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RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:13:14 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

to the deprivation of any rights, privileges or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws


And, in fact, the jailed are entitled to all these rights, privileges, immunities...they are allowed to use the roads, even in their buggies.

I wonder if they have annual inspections? I do, required by law. I wonder if the vehicles are registered. Mine is. I wonder if they are required to pay insurance. I am. I'm also required to have working tail lights.

An orange triangle? Hardly religious oppression. Not like it marks them as Amish or Mennenites...every farm tractor and wagon here has the same requirement.




a farm is classified as a business.

Allowed to use what they own?

They travel, that which you do not understand.

Travelling is not driving.

Driving is commercial

I proved that with shit loads of cases in previous threads.

Why do you simply ignore the law and court decisions that do not support your egostical unauthorized need to trespass on others rights?


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/14/2012 9:14:06 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:15:05 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I proved that with shit loads of cases in previous threads.

You absolutely have not. In fact, you have never met necessary and sufficient conditions for 'proof' of any of your quasi-legalities or dismal physics.   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:17:54 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		RealOne,  There are reasons vehicles are required by law to have headlights and taillights, and you can get pulled over and cited if either of them are not working order especially after dark. They are part of the LAWS to USE said roads they are traveling upon.    THEY, the AMISH, are compromising THEIR religious beliefs by utilizing said roads because of how many of them are made.   If that is the case, then outfitting their vehicles to adhere to the LAWS of using those roads is part of the main compromise they are making to use those roads.  If they refuse then by all means they should be given the consequences any and all users of those roads who break the laws have to deal with.

Yeah, i know its easy to scream religious freedom but attempting to condition what laws they have to follow when they compromise their religious beliefs in utilizing something like the public roads -- nope, sorry, to me, that is where religious rights and freedoms become distorts into people playing on religion to get out of following laws.

angel



_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:18:15 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I proved that with shit loads of cases in previous threads.

You absolutely have not. In fact, you have never met necessary and sufficient conditions for 'proof' of any of your quasi-legalities or dismal physics.   


no one can prove anything to you now can they, so you coming in here and saying no you have not is like an alcoholic saying they only have wee nip now and then.

911 dismissed physics, well rewrote it actually.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:19:04 AM   
Clickofheels


Posts: 603
Joined: 10/23/2011
Status: offline 		"I wonder if they pay insurance?"

That reminds me of the checker at the Walmart store who asked the Amish ladies for a "picture I.D." Too funny....

(in reply to Clickofheels)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:19:30 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

a farm is classified as a business.

Allowed to use what they own?

They travel, that which you do not understand.

Travelling is not driving.


And they ARE allowed to use what they own, and they ARE allowed to travel.

They are required to put an orange triangle on a slow moving vehicle.

YOU want to make this about one of your pet arguments, and no one is arguing that.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:21:07 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels

If the Amish are "driving out of control," then why would a "slow moving vehicle" sign be necessary on their buggies?

And as for "being a public hazard?" Aren't we in fact ALL guilty of that just by getting behind the wheels of our vehicles???

No one is driving out of control here except in Real One's invented argument.

Yes, we are all public hazards--and we are all required to have working tail lights.

(in reply to Clickofheels)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:24:29 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

RealOne,  There are reasons vehicles are required by law to have headlights and taillights, and you can get pulled over and cited if either of them are not working order especially after dark. They are part of the LAWS to USE said roads they are traveling upon.    THEY, the AMISH, are compromising THEIR religious beliefs by utilizing said roads because of how many of them are made.   If that is the case, then outfitting their vehicles to adhere to the LAWS of using those roads is part of the main compromise they are making to use those roads.  If they refuse then by all means they should be given the consequences any and all users of those roads who break the laws have to deal with.

Yeah, i know its easy to scream religious freedom but attempting to condition what laws they have to follow when they compromise their religious beliefs in utilizing something like the public roads -- nope, sorry, to me, that is where religious rights and freedoms become distorts into people playing on religion to get out of following laws.

angel




You got your law completely backwards.

thats what deMOBcrapper mindset does to people.

