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RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 12:45:36 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Are you sure you are 30?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 12:48:18 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
My point about Tibet, because I am very familiar with what goes on there, is that it is indicative of how forthright the Chinese are about information (i.e., not), and to what lengths they will go to protect what information comes out of the country (imprison those who do not comply). That is all I was using Tibet to demonstrate. As you are well aware, China currently controls Tibet. The military presence in Tibet is Chinese.

and the same can be said about the forthrightness of the US... thats why the US was so up-in-arms about WikiLeaks..

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 12:57:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		He signed on with the knowledge, and agreement, that there was information he would be privy to that was classified.

I dont believe the monks agreed to that.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 1:17:25 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
My point about Tibet, because I am very familiar with what goes on there, is that it is indicative of how forthright the Chinese are about information (i.e., not), and to what lengths they will go to protect what information comes out of the country (imprison those who do not comply). That is all I was using Tibet to demonstrate. As you are well aware, China currently controls Tibet. The military presence in Tibet is Chinese.

and the same can be said about the forthrightness of the US... thats why the US was so up-in-arms about WikiLeaks..


Yes, but the difference is, here we can actually talk about this stuff and not end up jailed. I would NOT even for one second compare the U.S. to China when it comes to freedom of speech. The First Amendment is still alive and well here....

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 1:24:08 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
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Status: offline 		Last time I checked, you didn't have Google removing stuff from searches so that they weren't banned from the country in the 'States, either.

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 1:38:38 PM   
Ishtarr


Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
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quote:

The report says Apple found 91 children working at 10 facilities. The previous year it found 11 at three workplaces.

It ordered most to pay the children's education costs but fired one contractor which was using 42 minors and had "chosen to overlook the issue", the company said. It also reported the vocational school that had arranged the employment to the authorities for falsifying student IDs and threatening retaliation against pupils who revealed their ages.

Apple said it had strengthened its checks on age because of concerns about the falsification of ages by such schools and labour agencies. It also audited 127 facilities last year, mostly for the first time, compared with 102 in 2009.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/feb/15/apple-report-reveals-child-labour



As far as I know Apple is the only of the companies that work with Foxconn that is actively trying to improve worker conditions and ban child labor.
Dell, Nokia, Panasonic, HP, Samsung, Sony and Lenovo also work with Foxconn, and IF any of them are trying to do anything to improve working conditions at Foxconn, there is at the very least no information to be found about it online.

In that light, I can only say that the article the OP posted is obviously very biased and has an agenda against Apple specifically, and not at all against child labor.
If it was a child labor issue and not an Apple issue, the other companies working with Foxconn would have been mentioned as well.
Instead, it just yet another slur of how Apple is evil, meanwhile implying that the other electronic companies -who are often much worst offenders- are somehow better.



< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 1/17/2012 1:40:46 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 1:44:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And yet you bypassed the report that was posted.. along with the actual costs and working conditions at each plant.. that had nothing to do with what company was having produced from each plant.

Perhaps you have too much of an Apple in your eye.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Ishtarr)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 2:01:13 PM   
Ishtarr


Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And yet you bypassed the report that was posted.. along with the actual costs and working conditions at each plant.. that had nothing to do with what company was having produced from each plant.

Perhaps you have too much of an Apple in your eye.


I didn't bypass anything, I was commenting that the original article you posted is clearly biased and a case of bad journalism (I wouldn't even call it journalism).
I didn't speak pro or con Apple, hell I didn't even comment on the topic of the thread -child labor. All I did is bring up the fact that the original article deliberately left out fact in an attempted to sketch a false view of things, making it useless to derive ANY kind of opinion on ANY subject from said article .

The fact that your conclusion of me bringing up facts is that "I have too much of an Apple in my eye" is interesting to say the least.
Apparently anybody not willing to ignore facts in favor for vilifying Apple is a "fanboy"... amazing how that works.

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 1/17/2012 2:03:58 PM >

_____________________________


Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt

Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 2:01:53 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		You missed my post earlier in the thread pointing out that Apple had been using sweatshop labour long before the current fuss over foxconn blew up?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Ishtarr)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 2:06:23 PM   
Ishtarr


Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

You missed my post earlier in the thread pointing out that Apple had been using sweatshop labour long before the current fuss over foxconn blew up?


I didn't miss anything, I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, nor commented on the subject.

I'm just not willing to start a debate on any topic based on false information, so I found it necessary to point out that the original article posted is useless as a base for any kind of opinion.

This being the forum it is, I expect to find a whole bunch of interesting and useful follow up articles in the rest of the thread, that can provide actual information, but that doesn't change the fact that the original article used is worth less than the bits used to convey it.

