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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 1:00:22 AM

Hippiekinkster

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Here's a sentence from someone on another site:
"I the US and the Western country more people poor are from over being weight then from starvation."

Tell me again how grammar is unimportant.

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Post #: 21

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 2:46:14 AM

LizDeluxe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
It's very possible for someone to be intelligent and not a good writer but it is highly unlikely that a person who writes impeccably is riding the short bus.

Hold your cards. We have a bingo.

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Post #: 22

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 4:24:33 AM

FrostedFlake

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There is spellign. there's capitalization. Theres' punctuation. There grammer is. Syntax is there.

There is paragraphology. There are sum words that sound like others. And there are words the like no one has ever seen.

All of which are forgivable if you say what you mean, clearly and effectively, without making a fool of yourself.

However, as Hillwilliam noted, "A smart chicken knows better than cross the road".

Aaaand, you can quote me.

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Post #: 23

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 5:08:00 AM

xssve

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Because English Lit majors are snobs.

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 5:16:57 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why do people assume someone's ability to write, type, spell, use punctuation, ect, are indicative of intelligence?

Could it be that people can be smart yet not write very well?

I know some very wonderful, smart, creative and compassionate people who do not write well.

I make allowances for - even severe - dyslexia and for logical disabilities. (In fact, I got smashed once by Mod XI way back when the continuous conflicts that I had with another poster caused me to suspect that these misunderstandings were caused by a logical disability and when I consequently asked the other poster, in order to rule out the alternative of dyslexia, whether he was dyslectic. The other poster denied being dyslectic and that sufficed for me. Then I got smashed. It came out of the blue and I was flabbergasted.)

I do mind carelessness.

It also becomes rather soon pretty obvious at which level(s) or in which mode(s) a poster functions. There are the gray masses and those who shine.

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Post #: 25

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 5:44:36 AM

Moonhead

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Actually, it's more that English Lit majors take a dim view of people who can't be bothered to make any attempt to use the language correctly. That isn't snobbery any more than the numerate looking down on people who have to take their shoes off to count to twenty, I'm afraid.

One thing the OP (and most of the debate since, though Hill at least touches on it) misses, is that there's usually a correlation between godawful written English and godawful spoken English. Most people who insist on using txt spk, don't speak the language any better either. There's chavs whose conversational grasp of the language is even worse than their prose skills, and while that may not be proof of stupidity, it is a display of ignorance (often deliberately cultivated and encouraged ignorance) and they deserve contempt rather than allowances over that.

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 5:45:24 AM

stellauk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why do people assume someone's ability to write, type, spell, use punctuation, ect, are indicative of intelligence?

Because people make assumptions about people based on superficial information - appearance, gender, body size, the way they communicate, etc - and some don't make enough effort to modify or challenge those assumptions later on.

< Message edited by stellauk -- 1/10/2012 5:46:49 AM >

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 5:48:24 AM

Moonhead

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Also: we think in language (the Whorff hypothesis isn't just for Trekkies: there's at least a bit of circumstantial evidence for it), so if your skills with your native language aren't up to scratch, then it's quite possible that your cognitive skills are going to take a hiding as well. Try deliberately reducing your vocabulary for a week or so, and see if you feel any smarter afterwards. Simplifying your use of the language will simplify your thought processes as well, sadly.

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Post #: 28

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 5:50:00 AM

Fetters4U

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Knot awl Domain ants czar ill litter eight. Sum Czech they're pro files. Sum checker there male two!! (Aye checkered. Ah gut too bawls! Eye ham deaf finitely mail!! )

'Nuff said....

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 6:04:39 AM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Actually, it's more that English Lit majors take a dim view of people who can't be bothered to make any attempt to use the language correctly. That isn't snobbery any more than the numerate looking down on people who have to take their shoes off to count to twenty, I'm afraid.

One thing the OP (and most of the debate since, though Hill at least touches on it) misses, is that there's usually a correlation between godawful written English and godawful spoken English. Most people who insist on using txt spk, don't speak the language any better either. There's chavs whose conversational grasp of the language is even worse than their prose skills, and while that may not be proof of stupidity, it is a display of ignorance (often deliberately cultivated and encouraged ignorance) and they deserve contempt rather than allowances over that.

Lit major huh.

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Post #: 30

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 6:10:36 AM

Moonhead

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Post #: 31

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 6:29:33 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

Perhaps they are using such a program. However I don't hold that against them. They are obviously smart enough to realize a deficiency and utilize a mechanical (well electronic) aid to overcome it. This is hardly different from using spell check or a calculator.

Then you are saying that smart and intelligent are not necessarily the same thing.

Someone can be extremely smart, but not very intelligent.

Someone can be extremely intelligent, but not very smart.

I have met men with only an 8th grade education that I would rather spend time with than some people with PhD's.

Pretension on a message boards seems more like an intellectually induced masturbatory exercise.

Do you seriously speak that way when with your friends and relaxing?

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 6:43:32 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScaryJello
... Collarme even goes so far as to underline words that it thinks are misspelled.

I'm almost positive that that is a browser add-on but, I could be wrong. I say this because I don't seem to have that underlining feature on my computer but, I have seen it on others.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am probably going to be echoing others but, I don't believe that poor spelling denotes lack of intelligence but I believe it can.

I think there are three kinds of people on the internet.

1) Intelligent people that are good communicators.
2) Intelligent people that aren't good communicators.
3) People who aren't as intelligent as some others and therefore, lack the ability to communicate effectively.

