quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil

I think "just a sub" can be fine, but overall think it's a level.

For me, bottoms are people who enjoy having BDSM activities (spanking, whipping, etc) done to them, but are not looking to give up any power or control. The activity is the purpose of play or a relationship.

Submissives are people who enjoy BDSM activities as a reminder of the power exchange and/or loss of control that can take place in a D/s interactions. For subs the power exchange and pleasing is the purpose, the physical activity just becomes a way to demonstrate it. Also, this is the one thing that describes someones nature. As debated in other threads, submissive can be a noun or adjective. A person can be submissive whether serving someone or not.

Slaves are generally submissives who dedicate themselves to a person or group, and the power exchange is absolute. It's not just during a certain period of time, or during a certain act, submission to the dominant partner(s) rules and desires is a way of life.

Just my definitions.

Edited for spelling

I will argue definitions till everyone is blue in the face  but the words here, probably come the closest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I have seen countless times on these message boards where a submissive will say "I'm not a slave, I'm just a sub" or "I'm not slave material, I"m only a submissive". I have seen slaves who will say in their advice to others "Maybe you aren't ready to be a slave, maybe you should just be a sub" or "she's not a slave, she's just a sub". I've seen Dominants and Masters refer to the "just a sub" thing. Just today I've seen it implied that slaves need to be more mature. I've also seen this phenomenon in real life. "She calls herself a slave but she is really just a sub".

So, what do you mean by "just a sub"? Do you think slaves are more mature? More dedicated? More submissive? More committed? Higher up on the ladder? Do you see slavery as a goal that you strive to reach that comes somewhere after submission? Are slaves more elite? Better than?

Just what is meant by this "just a sub" thing.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
So the elitism and ridicule works both ways, I see...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
So, what do you mean by "just a sub"?
Just what is meant by this "just a sub" thing.

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ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

I hope this doesn't mistakenly get posted as a reply to anyone except the OP.  I too, have been called "just a sub" even though I am in a 24/7 live-in relationship where I am ALWAYS the submissive to my dominant.  Anyway I wrap my head around it, I cannot conceive of anyone being anything BUT submissive or dominant.  That's it....period.

I don't mean to upset those who consider themselves slaves here and don't want this to degenerate into a slave vs. submissive thread.  However, if we have the power to say no (or even leave the relationship) at any point, even to the point of allowing a dominant to kill us just for ha has (not that I think there are any out there), WE hold some power.

If we hold ANY power, IMHO, we are "only" submissive.  I haven't met anyone, here or anywhere else that is really a no-limit (including leaving and death) slave, which is the only definition there is of slave.

Consequently, we "only submissives" are all in this together.

quote:

  it is NOT just  a submissive thing, although it maybe more subtle since there are not entire threads discussing the differences....smiles  

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Some day when I grow up, I hope to work myself up to such a high level of submission, that before being collared, master actually kills me ... just to prove that I'm not topping from the bottom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I have seen countless times on these message boards where a submissive will say "I'm not a slave, I'm just a sub" or "I'm not slave material, I"m only a submissive". I have seen slaves who will say in their advice to others "Maybe you aren't ready to be a slave, maybe you should just be a sub" or "she's not a slave, she's just a sub". I've seen Dominants and Masters refer to the "just a sub" thing. Just today I've seen it implied that slaves need to be more mature. I've also seen this phenomenon in real life. "She calls herself a slave but she is really just a sub".

So, what do you mean by "just a sub"? Do you think slaves are more mature? More dedicated? More submissive? More committed? Higher up on the ladder? Do you see slavery as a goal that you strive to reach that comes somewhere after submission? Are slaves more elite? Better than?

Just what is meant by this "just a sub" thing.

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ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
So, what do you mean by "just a sub"?
Just what is meant by this "just a sub" thing.

I'm going to try to stick to these questions, and try real hard to not veer into sub vs. slave.

The more I think about "just a ...", the more it actually makes sense to me.
If in my mind a slave is someone who has qualities 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.
And in my mind a submissive is someone who has qualities 2, 4, and 5.
And I'm looking for what I define as a slave,
It makes sense that I would say "You aren't what I'm looking for because you're just a sub."
It makes as much sense and is not as offensive to say, "You aren't what I'm looking for because you're submissive and I am looking for a slave."
Meaning "You just have some of the qualities I want in a person. Not all of them."

We can replace it with anything.
If a man wants a cake, he's not going to settle for "just a twinkie".
If a man wants a cake, he's not going to settle for a twinkie.
It doesn't mean twinkies suck. It means they don't have all the qualities he's looking for in dessert.
If he want a cow, he's not going to settle for "just a glass of milk".
If he wants a cow, he's not going to settle for a glass of milk.
Not meaning that a glass of milk lacks value. But he really wanted the whole cow.
If he wants a slave, he's not going to settle for "just a submissive".
If he wants a slave, he's not going to settle for a submissive.
It doesn't mean he thinks submissives are bad. It means that he sees them as failing to meet his full definition of slave.

(Just as an aside, I personally don't use the "just" qualifier. I'm just trying to shed light on why someone might state things that way.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: denika

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil

I think "just a sub" can be fine, but overall think it's a level.

For me, bottoms are people who enjoy having BDSM activities (spanking, whipping, etc) done to them, but are not looking to give up any power or control. The activity is the purpose of play or a relationship.

As  each person has their own definition of what  slave/submissive means to them the same thing is said of bottoms.
I am a bottom, but  I don't fit into the classic description I give up both power and control to my Top,  Not all bottoms are masochist the same as not all masochists are bottoms. Mind you, I also do not play with other's only Him so that cancels out the beleif that all  bottoms play with multiple partners or have no emotional connection with their Top.

Being called 'just a sub' kind of falls into the same catagory as when  paramedics get called 'just ambulance drivers' well ,we do drive the ambulance but we also do alot more same as  someone in a submissive relationship.


denika

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Without an across the board, universally recognized definition of what the distinction is between submissive and slave....the use of the word just is......well, it's "just" plain ignorant. 

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Without an across the board, universally recognized definition of what the distinction is between submissive and slave....the use of the word just is......well, it's "just" plain ignorant. 

Or their brother words "real" and "true."

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Without an across the board, universally recognized definition of what the distinction is between submissive and slave....the use of the word just is......well, it's "just" plain ignorant. 

Or their brother words "real" and "true."

How incredibly silly of me to forget!