RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran?

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popeye1250 -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 9:08:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR Military service has absolutely nothing to do with one's ability to lead a nation. Having served in the military does not guarantee that person's mental stability and in fact has proven (as we have all seen) that it can in fact deteriorate the mental stability of those who return to civilian life. The symptoms PTSD are but one example. Government is not a military, it is a business! It would be much better served by a business savvy leader. Most of the young people today who join the military do so, so that they can get an education and have a job for a few years along with getting valuable experience to apply when they enter the public job sector. Just because any of these people were in a given branch of military service doesn't automatically make them any more or less qualified to be POTUS, than anyone who has never joined the military. Yet somehow pops you seem to think that being trained to squeeze a trigger makes them all the smarter for the job. Unless they can make to the highest ranks (think General) of service where they might actually lead, I fail to see any logic in your reasoning. So then you think that someone having gone to Harvard or "Yale" is "qualified" to be president because they read a bunch of books, right? "Hi-Ho Troops! Off to the polo fields to crush Harvard!" Yup, battle hardened.

Moonhead -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 9:11:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead I know they were: that's why I pointed out that the sudden change of tune when the GOP scraped up somebody who'd sold out his country after trashing six or seven jets was a bit of a hypocritical u turn. Just chiming in......[:D] Harshing McCain tho is a bit unfair. He did his best given what his situation was.During one one his torture sessions,he was hung by his hands that were tied behind his back.Even the strongest man will eventually have his arms folded up backward from their body weight,causing one or both shoulder joints to dislocate,break,tear and injure. He never got them treated and to this day,can`t raise his arms above his head. The man deserves respect and our thanks,even if he saw little action.Just surviving what those POWs did makes them heros, IMHO.Having his body broken and burned was just one of the horrors he survived at the hands of the VC. I disagree on that bit, I'm afraid. No question what was done to Sorebutt as a POW was abominable. However, what percentage of his peers who were subjected to enhanced interrogation made propaganda broadcasts?

Owner59 -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 9:12:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR Military service has absolutely nothing to do with one's ability to lead a nation. Having served in the military does not guarantee that person's mental stability and in fact has proven (as we have all seen) that it can in fact deteriorate the mental stability of those who return to civilian life. The symptoms PTSD are but one example. Government is not a military, it is a business! It would be much better served by a business savvy leader. Most of the young people today who join the military do so, so that they can get an education and have a job for a few years along with getting valuable experience to apply when they enter the public job sector. Just because any of these people were in a given branch of military service doesn't automatically make them any more or less qualified to be POTUS, than anyone who has never joined the military. Yet somehow pops you seem to think that being trained to squeeze a trigger makes them all the smarter for the job. Unless they can make to the highest ranks (think General) of service where they might actually lead, I fail to see any logic in your reasoning. So then you think that someone having gone to Harvard or "Yale" is "qualified" to be president because they read a bunch of books, right? "Hi-Ho Troops! Off to the polo fields to crush Harvard!" Yup, battle hardened. I don`t think anyone`s claimed that. Maybe you can explain why it is that President Obama has been successful as CIC and why bush was such a disaster,given they both went to Yale.

Owner59 -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 9:26:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead I know they were: that's why I pointed out that the sudden change of tune when the GOP scraped up somebody who'd sold out his country after trashing six or seven jets was a bit of a hypocritical u turn. Just chiming in......[:D] Harshing McCain tho is a bit unfair. He did his best given what his situation was.During one one his torture sessions,he was hung by his hands that were tied behind his back.Even the strongest man will eventually have his arms folded up backward from their body weight,causing one or both shoulder joints to dislocate,break,tear and injure. He never got them treated and to this day,can`t raise his arms above his head. The man deserves respect and our thanks,even if he saw little action.Just surviving what those POWs did makes them heros, IMHO.Having his body broken and burned was just one of the horrors he survived at the hands of the VC. I disagree on that bit, I'm afraid. No question what was done to Sorebutt as a POW was abominable. However, what percentage of his peers who were subjected to enhanced interrogation made propaganda broadcasts? I don`t know everything and don`t imagine I know everything but I know I`m no one to pass judgement on someone who was broken by torture.