I think the first category speaks for itself (pun intended). I think that it is easier to recognize someone is intelligent if they are a good communicator.

I think the second category is a bit more intricate. When I got my first computer, it had been years since I had used the written word to any great extent and my spelling, grammar, syntax, etc. were all crap. I was mocked, incessently and people assumed that I lacked intelligence. Say what you want about me; that my ideas/opinions are ridiculous but, I don't believe myself to be unintelligent. I believe I fell into this second category, when I first got onto the internet.

I took some time and made the effort to re-train myself; to re-learn some of the things I had learned in school and I went even further because I wanted my message to get across as succinctly as possible.

The third category is even more problematic.

While I don't judge a person on their inability to spell or write, effectively, there are people whose posts I cannot bear. Not here, that I can think of off the top of my head but on another site, there's a few people that think that "kitty speek" or "text speak" and the like are cute and a good way to communicate. They don't seem to understand that communicating in that manner can be problematic. I believe that their indulgence in and defense of such communication speaks more to the kind of person they are than to their intelligence but, for some of them, I believe it's the best they can do.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

ETA: In the interest of honesty, for some reason, I cuss a lot more, when I speak than when I type. I swear that's not a conscious decision, it's just the way it works out and I have always believed that "Swearing is a sign of a confused mind, trying to express itself".

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 1/10/2012 7:27:19 AM >

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Post #: 33

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 6:52:50 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Again....

How do you know how intelligent someone is by posts? They could be utilizing such a program... and be dumber than a box of rocks.

My ex roommate was dumber than a box of rocks and he still knew how to use spell check and ask me to proof his emails. So you have a good point. On the other hand when I see a post that says something like...

"i am well educated am looking for domme teach me to submit"

I have to wonder just what they mean by "well educated"

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Post #: 34

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 6:56:31 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fetters4U

Knot awl Domain ants czar ill litter eight. Sum Czech they're pro files. Sum checker there male two!! (Aye checkered. Ah gut too bawls! Eye ham deaf finitely mail!! )

'Nuff said....

Could we get a translation here please

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Post #: 35

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 6:56:33 AM

xssve

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I'm pretty glib but I can't type for shit.

Took me two tries to write that sentence.

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Post #: 36

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 7:03:02 AM

crazyml

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Because they are.

They're indicators of intelligence (or lack thereof).

They're not the only indicators, but they are certainly indicators.

Being indicators, they're not definitive, but, someone who cannot string a sentence together without mutilating the English language is more likely to be thick than someone who writes like an angel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I often see people complaining about someone's intelligence level displayed in a post and it makes me think... "Just how the hell do you know how smart, or dumb, someone is by the written word?"

Err... I think that, a lot of the time, it's pretty obvious.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Again....

How do you know how intelligent someone is by posts? They could be utilizing such a program... and be dumber than a box of rocks.

You don't "know" how intelligent someone is, but you can have a pretty good clue. There are plenty of posts out there that have been spell checked (and subjected to the brutal and rudimentary grammar checking that programs like Word provide) but where the writer is plainly a dumbass.

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Post #: 37

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 7:10:36 AM

Epytropos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

It's very possible for someone to be intelligent and not a good writer but it is highly unlikely that a person who writes impeccably is riding the short bus.

Don't get me started on "TXT SPK" I automatically deduct 15 IQ points when I see it and 30 if they defend their use of it.

Damn, what will I do now? 15 points down and we're just entering the first quarter. I guess I'll just comfort myself by remembering that efficient communication is more important than living up to the standards of strangers on the internet. (Oh, looks like 30 now!)

Anyway, I think it's more a correlation than a certainty. Most people see something which tends to be true and decide that just taking it as rote is more efficient than deciding on a case-by-case basis. People who write well tend to be brighter than those who don't, so the lazy or indifferent just start with that presumption. Sad, but if you don't especially care to have a 100% accurate picture of everyone you meet it saves time.

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Post #: 38

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 7:20:14 AM

ScaryJello

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
...
Someone can be extremely smart, but not very intelligent.

Someone can be extremely intelligent, but not very smart.

I have met men with only an 8th grade education that I would rather spend time with than some people with PhD's.

Pretension on a message boards seems more like an intellectually induced masturbatory exercise.

Do you seriously speak that way when with your friends and relaxing?

Do I speak in what fashion with my friends?

Do I use proper English? Yes, however my friends and I tend to debate subjects ranging from philosophy to politics to guns to video games. We cover a wide range of subjects and I try to surround myself with intelligent people. We disagree on many subjects and are constantly debating and attempting to convince the other as to the veracity of our point of view.

Do I always speak in formal English using logical arguments and modes? No, however I do my best to avoid using improper English. My work has me constantly traveling and many people I meet can be potential customers and most speak English as a second language; as such proper English helps me to communicate efficiently with them.

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Post #: 39

RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 7:26:19 AM

ScaryJello

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+1 to Epytropos

A good grasp of English is not the only indicator of intelligence. It is merely one factor that I weigh. Granted, I tend to weigh it fairly heavily, but it is by no means the only factor that I take into account.

Like most things in life it is just one factor to be weighed when sizing up a person.

@stellauk
Everyone prejudges people. It is the reason we dress up for interviews, tend to speak formally when making first impressions in the business world and other such actions. Judging a wide variety of factors can give you an idea of things to expect from an individual. How they dress, talk, look, gender, socio-economic background, religious background and such can be used to give you an estimate of how a person will behave or think, but it is by no means definitive. They are merely indicators of probability. They are not definite.

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