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RE: BDSM Relationships - Healthy? - 1/5/2012 8:06:16 AM

Kana

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A few comments
1-I would argue, very very strongly, that there are lots lots more sensual subs than maso's in BDSM. As in like 50 to 1.
2-Wrap it up any way ya like, garb it in leather, latex, rubber and chains, and at it's heart, it's only a relationship, just like any other...which means that it plays to some of the same rules as any other interaction. So of course it's hugely important to be friends.
3-This is just me, but I think it's absolutely necessary to know her inside and out that I can be the best dom that I can be for her..and that means time. Lots and lots of time-spent together getting to know each other, how we think, how we act, what values morals do we possess, how we fit together.
Call it what ya will, consideration, courtship, dating, it's all the same. Me learning her and she me until eventually one day, maybe, we can complete each others sentences or have that happy awkward Jinx moment when you both blurt out the exact same thing simultaneously.

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RE: BDSM Relationships - Healthy? - 1/5/2012 8:14:19 AM

Epytropos

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I'm not a long-term BDSM partner at the moment but I have been in the past and what I realized (or at least concluded) at some juncture was that the dichotomy of 'healthy' versus 'unhealthy' or 'stunted' is mostly shit. To begin, there's no reason that a BDSM relationship can't have a considerable courtship period (my last one did), and regardless the idea of a healthy or unhealthy relationship is purely a product of your mind trying to force something uncontainable into a box. Trying to apply your psychological knowledge to form a value judgment on a relationship, especially one you're partaking in or considering partaking in, is like trying to catch wind in a jar. Even if you catch some, you haven't really caught the wind but rather the air.

Do whatever feels good with whomever feels good, do your best not to hurt anyone in the process if you can help it, and quit trying to think things through. Some things aren't meant to be quantified, and if you do manage to you will have ruined them in the process. There's a reason our poets describe love more effectively than our chemists.

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RE: BDSM Relationships - Healthy? - 1/5/2012 9:15:22 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AngelSighs

I guess I'm trying to reconcile what I'm reading, seeing (recent play party), and discussing with both the BDSM and vanilla. I figure that BDSM is like many things in life - you find what works and make it part of you. You discard what doesn't work.

But, I know that it would HURT ME to hurt anyone else. So I want to be sure that I'm not ignoring the emotional side of things both for myself and a potential Dom.

I remember a discussion with my mother years ago. She'd quoted the obvious - why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. Then she said that there is an "emotional price" that you pay for casual play/sex as a woman. She said that over time, it isn't sustainable and it's very hard on a person emotionally.

What I noticed over the years is that she was right. I've noticed it in the lives of friends as well as myself. It can be particularly hard to keep your heart open if there's a swinging door there.

So this is another thing I'm pondering while I figure things out.

I echo what others have already said. First and foremost it is a relationship. What KIND of relationship depends entirely on those actually in it.

I did want to address the bit I bolded. I am personally, not or have ever been, a sexually promiscuous person. It is MY personal choice, what I know is best for ME.

However, MY way is not best for everyone. What you've experienced is not the same experience for everyone. I caution you to avoid (not saying you are or would, just saying...) placing yourself on some kind of pedestal because other's ways are not your way. There are many people that are completely comfortable with living a life that involves sex without a romantic or serious relationship. It doesn't have to be the way you have experienced it to be, or the way you've seen others experience it.

As we all do, you of course have a right to the type of life and relationship that works best for you......just try to avoid judging others' choices in the event they don't parallel with yours. They are not wrong, just different.

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RE: BDSM Relationships - Healthy? - 1/5/2012 9:24:11 AM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AngelSighs
I remember a discussion with my mother years ago. She'd quoted the obvious - why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. Then she said that there is an "emotional price" that you pay for casual play/sex as a woman. She said that over time, it isn't sustainable and it's very hard on a person emotionally.

What I noticed over the years is that she was right. I've noticed it in the lives of friends as well as myself. It can be particularly hard to keep your heart open if there's a swinging door there.