Raiikun -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 9:33:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Raiikun and I had this discussion before. He and willbe kept insisting it was due to the trust funds. They insisted those funds were part of the Unified budget... they havent been since 1990. Not entering that debate. Simply noting that the source he cited doesn't say what he claims. Erm, yes it does. Go to the U.S. Treasury website: http://www.treasury.gov/ Scroll to the "Bureaus" section and click on "Bureau of the Public Debt" which takes you to http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/ Scroll down to the section "The U.S. Public Debt" and click on "See the U.S. Public Debt to the Penny." Check the years in question, and you can calculate these results from the data: FY . . . .Ending. . . . . Debt . . . . . . . . . .Deficit FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion

xssve -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 10:02:04 AM)
No, the military mind is disciplined by training, most military types cannot comprehend or long tolerate the ridiculous shit that civilians say and do.

Lucylastic -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 10:10:47 AM)
nm:)

popeye1250 -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 10:54:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 What type of "honor" does someone like Newt Gingrich or Bill Clinton bring to the table never having served in uniform? Abraham Lincoln never served in uniform...... Oside, good point but I was kind of talking present tense here. What's done is done. I was pondering that maybe it might be a good thing for future presidents to be military veterans. I don't much care for that term "leader" or "leadership" as it's applied to civilian life. By that definition if you ran the cookie drive at your church that'd make you a "leader." How many Civil War statues do you see where an accountant or college professor is riding on the horse with a pencil instead of a sword? And how many people in this country need to be told what to do by some faceless beaurocrat with a big bum from sitting in a chair all day? Our government is there to serve The People not to try to tell us what to do! They're the hired help not the "management." They in Washington are supposed to be listening to us not us to them! Personaly I don't want a "president", I want a good manager.

Politesub53 -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 11:08:48 AM)
I have to smile Pops, what do you think many of those in the civil war, or any war come to that, were doing before hostilities started ?

Lucylastic -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 11:12:57 AM)
do not think you understand what GOVERNMENT means gov·ern·ment/ˈgəvər(n)mənt/ Noun: The governing body of a nation, state, or community. The system by which a nation, state, or community is governed. Synonyms: administration - rule - management - ministry - reign You dont want to be managed? dont live in a governed country But you want to have a MANAGER you are going to have to make up your mind

Hillwilliam -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 11:17:57 AM)
We've had great presidents who weren't vets and crappy ones who were and everything in between. I don't see it becoming a requirement.

Lucylastic -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 11:19:16 AM)
I dont either, not in a civilised country at least:) [;)]

Moonhead -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 11:36:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead I know they were: that's why I pointed out that the sudden change of tune when the GOP scraped up somebody who'd sold out his country after trashing six or seven jets was a bit of a hypocritical u turn. Just chiming in......[:D] Harshing McCain tho is a bit unfair. He did his best given what his situation was.During one one his torture sessions,he was hung by his hands that were tied behind his back.Even the strongest man will eventually have his arms folded up backward from their body weight,causing one or both shoulder joints to dislocate,break,tear and injure. He never got them treated and to this day,can`t raise his arms above his head. The man deserves respect and our thanks,even if he saw little action.Just surviving what those POWs did makes them heros, IMHO.Having his body broken and burned was just one of the horrors he survived at the hands of the VC. I disagree on that bit, I'm afraid. No question what was done to Sorebutt as a POW was abominable. However, what percentage of his peers who were subjected to enhanced interrogation made propaganda broadcasts? I don`t know everything and don`t imagine I know everything but I know I`m no one to pass judgement on someone who was broken by torture. Which does you great credit. My own feeling: if Sorebutt had been yanked as a pilot after the first two or three jets he wrecked arsing about (as anybody with a less distinguished naval family history surely would have) then he wouldn't have been shot down by the dinks in the first place, would he?

