RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (Full Version)

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subrob1967 -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:35:28 PM)

FR
No, the answer is no.



tazzygirl -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:38:22 PM)

It didnt. The Budget is based upon income minus outgoing. Simple math. That 17.9 billion came into play in the Treasury itself... after the budget is balanced. The law clearly states any surplus is to be reinvested back into Treasury holdings.

Section 3111 of title 31, United States Code, authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to use money received
from the sale of an obligation and other money in the general fund of the Treasury to buy, redeem, or refund, at or
before maturity, outstanding bonds, notes, certificates of indebtedness, Treasury bills, or savings certificates of the
U.S. Government. During fiscal 2000, the Secretary of the Treasury authorized the redemption of $21.3 billion of
outstanding unmatured marketable Treasury securities at a premium of $5.5 billion. These early redemption
transactions are known as Treasury “buybacks.” The net change of the Federal debt securities held by the public
during fiscal 2000 includes $21.2 billion related to these buybacks.

and

Now that the Federal Government has achieved budget surpluses coupled with projections of continuing surpluses, focus has started to shift to the impact of the surpluses on the Federal debt. While we have had 3 consecutive years of budget surpluses, it is important to understand the composition of budget surpluses, and the relationship that these excess funds have had on reducing or changing the composition of the Federal debt. There are two components of Federal debt: debt held by the public and intragovernmental holdings.

That 17.9 Billion is from... wait for it... Treasury Securities. This is an after budget expense.



Musicmystery -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:40:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually, I'm reporting on what you're doing, not ad hominem at all. Look that your posts.


Actually the ad hominem was "You don't think anything."

And, my posts were in direct response to you trying to claim that my data didn't exist. I figured maybe it was drilled into your head enough you'd finally get it, and since you've moved on, it looks like it worked.

quote:

And how about the inflation point? You don't want to look at the data in that light either, though it's how we'd compare any other costs year to year.


But then you go and invent ANOTHER strawman. So, back to reality yet again:

Adjusting the national debt for inflation is valid for comparing the debt load of the federal government but it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the federal government had a surplus a given year. If you spend more than you take in in a given year, you have a deficit even if your relative debt load went down because of inflation. Explained numerically, let's say you owe $50,000, earn $30,000, and spend $31,000 (debt load=50,000/30,000=167%)--that leaves you with a deficit of $1000 so that the following year you owe $51,000. The next year inflation is 5% so you now earn $31,500 and spend $32,550 with a deficit of $1,050. $31,500 in earnings with a $51,000 debt is a 162% debt load--so your relative debt load went down thanks entirely to inflation but you still had a deficit of $1,050 that year and your debt continued to grow.

In fact, you STILL haven't addressed this. You just dance and dance and dance. I didn't deny your data at all--I explained you error. "No! My Chart!" is as far as you've gotten. With a little "I did too!" No, you didn't.

So..you make up an inflation example...and want to cry "reality." Reality doesn't need to be invented. We have the data.

Tell you what. Let's even use your narrow data.

FY . . . .Ending. . . . . Debt . . . . . . . . . .Deficit................adjusted for inflation (2010 dollars)
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion...................................$6.57 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion.............$6.81 trillion....$408.35 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion.............$7.05 trillion....$398.35 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion.............$7.19 trillion....$344.94 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion.............$7.32 trillion....$254.67 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion.............$7.35 trillion....$150.46 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion.............$7.33 trillion....$168.57 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion...............$7.11 trillion.... $22.45 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion ............$7.16 trillion......$164.42 billion

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

Now, if you next claim inflation doesn't matter, then this discussion is even dumber than it already appears (insisting on one component of the budget to the exclusion of others--who gets to budget that way???)

Not to mention that income matters, and GDP climbed and climbed and climbed.




