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iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 4:36:41 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		Your iPhone Was Built, In Part, By 13 Year-Olds Working 16 Hours A Day For 70 Cents An Hour

We love our iPhones and iPads.

We love the prices of our iPhones and iPads.

We love the super-high profit margins of Apple, Inc., the maker of our iPhones and iPads.

And that's why it's disconcerting to remember that the low prices of our iPhones and iPads — and the super-high profit margins of Apple — are only possible because our iPhones and iPads are made with labor practices that would be illegal in the United States.

And it's also disconcerting to realize that the folks who make our iPhones and iPads not only don't have iPhones and iPads (because they can't afford them), but, in some cases, have never even seen them.

This is a complex issue. But it's also an important one. And it's only going to get more important as the world's economies continue to become more intertwined.

(And the issue obviously concerns a lot more companies than Apple. Almost all of the major electronics manufacturers make their stuff in China. One difference with Apple, though, is the magnitude of the company's profit margin and profits. Apple could afford to pay its manufacturers more or hold them to higher standards and still be extremely competitive and profitable.)

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-01-15/news/30628970_1_iphones-ipads-apple#ixzz1jffgC1Xh

Does this change how you feel about the iPhone?

Does it matter that children this young are building your products?

Does it affect you that they are making so little?

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 4:39:56 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Another reason to not own a cell phone....thank you. I hate the phone and this gave me another reason to hate them all.

< Message edited by MissImmortalPain -- 1/16/2012 4:40:23 PM >

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 4:44:55 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		I don't have an i phone or an i pad.
I do have a mobile phone, it's about 4 years old and I will replace it when it breaks or when it is no longer fit for purpose.
We are obsessed with toys, we are pissing away the earth's resourses on pointless toys.
I want the newest this
I must have the best this.
99% of people who have these toys have no idea how to use them effectively and have no real reason to buy them in the first place.
Should this be another thread?
Oh yeah, the kids should be at school instead of supplying the western world with shit it doesn't need, stop being so fucking greedy

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 4:46:19 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Add to that Coltan, a mineral mined in the Congo and funding the civil war there.

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 4:49:43 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		There are many products that are made in China that I boycott. Electronics are a tough one, though, because almost all electronics have at least some components that are made in China even if the whole product is not. If anyone knows of a comprehensive list by brand of electronics of where and how things are sourced, I would very much appreciate it.

In the meanwhile, I thought some of you might enjoy this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-460902/How-woman-said-No-Chinese-imports.html

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 4:49:45 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		To be honest, I dont know what 11.20 a day in China would provide. Anyone have an idea?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 5:05:29 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Moving manufacturing overseas to exploit what is virtually slave labor is disturbing for a lot of reasons.

On the other hand, I am not convinced that children who are now working at factories would be in school if the factories weren't there, any more than I am convinced that children who worked in factories during the industrial revolution in this country would have attended school if the factories weren't there.  Since many of the countries are extremely impoverished, the population has moved en masse from the countryside to the cities, and there are few resources for education, I think it is more likely that the children would be starving in the street.  I am certainly not advocating child labor, but think about it. 


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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 5:12:40 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		you have a valid point but it is no answer to the OP or my rant

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 5:13:29 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Thats sort of why I asked about the purchasing power of 11 dollars a day there.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 5:22:04 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Hardy, I am not sure how to answer a rant.  LOL.  But, fair point on not answering the OP, so:
Does this change how you feel about the iPhone?  Well, I do love my Iphone, and since it is an electronic device, I already knew it was made in a third world country.  I still love it, but like I said, importing manufacturing jobs overseas is very disturbing to me.  Would I be willing to spend the money to buy what it would cost if it was made here?  Hmmm.  Probably.  I often buy local products, even if they are more expensive.

Does it matter that children this young are building your products?  Of course. 

Does it affect you that they are making so little? I hate the thought of children suffering.  I believe they would be suffering anyway, though, since conditions are so tough in so many of those countries.  So, it does affect me, but I also like to think that, just like in the western world, this may all lead to a better standard of living.




_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 6:43:11 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		I often look at it this way--a lot of those kids in the factories in developing countries are the only sources of income the family has, so they must work, just like children worked in factories at the beginning the industrial age in the Western World.  And in many of those countries, the cost of living is very low compared to our cost of living, so a family could subsist on that amount.  (Granted subsisting is not much, but it is better than the alternative).

A few years back, 20/20 (I believe) did a story about the outsourcing of the garment industry.  They talked with a young woman who makes jeans for a popular company here in the US, makes a few dollars a day and can't afford to buy the jeans herself.  However, when 20/20 producers flew her to the US and took her shopping, she was amazed at the low cost of the jeans she had produced.  If those same jeans were made in the US, they would cost 2, 3 X what they now cost because workers here demand larger wages. 

We've done this to ourselves.  Demanded wages employers don't want to pay AND demanded low cost goods.  Manufacturers are willing to give us the low cost goods, but at the cost of high paying jobs right here in the US. 

And how many young people today would be willing to work in a factory--for any amount of money?



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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 6:54:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think, for myself, I am torn between actually knowing they are making more money than they would if that company wasnt there... and the fact that a US based company is going to other countries to make products in a way they never would be allowed to here.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 7:03:38 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		No clue how accurate the following is:

http://www.numbeo.com/food-prices/country_result.jsp?country=China

also

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=China

If that's correct $11 would be enough for food every day, but I can't see how it could possibly cover rent and utilities, and other expenses. Most child laborers in China would be homeless or living in slums. What they get paid does not even remotely resemble a fair wage. And some of them are true slave labor - sold by their families into slave labor where they are NOT paid at all - often girls because the families want to give them up to try for a son. Those who are not actual slave labor are generally far away from their families working in factories without anyone to take care of them or any kind of family support network to speak of. This is NOT like a 16 year old in the U.S. getting a summer job scooping ice cream. Or even a 16 year old in the U.S. dropping out of school to start working. This is something quite different. These children can be anywhere from 5 to 15 - and some are working for NOTHING. And it is very difficult to get accurate data about these things - China is very careful about what information gets out of the country. Just try taking any photos in a Chinese factory that employs children and see how far you get.