As a woman I never found that I paid a high emotional price for casual sex, if I had casual sex it is because I wanted causal sex and if I wanted a relationship I had a relationship. I hate this idea that poor weak women can't divorce the two. As LAT said, it works for some and not for others.

I have to also be honest here, I havent found the 'why buy the cow' addage true in my life either. There have been men I have waited to sleep with because it felt right and people who I have slept with right away, neither has affected the level of affection in the relationship nor the length of it.

To me it is all pretty horrific stereotypes that amount to sexism, that then we are meant to personify, not because it is reality but because we are women and thats the way we are meant to be.

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RE: BDSM Relationships - Healthy? - 1/5/2012 12:35:14 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

So, in a vanilla relationship, most of the time there's a "courtship" of sorts long before anyone decides to get involved on a sexual basis --- barring of course the occasional one-night-stands that some would indulge. Those are not what I'm referring to here.

So what I'm wondering is............IF the BDSM community goes for the pain/pleasure side of the relationship FIRST, are we short-changing the potential for long-term relationships by "skipping" the courtship side of things? Are we in effect "stunting" the relationship growth emotionally in one aspect before it begins? Or doesn't the emotional growth of the relationship matter?

I wasn't one for courtship when I was vanilla - I hopped right in bed with my future husband and we were married 18 years.

If you want to be courted, by all means hold out for someone who will court you - wanting a relationship first does not make you any less submissive, despite what some insta doms might tell you.

I'm not into needles, but if I see a lot of needle play at a play party I don't get turned off BDSM - don't let other people's quick hookups turn you off either.

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RE: BDSM Relationships - Healthy? - 1/7/2012 9:28:14 PM

Casteele

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Eh.. I don't see what the big deal is here. Who has time these days for a long courtship? It's like this..

You walk in to an adult store looking for a new sex toy. You see one on the shelf that looks like it might be interesting and fun, so you give the label and box a once over, toss it in your basket, check out up front, and go home to give it a whirl and see if it's as good as you'd hoped. If it is, you stuff it under your pillow so you can pull it out any time you get the urge. If not, you bury it in the bottom of your sock drawer where you forget about it until some embarrassing moment when you mom pulls it out and ask "What on earth is THIS? It looks like some kind of sadistic cat torture device!?"

Vs.

You sign on to a kink dating website looking for a new play partner. You see a profile that looks promising, and after giving it a once over to check for any red flags, you mail them to meet you at some pay-by-the-hour motel, and head off to give them a whirl. If it's any good, you toss them in a collar and shackles to take home and lock them in the basement to take out whenever you feel the urge. If not, you bury the body in the back yard and plant a garden so the next time mom is over, you can give her a garden fresh home cooked meal.

::shrugs::

::ducks::

::runs for the nearest bomb shelter before the salvos start coming in::

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RE: BDSM Relationships - Healthy? - 1/8/2012 5:23:36 AM

fragilepieces

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quote:

In the old days, we'd meet and talk. If it was at a dance, we might dance. Then we'd date. Things would progress linearly until the man proposed.

Seriously Steven if you read historical books in depth this is WHAT people wanted you to think---one of the first things I said when some elders of my fathers side of the family published a book on the history of our family was that wow there were a great deal of 6-7 month pregnancies back then.

People met and fucked rather quickly and darted to the alter before the baby popped out. This happened right up til the late 70's right into the 80's when birth control became easier to obtain---you know where you could walk into a drug store and grab a box of condoms without fear the druggist would be on the phone with your mother. Our ancestors were just as highly sexed as we are and they did not have choice of phone sex, cyber sex, blow up dolls, vibrators and a host of porn to stimulate them either.

As for BDSM courtship---it is sort of sexual based--at least it requires touch of some sort so yes it would makes sense that things moved quickly however, even in the vanilla world people meet fuck and move into together just as quickly as here in this arena. I think it all depends on the people involved and not the type of relationship the people are involved in.

I consider the months that I spoke to my partner online as a 'courtship' of sorts and NOPE we never did any sort of cyber or phone sex. We talked about sex but never did any of that until we met. I know that when I went to see him I was already crazy about him...sex on the first meet was natural.

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