I said earlier horses and buggies were here and have if nothing else grandfather rights to any of the motorized crap you want to use.

Just because the commercial MOB sits down and sez well boys weeez a gonna make some lews today does not mean lews made respect anyones rights.

I meet amish on the roads all the time and have no problem day or night seeing them well in advance of any accident.

But then my vehicle IS under control.

what gives you the right to say FORCE them to comply with your atheist system when theirs has been here long before your suvs were even a possibility?




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:28:08 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels

If the Amish are "driving out of control," then why would a "slow moving vehicle" sign be necessary on their buggies?

And as for "being a public hazard?" Aren't we in fact ALL guilty of that just by getting behind the wheels of our vehicles???

No one is driving out of control here except in Real One's invented argument.

Yes, we are all public hazards--and we are all required to have working tail lights.


and your arguments are as out of control as your vehicles.

If they hit an amish vehicle on the roads it invariably is from behind, hence driving to fast for conditions.

Here they have signs up warning of popularly traveled Amish areas.

Gee but we cant have that now can we?  I mean solutions that RESPECT SOMEONES RIGHTS in your world now can we?





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:28:20 AM   
Clickofheels


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Joined: 10/23/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



If their religious beliefs say driving out of control and being a public hazard is their spiritual path, they will find the law feels differently.


Um MM? I believe this statement was yours, if I posted this as a quote correctly...as I don't know how this is done for sure.

MsClick

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:32:06 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Oh good grief lol RealOne, no one is grandfathered into something if they are a safety hazard.  No one ever said that they couldn't USE the roads, but grandfathering in doesn't mean they are exempt from following any and all laws with regard to using same.

But you still aren't addressing the comments of they are compromising THEIR OWN RELIGION, by USING the roads, yes?  I mean from what i understand their religion does not allow them ANY MODERN DAY conveniences and when they use same -- such as grocery stores and yep -- paved and modern day roads -- made and upkept by modern day conveniences, they are COMPROMISING their religion.

So the argument for me doesn't wash that that compromise doesn't include them following the laws of that road.  Religious freedom isn't about you only scream same when its convenient for you or when you don't want to follow the laws of to use something that by using same compromises your religion.

They choose to compromise their religion by using the roads for THEIR convenience, they can damn well follow the laws that allow their use of the roads to be safe for others when they are as well as themselves.

Don't preach religious freedom to me and start putting conditions on when and where that freedom can be utilized.

angel

PS lol and well just for the record, anyone who knows me tends to believe i am more Rep then Dem -- though i don't choose one over the other lol i am party naked.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 1/14/2012 9:35:02 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:33:24 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

to the deprivation of any rights, privileges or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress.

yip and yup.  privilige or immunitiy secured by the constitution and laws.....what would that be?

frivolous case so far, you got out of control tanks befuddling our roadways.   I need to see current video.


the constitution does more than secure whats UNDER it.  It agrees not to infringe on and to RESPECT rights that are not under or governed by it.

But then when has the gubafia ever honored a contract or promise?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/14/2012 9:34:03 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:33:53 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		what gives you the right to say FORCE them to comply with your atheist system when theirs has been here long before your suvs were even a possibility?

patently false.  the first mennonite/amish came to pennsylvania in the 18th century.

We were here first.   in 1920 the census was 5000 amish.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:37:19 AM   
Clickofheels


Posts: 603
Joined: 10/23/2011
Status: offline 		I forgot all about the road signs that inform drivers they are entering an area where Amish buggies are prevalent. And usually there are quite a few of them before entering a settlement area, as you are driving through, and even after you leave.

I still think what happened in Kentucky is an isolated case.

But as I said, I always enjoy finding out just how educated people are about the Amish. (Smiles)

Respectfully,
Ms Click

(in reply to Clickofheels)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:43:17 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Oh good grief lol RealOne, no one is grandfathered into something if they are a safety hazard.  No one ever said that they couldn't USE the roads, but grandfathering in doesn't mean they are exempt from following any and all laws with regard to using same.

