help, I thought if you heard those terms again it might jog your memory about the meds

I think the phrase you should focus on is, "we double-down on our beliefs in light of conflicting evidence."

It would seem you've encountered some.

K.

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 5:06:28 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Nooooooooooooo. Sheesh.



That's supposed to be a listing of his posts.

K.

Oh.


< Message edited by Rule -- 4/26/2012 5:36:00 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Recent Mass UFO Sightings 2011 - 4/26/2012 5:20:25 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

don't be like that, I was just trying to help, I thought if you heard those terms again it might jog your memory about the meds

I think the phrase you should focus on is, "we double-down on our beliefs in light of conflicting evidence."

It would seem you've encountered some.

Perhaps the greatest thing skeptics have encountered from UFOlogists/conspiracists like yourself and Rule is a manifest childishness in the face of debate. It doesn't help address the credibility deficit amongst advocates.


_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 140
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