Raiikun -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:41:03 PM)

The numbers reported by the Bureau of the Public Debt don't agree.



tazzygirl -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:42:43 PM)

My numbers came straight from the Treasury Department.

http://fms.treas.gov/fr/00frusg/00frusg.pdf

A MESSAGE FROM THE
SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY

I am pleased to present the fiscal year 2000 Financial Report of the United States Government. The Report
includes audited financial statements that cover the executive branch, as well as parts of the legislative and judicial
branches of U.S. Government. This is the fourth report issued pursuant to the Federal Financial Management Act of
1994. Our goal is to present the activities of the U.S. Government in a timely, accurate, and professional manner.
Developing the capability for the Government to produce financial reports in accordance with generally accepted
accounting principles continues to be an enormous task.

The U.S. Government is again reporting an accrual-based surplus, which this year is $46 billion.
Additionally, this past year the size of the Federal debt held by the public has been reduced by $223 billion. All 24
major agencies completed their financial statements on time and the quality of their reporting continues to improve.
The Joint Financial Management Improvement Program has established a Governmentwide financial software
certification process that is beginning to ensure that commercial systems being purchased by the Federal
Government meet its requirements.



Raiikun -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:43:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
In fact, you STILL haven't addressed this.


So you quote where I address inflation, then claim I didn't address it?

Wow.



Raiikun -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:44:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My numbers came straight from the Treasury Department.


Once again, as does mine, from as pure and unadulterated source as one can get.



tazzygirl -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:46:58 PM)

Your's is reporting the included 17.9 from the Treasury itself. What you arent wanting to see is that the 17.9 Billion was not spent by the Government as part of its budget, but because of a requirement, based upon law in regards to surpluses, by the Treasury.



Musicmystery -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:47:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
In fact, you STILL haven't addressed this.


So you quote where I address inflation, then claim I didn't address it?

Wow.


Incredible. I said...
quote:

So..you make up an inflation example...and want to cry "reality." Reality doesn't need to be invented. We have the data.

Made up.

I then gave you the real data, YOUR OWN CHART you've been waving about for pages now, adjusted for inflation.

Right. You didn't address it. You made up data. And you don't want to hear the real data, EVEN WHEN IT'S YOUR OWN DATA.

[image]http://barnesjewishhospital.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/man-with-fingers-in-ears.jpg[/image]

Wow indeed.

Here endeth the lesson.

Tell you what. Let's even use your narrow data.

FY . . . .Ending. . . . . Debt . . . . . . . . . .Deficit................adjusted for inflation (2010 dollars)
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion...................................$6.57 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion.............$6.81 trillion....$408.35 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion.............$7.05 trillion....$398.35 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion.............$7.19 trillion....$344.94 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion.............$7.32 trillion....$254.67 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion.............$7.35 trillion....$150.46 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion.............$7.33 trillion....$168.57 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion...............$7.11 trillion.... $22.45 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion ............$7.16 trillion......$164.42 billion

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi



Hillwilliam -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:48:39 PM)

Could y'all get on topic?.....please?



tazzygirl -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:50:42 PM)

Sorry Hill. He is stubborn about not wanting to understand the difference. Im done. [:D]



Musicmystery -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:50:46 PM)

Sorry. Apologies.



Raiikun -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:52:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Right. You didn't address it. You made up data. And you don't want to hear the real data, EVEN WHEN IT'S YOUR OWN DATA.


And yet ANOTHER STRAWMAN. Can you make a single argument without making up this bullshit? I addressed it, it's right there.

Yes, I know that if I borrow $1000 in 2000, that in 2010 that the debt load adjusted would be $784.00.

I addressed that in my response that you claim didn't address it.

But even if adjusted for inflation it's $784, the debt collectors would still be asking for $1000. I'm not dismissing the importance of adjusting for inflation, just pointing out correctly that it still does not change the FACT that the debt still went up each year.