But you still aren't addressing the comments of they are compromising THEIR OWN RELIGION, by USING the roads, yes?  I mean from what i understand their religion does not allow them ANY MODERN DAY conveniences and when they use same -- such as grocery stores and yep -- paved and modern day roads -- made and upkept by modern day conveniences, they are COMPROMISING their religion.

So the argument for me doesn't wash that that compromise doesn't include them following the laws of that road.  Religious freedom isn't about you only scream same when its convenient for you or when you don't want to follow the laws of to use something that by using same compromises your religion.

They choose to compromise their religion by using the roads for THEIR convenience, they can damn well follow the laws that allow their use of the roads to be safe for others when they are as well as themselves.

Don't preach religious freedom to me and start putting conditions on when and where that freedom can be utilized.

angel


Thats the problem THEY ARE NOT THE SAFETY HAZARD YOU ARE in your out of control motor vehicle but you want to punish them for your short coming!

You and your motors are what changed over time NOT them!  That is how grandfathering works!  THEY WERE HERE FIRST!   No argument you can make will change that!

They are exempt when those laws infringe upon their rights!  marbury v madison supreme court even said so!

No they are not compromising their rights by using the "COMMON WAY"

Its the common way because the only other way you can travel unlike in indian days is to trespass on someones property.

Just because you want to allow vehicles that are out of control on the common way does not mean you have the right to force them to obey you.  the evils of deMOBcracy.

Yes they have to put up with hard surfaced roads instead of dirt, you know that is a huge inconvenience for them do you not?

You are again misled.

They do not use the roads for their convenience they use the roads out of necessity unless you want them to travel across your lawns instead?

Ok so you do not feel anyone should have religious freedom either then.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:44:50 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



If their religious beliefs say driving out of control and being a public hazard is their spiritual path, they will find the law feels differently.


Um MM? I believe this statement was yours, if I posted this as a quote correctly...as I don't know how this is done for sure.

MsClick

*psst...irony intended*

(in reply to Clickofheels)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:47:45 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels

If the Amish are "driving out of control," then why would a "slow moving vehicle" sign be necessary on their buggies?

And as for "being a public hazard?" Aren't we in fact ALL guilty of that just by getting behind the wheels of our vehicles???

No one is driving out of control here except in Real One's invented argument.

Yes, we are all public hazards--and we are all required to have working tail lights.


and your arguments are as out of control as your vehicles.

If they hit an amish vehicle on the roads it invariably is from behind, hence driving to fast for conditions.

Here they have signs up warning of popularly traveled Amish areas.

Gee but we cant have that now can we?  I mean solutions that RESPECT SOMEONES RIGHTS in your world now can we?

And again, you are making up things so that you can argue.

If you hit someone from behind, WHATEVER the reason (barring an infraction on the part of another driver), YOU are at fault.

So again, you are arguing something that no one is arguing.

To prevent these mishaps, we use tail lights and orange triangles.

We also have laws governing speed and reckless driving.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/14/2012 9:48:19 AM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:52:32 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

a farm is classified as a business.

Allowed to use what they own?

They travel, that which you do not understand.

Travelling is not driving.


And they ARE allowed to use what they own, and they ARE allowed to travel.

They are required to put an orange triangle on a slow moving vehicle.

YOU want to make this about one of your pet arguments, and no one is arguing that.



a right is not something "ALLOWED" a privilege is allowed.

you have your law confused again.

you want to defer and duck out because you have no viable argument against me, its what you always do when you reached the end of your rope LOL





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:53:45 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		There is no argument to be made; nor neccessary; against frivolous accusations, they can be summarily dismissed.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Amish Jailed - 1/14/2012 9:53:47 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

But as I said, I always enjoy finding out just how educated people are about the Amish.


In fairness, your painting them all as uniform is as stereotypical and unrealistic.

People are people. They are individuals, even among a cohesive group.

(in reply to Clickofheels)
Profile   Post #: 80
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