Moonhead -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 12:04:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 So then you think that someone having gone to Harvard or "Yale" is "qualified" to be president because they read a bunch of books, right? Somebody's failure to pass his college entrance exam is showing again, isn't it?

ScaryJello -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 12:24:30 PM)
Speaking as a military veteran (six years in the USAF and I was an NCO) I think that it is a terrible idea to make military service a requirement. Simply serving in the military does not make a person a qualified leader. In no way does it mystically imbue the person with the knowledge required to lead a nation. There is no secret training on economic strategy or foreign relations. There is no Top Secret course on domestic policy or pros and cons of abortion. Requiring military service is as ludicrous as requiring that he have been a postal carrier or a dog groomer. It is silly and a very slippery slope to start down.

Lucylastic -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 12:28:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ScaryJello Speaking as a military veteran (six years in the USAF and I was an NCO) I think that it is a terrible idea to make military service a requirement. Simply serving in the military does not make a person a qualified leader. In no way does it mystically imbue the person with the knowledge required to lead a nation. There is no secret training on economic strategy or foreign relations. There is no Top Secret course on domestic policy or pros and cons of abortion. Requiring military service is as ludicrous as requiring that he have been a postal carrier or a dog groomer. It is silly and a very slippery slope to start down. What you said:) altho I do not have military experience, my hubby was in the army for 12 years, he thought the OPs question was a sick joke

ConfidencePlays -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 12:38:44 PM)
As far as politicians go, of all branches and levels.. I'd prefer they were at least required to -not- be batshit fucking loco... It would be -nice- if they weren't more corrupt than the people they were supposed to govern... but no, military service should not be a requirement for public office.

tazzygirl -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 12:58:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Raiikun and I had this discussion before. He and willbe kept insisting it was due to the trust funds. They insisted those funds were part of the Unified budget... they havent been since 1990. Not entering that debate. Simply noting that the source he cited doesn't say what he claims. Erm, yes it does. Go to the U.S. Treasury website: http://www.treasury.gov/ Scroll to the "Bureaus" section and click on "Bureau of the Public Debt" which takes you to http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/ Scroll down to the section "The U.S. Public Debt" and click on "See the U.S. Public Debt to the Penny." Check the years in question, and you can calculate these results from the data: FY . . . .Ending. . . . . Debt . . . . . . . . . .Deficit FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion Did you look at his link? http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04485sp.pdf Figure 8. I will wait till you do.

joether -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 1:08:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Raiikun and I had this discussion before. He and willbe kept insisting it was due to the trust funds. They insisted those funds were part of the Unified budget... they havent been since 1990. Not entering that debate. Simply noting that the source he cited doesn't say what he claims. Erm, yes it does. Go to the U.S. Treasury website: http://www.treasury.gov/ Scroll to the "Bureaus" section and click on "Bureau of the Public Debt" which takes you to http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/ Scroll down to the section "The U.S. Public Debt" and click on "See the U.S. Public Debt to the Penny." Check the years in question, and you can calculate these results from the data: FY . . . .Ending. . . . . Debt . . . . . . . . . .Deficit FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion Perhaps you could point out this page directly? I went to Bureau of the Public Debt and I didnt see a link pointing to the information your posting here. My recollection of history (as is most people's) is most folks is different from yours it seems. The last year alone under the Clinton Administration budget was over $200 billion surplus amount (actually approaching $300 billion). The numbers you cite are going up rather than down, which goes against the history books.

popeye1250 -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 1:13:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ScaryJello Speaking as a military veteran (six years in the USAF and I was an NCO) I think that it is a terrible idea to make military service a requirement. Simply serving in the military does not make a person a qualified leader. In no way does it mystically imbue the person with the knowledge required to lead a nation. There is no secret training on economic strategy or foreign relations. There is no Top Secret course on domestic policy or pros and cons of abortion. Requiring military service is as ludicrous as requiring that he have been a postal carrier or a dog groomer. It is silly and a very slippery slope to start down. Jello, so I can put you in the "no" column then?

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