The fact remains that China is a country where individuals have very little freedom. And what information we get in the West about them is very heavily censored to reflect favorably on the country. Do people really think they built everything for the Beijing Olympics paying every laborer a fair wage even by local standards? If you don't do what the government says in China, you have a way of disappearing. The average person there has very little power relative to the government. The picture they present to the West is extremely skewed.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 1/16/2012 7:10:45 PM >

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 7:12:38 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		The Other Side of Apple

Since 2007, Apple has used a combination of style, design and innovative technology to create a sales frenzy over its iPad, iPhone, and other products. Whenever new Apple products go on sale, crowds of fans eager to be the first to get their hands on them line up overnight in cities like New York, London, Tokyo and Shanghai.
Behind their stylish image, however, Apple products have a side that many do not know about—pollution and poison. This side is hidden deep within the company‘s secretive supply chain, out of view from the public.
At the same time that Apple has been breaking sales records, workers making its products have been harmed by toxic chemicals. Many of the employees who have been sickened still suffer physically and emotionally. Their labor rights and basic dignity have been ignored and their communities have been burdened with polluted water and air.
The year 2010 witnessed a rash of suicides at the company Foxconn, a major Apple supplier. In all, twelve employees jumped from the tops of buildings, ten of them to their deaths. The grief and pain of these ten young lives cut short is still felt today. Given that Apple rarely discloses information regarding its supply chain, it is hard for the public to know Apple‘s views, other than what was released in a simple statement which merely commented that it was “saddened and upset by the recent suicides at Foxconn.”

On the web, however, an e-mail conversation unfolded between Apple CEO Steve Jobs and an Apple customer about the employee suicides—offering a glimpse of Apple‘s treatment of its suppliers and the value that it places on the lives of their employees.

The following conversation was posted on a blog named MacStories, a weblog with daily coverage of all things Apple. iOS and Mac news, reviews, rumors, tutorials. MacStories was launched in April 2009 and is written by the Apple obsessed, to the Apple obsessed.

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 7:14:25 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		4. YOU CAN MAKE APPLE CLEAN !

Unmasking the other side of Apple is by no means an attempt to undermine the brand; on the contrary, we want to see this brand with such technology, design and creative spirit to be able to change and improve.
We believe Apple‘s consumers will not be willing to learn that their products are made through polluting and poisoning processes.

For this reason, we call upon that Apple‘s consumers‘ be able to express their expectations and requirements for Apple. As Apple‘s most important stakeholders, a clear expression from Apple consumers may generate great incentives for Apple to improve and strengthen their environmental supply chain management.

Consumers have every right to express these wishes, since Apple has made a high-profile commitment to their supply chain and social responsibility. This means when a consumer buys an Apple product, they are also buying this commitment; a commitment that should not be violated.

For the environment and public health, for factory workers who have been poisoned, and to give our children safe and habitable land, let Apple hear your voice.

YOU can make Apple clean!

Write to Apple Now!

E-mail: [email protected]

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 8:06:42 PM   
SilverBoat


Posts: 257
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline 		I'll admit to a complex of as-yet unresolved thoughts about the whole mess of global commerce, inequities, cultures, realities, etc.

How about this for starters:

... Even within the 'developed' nations where sheer population pressure doesn't inherently drive hundred-millions into squalor, the costs-of-living vary widely. A medium-shabby 500sqft sublet in NYC might run $2000/mo, the same cash would get a nice house-n-yard here, or half a section to share-crop in rural areas, where subsistence housing can be $100/mo. Combine that with the cultural norms about personal-privacy vs extended-family, with the net result that here in the US alone, cost of living for the middle 80% varies by a factor of maybe 5:1 or more, and by 100:1 or so for the middle 98%.

... It shouldn't be a big surprise that global variance on that covers a range of 1000:1 (or more?)

... The problem of making that somewhat equitable, or at least aiming to, is beyond staggering, at 2-3 orders of magnitude. Consider that rural Africa would have to endure 40% annual inflation for 20 years to get somewhere near the US median.

... Maybe it never can be leveled off enough to provide reasonably equivalent human dignity and opportunity. I dunno. Maybe human nature, the planet's geography, etc put limits on leveling. And I'm certain there are groups who don't want that to happen. But that doesn't mean I've given up pondering the problem ...

SB

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 8:17:26 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Funny, This is what Stewart has on his show tonight.

Seems the cheap labor only saves approx 25%

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 10:00:38 PM   
SilverBoat


Posts: 257
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Funny, This is what Stewart has on his show tonight.

Seems the cheap labor only saves approx 25%


Yeah, when the whole enchilada gets added up; constructing factories, training workers, shipping materials, building products, importing goods, etc, and compared to domestic manufacturing costs, it's often more like 5-10% of the sales price.  

...

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/16/2012 11:25:51 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Add to that Coltan, a mineral mined in the Congo and funding the civil war there.

THAT is a freeking nightmare toooo
mind you, I am being hypocritical because I havent stopped eating chocolate, so I have no room to complain.

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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 1:04:48 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
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Status: offline 		FR

You will get your wish... the manufacturing workers are being replaced by improved and more sophisticated robot technology, even in China...

"Foxconn will move from 10,000 robots currently in use in its factories to one million or more in the next three years"
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/190358/20110801/foxconn-hsbc-apple-labor-jobs-economy.htm

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