_____________________________


Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt

Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 2:12:36 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		You don't feel that there's a slight disparity between the image Apple has spent most of its existence cultivating and manufacturing its products under circumstances that are hazardous, demeaning and generally harmful to its workforce, then?
That's what people are taking issue with here, rather than just being a load of stroppy PC/Blackberry users who think Apple makes toys.
Apple as a whole is no more autocratic, control freakish, immoral or contemptuous of its consumer base than any other electronics company. The carefully cultivated image, on the other hand, is based on arguing otherwise.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Ishtarr)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 2:14:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And yet you bypassed the report that was posted.. along with the actual costs and working conditions at each plant.. that had nothing to do with what company was having produced from each plant.

Perhaps you have too much of an Apple in your eye.


I didn't bypass anything, I was commenting that the original article you posted is clearly biased and a case of bad journalism (I wouldn't even call it journalism).
I didn't speak pro or con Apple, hell I didn't even comment on the topic of the thread -child labor. All I did is bring up the fact that the original article deliberately left out fact in an attempted to sketch a false view of things, making it useless to derive ANY kind of opinion on ANY subject from said article .

The fact that your conclusion of me bringing up facts is that "I have too much of an Apple in my eye" is interesting to say the least.
Apparently anybody not willing to ignore facts in favor for vilifying Apple is a "fanboy"... amazing how that works.



I started out by asking questions.. or did that escape your notice?

I was not sure how I felt about this issue, or if in fact it was actually as bad as the article made it out to be. The more I dug, the worse it got.

But, dont let facts stand in your way.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Ishtarr)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 2:36:56 PM   
Ishtarr


Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I started out by asking questions.. or did that escape your notice?

I was not sure how I felt about this issue, or if in fact it was actually as bad as the article made it out to be. The more I dug, the worse it got.

But, dont let facts stand in your way.


I didn't escape my notice, but then again, I didn't comment on anything YOU said.
I commented on the content of the article.
Why are you taking it personally that I point out that an article you posted contains omissions that cause it to be biased?
I didn't attack you, I didn't attack the topic, I didn't attack your post... hell I didn't even reply directly to your post... so why is it that you feel the need to defend this biased article to the point of levying accusations against me when I've never even disagreed with you to begin with?
Why is this topic personal to you that somebody pointing out facts needs to be attacked?
I don't have a particular thing for Apple... what about you tazzy... got something against Apple, instead of simple being against shitty work conditions in the electronics industry?





< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 1/17/2012 2:38:41 PM >

_____________________________


Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt

Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 2:40:36 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Nope, I am against shitty work conditions. The article was about Apple. The issue isnt just about Apple. I would think that would be obvious to anyone who read the thread.

Guess not.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Ishtarr)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 2:46:55 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		To reiterate a point that's been missed: Apple was using sweatshop labour to manufacture components of the Apple ii (paying on a piecework basis, so it didn't have to worry about SS, minimum wage or workplace safety laws) in 1977. A fair chunk of the subcontractor (a lady called Hildy Licht)'s workforce were illegal immigrants from south east asia and Mexico.
1977. (Fucking Commodore wouldn't have tried that on back then.) They didn't give a shit about the welfare of manufacturing staff when they were subcontracting stuff domestically (at least not until it looked like the auditors might uncover this dirty little secret before the lucrative IPO), so I find it rather hard to believe they give any more of a hoot about their Chinese workforce now.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 1/17/2012 2:48:11 PM >

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Ishtarr)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 4:30:19 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

When you add it all up, the entire package is tough to beat – from nearly every angle.


I joined because I wanted money for college and to travel. I spent two years in Okinawa, two weeks in Guam, and wrung every penny out of my GI Bill benefits. It wasn't an issue at the time, but I am really glad to have VA Health Insurance now.

I also met my husband, learned how to scuba drive, and started learning about computers back when there were two floppy drives and no hard drives.

Also learned about personal responsibility and accountability - for example, no calling in sick when it requires a trip to Sick Hall.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 5:31:48 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		The thing is, the states love prison slave labor. In 1989, Oregon started a prison run clothing company, prison blues. In other words, the state opened a sweatshop. Private manufacturers started screaming that they couldn't compete with slave labor, but the state didn't care. Voters absolutely loved it, so much that in 1997, Oregon passed, by popular vote, a referendum requiring all inmates to be employed. Using prisoners as slave labor will never stop until stupid laws like that are off the books. And of course they are going to work undesirable jobs, they are undesirable people.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 5:54:14 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Thats the problem I have with prison labor. They should work. They should have to make some restitution. But it has turned into such a profitable market that people outside of prisons are losing their jobs.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: iPhones and child labor - 1/17/2012 5:56:05 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I joined because I wanted money for college and to travel. I spent two years in Okinawa, two weeks in Guam, and wrung every penny out of my GI Bill benefits. It wasn't an issue at the time, but I am really glad to have VA Health Insurance now.


Many joined for those reasons. Nothing wrong with it at all. I just get frustrated when people claim "thats all they make". Yeah, the pay is.. blah...especially for the jobs they do.... but the bennies are pretty damn decent.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 79
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