VideoAdminGamma -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 3:57:18 PM)

This is the OP for those that need a refresher:


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I was reading another thread about Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich and I was thinking that if presidential candidates were required to be military veterans maybe , just maybe we could by-pass the "deutch bag" factor.
What type of "honor" does someone like Newt Gingrich or Bill Clinton bring to the table never having served in uniform?
And, (I love this!) they're always throwing around the word, "leader" or "leadership" all the time!
Is being a little league coach considered "leadership?"
They don't realize that being president is a management job.
If you want real, fully involved, harsh leadership experience then join the military. That's where leaders come from.
Leaders are afraid too but they do their jobs sometimes under extreme conditions.
If you wanted to go into politics why wouldn't you want that experience behind you?
Wouldn't you trust a Master Seargeant in that job before someone like Bill Clinton or Barak Obama, Newt Gingrich et al?
What say you?




tazzygirl -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 4:08:06 PM)

Sorry Gamma, I am done copying this to the other thread if you would like to clean up. [:)]



slvemike4u -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 4:11:04 PM)

No...nothing more....just no.



Rule -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 4:33:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
I was reading another thread about Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich and I was thinking that if presidential candidates were required to be military veterans maybe , just maybe we could by-pass the "deutch bag" factor.

You want one of them crazy war veterans like Rambo for president? Or just one of them guys who spent the Vietnam war in the military reserve in Idaho or Kansas? Or one of them guys who flew at three thousand meters above the enemy and valiantly pushed the bomb-away button?

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
What type of "honor" does someone like Newt Gingrich or Bill Clinton bring to the table never having served in uniform?

Hey! Clinton did not inhale! (But he **** many **** of **** through Arkansas. Evil will be rewarded, not so?)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
And, (I love this!) they're always throwing around the word, "leader" or "leadership" all the time!
Is being a little league coach considered "leadership?"
They don't realize that being president is a management job.

President Reagan was senile during his latter years in function. He did quite well, not so?

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
If you want real, fully involved, harsh leadership experience then join the military. That's where leaders come from.

[sm=rofl.gif]
Appointed leaders that lead by force of law. They are not natural leaders who attract their own men.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Leaders are afraid too but they do their jobs sometimes under extreme conditions.

Lots of people live under extreme conditions. Go ask any beggar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
If you wanted to go into politics why wouldn't you want that experience behind you?
Wouldn't you trust a Master Seargeant in that job before someone like Bill Clinton or Barak Obama, Newt Gingrich et al?

No, exceptions excluded Master Sergeants can lead platoons but they cannot lead countries. A baker would be a better choice: he knows how much the flour costs and he can exterminate mice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
What say you?

All or nearly all of your presidents were drawn out of a stacked deck. And if they did not do as they were told, they were murdered. And if you elected the wrong guy, the votes were recounted and recounted until you elected the right guy.



Miserlou -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 5:17:26 PM)

i say no. its a ridiculous idea.



Owner59 -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 6:31:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dont either, not in a civilised country at least:) [;)]

One of the most important things the founders wanted to enshrine in our Constitution and way of life was civilian control of our military.


Smart bunch those guys.



xBullx -> RE: Should a presidential candidate be required to be a military veteran? (1/10/2012 6:32:24 PM)

I've got a fair number of years military service, and I don't see where simply having served is all that promising as a vetting process. I was obliged to follow more than one moron simply because of circumstance. So no I don't believe it should be a legal requirement. Frankly most Generals I've know were self important, self righteous and self serving assholes; and it seems many try and evaluate which of those ego maniacs would be a great President.

That being said I do believe that we should weigh any and all prior experience of any would be president. And considering one of his most important and most weighty jobs is that of CINC I'd say he needs more than just a good advisor when pondering the fate of so many.

I do have other knowledge that lead me to believe a President needs to know the art of war and how to manage warriors, but that brings up memories of inter-service appeasement, a weak President, an assembly area know as Desert One and what can inspire a cluster fuck.

It shouldn't need to be a law, but it should be damn important to us as voters.



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