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RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 11:21:38 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I only steal things I wasn't going to use anyway.

Information is not a thing, Musicmystery. The language that your mommy taught you when you were a tiny toddling Musicmystery is not a thing. A thing is something that one can take hold off. Try to take hold of the word 'I'. Can someone steal the word 'I' from you? No. But you can teach the word 'I' to another tiny person. When you do so, you are sharing information. Do you get it yet? Or are you going to accuse the tiny person of stealing the word 'I' from you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
If you don't find it valuable, leave it be and turn to something you do find worthwhile.

If the guy who detonated the explosives in the two WTC towers does not want anyone to know that he did so, then he shouldn't tell it to another person, for then it would be a secret no more. Anyone who thinks that his information is valuable, should keep his mouth shut.

Music and movie companies have never been selling music and movies, for it is impossible to sell information. What they were selling instead was things: LPs, videotapes and such things. Those things can be stolen. Information can not be stolen.

You know very well that information has no value whatsoever, Musicmystery. Otherwise you would be trying to sell the word 'I' to all tiny persons.

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RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 11:23:27 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I have read that people that will download pirated material would never have paid for it in the first place.. So either way the artist isnt gonna get money for it.. Imo that is true..


I only steal things I wasn't going to use anyway.

Yeah.

If you don't find it valuable, leave it be and turn to something you do find worthwhile.

I already said that i do turn to something i find more worthwhile..

Hence, no need for anyone to pirate it.

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 11:25:48 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Information can not be stolen.


Seems that would make it all the more real and worthwhile.

Keep the memories. Cherish what you've learned. Freely share this with anyone, for free.

If you want a copy of the physical (or digital) book or recording or movie, you'll need to pay for it.

If you feel otherwise, contact your legislators and urge them to change the law. Until then, it's illegal.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 11:45:47 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I have read that people that will download pirated material would never have paid for it in the first place..

Quite. And often they would not even know that it existed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
There is lots of music i would never pay for..

I have never paid for any music. And the only one or two times that I bought an LP was because my father sent me shopping for one...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I really dont even listen to music at all and havent for years..

Me too. Infrequently I listen to a song on youtube when such a song is a news item. And during the past couple of years I have watched a fair number of talent shows, but more because of the show and the judges than for the music; but such shows get boring after a time; I haven't watched one for at least half a year now.

And about three years ago I got a copy of a lot of advertisements for music, about 150 gigabytes; it didn't cost me a cent, as it has no value whatsoever. I listened to a couple of dozen songs by some British singer, but it wasn't as good as I recalled from way back. So ever since them advertisements have been sitting on my hard disk twiddling their thumbs. I added some more tens of gigabytes to them at least one year ago - there is a yearly event in the USA that puts the music played there on their website - but I have got no idea what was played there, for I haven't listened yet to any of the music that I downloaded from that website.

I dunno. If some musician offered to pay me for listening to his music, perchance I might do so - or not. More likely not, I think: I have got other things to occupy me. I cannot waste my time on listening to music.

< Message edited by Rule -- 1/25/2012 11:48:04 AM >

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RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 11:48:37 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I cannot waste my time on listening to music.

So don't. Problem solved.

You've no need to download it illegally either. So don't. Problem solved.

I don't use tanning salons. But I wouldn't condone stealing their services either.



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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 11:56:04 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
contact your legislators and urge them to change the law. Until then, it's illegal.

Them law is unethical and wrong and evil. But I guess that if politicians voted in a law that said that suckling mommies must have their breasts amputated that you would be the first person to sharpen your breast amputating knife, not so?

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RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 12:05:15 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
I dunno. If some musician offered to pay me for listening to his music, perchance I might do so - or not. More likely not, I think: I have got other things to occupy me. I cannot waste my time on listening to music.

lol Interesting thought.. I doubt I would accept an offer to be paid to listen to music.. its just not part of my life or how i want to spend my time.. the few times i have watched a youtube music vid its cuz someone posted it here and its just a two minute bit of nostalgia.. which is all well and good but living in the past is not my thing.. I wonder who does listen to music anymore.. even when i am at the gym i would rather watch an informative tv show than listen to music..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 12:10:06 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I don't use tanning salons. But I wouldn't condone stealing their services either.

You still show an inability to distinguish between information, which has no value whatsoever, and things of value such as labor and physical objects.

Have you yet downloaded some information from the Internet and tried to buy a hot-dog with that information? According to you such information has value, so I would like you to prove that assertion. If it truly has value, you can buy that hot-dog.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 12:15:12 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
If you want a copy of the physical (or digital) book or recording or movie, you'll need to pay for it.

LOL No, i can go to the library and borrow it, or borrow from a friend, or i can go online and buy it used, which is exactly what i do for books i want. I bought Steve Jobs biography new only cuz it was only $17, much less than B&N would sell it for.. People will only pay for things they believe are actually worth the cost.. for me, I can buy used books for as little as 1 cent (shipping extra $2 to 4) which is much less than new and the author gets no pay for that at all, its already been paid for the first time it was bought and that is all they are entitled to.. That is all the writer will get, or the musician if i buy a used cd or the actors etc if i buy a used movie.. but i only buy books anyway and only books i intend to keep for reference..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 12:15:37 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
even when i am at the gym i would rather watch an informative tv show than listen to music..

Verily, that is my stance exactly.

In fact about five years ago I bought a month ticket for a gym, but the first time I went there they refused to allow me to enter unless I had sports clothes. So I bought sports clothes. The second time I went there they played LOUD music. I returned to the dressing room, put on my ordinary clothes again and left and never returned. I may still have that month worth of gym ticket somewhere, unused.

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 2:33:31 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
contact your legislators and urge them to change the law. Until then, it's illegal.

Them law is unethical and wrong and evil. But I guess that if politicians voted in a law that said that suckling mommies must have their breasts amputated that you would be the first person to sharpen your breast amputating knife, not so?




If false analogies are the best you can do, consider the weakness of your position.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 2:36:39 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I don't use tanning salons. But I wouldn't condone stealing their services either.

You still show an inability to distinguish between information, which has no value whatsoever, and things of value such as labor and physical objects.

Have you yet downloaded some information from the Internet and tried to buy a hot-dog with that information? According to you such information has value, so I would like you to prove that assertion. If it truly has value, you can buy that hot-dog.



Get Hot Dogs Coupon

Sure. I earn in the top 25% of U.S. income earners by selling that information.

Clearly, people feel it has value.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 2:38:42 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

i can go to the library and borrow it, or borrow from a friend, or i can go online and buy it used


All of which is perfectly fine; the goods have already been purchased, and are being used as the owner sees fit.

Now, if you start making copies and distributing them, that's illegal. Even in the library.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 2:39:50 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

they played LOUD music. I . . . left and never returned.


I do the same thing.

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RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 2:50:38 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Music and movie companies have never been selling music and movies, for it is impossible to sell information. What they were selling instead was things: LPs, videotapes and such things. Those things can be stolen. Information can not be stolen.

I disagree. The MP3 fiasco fifteen years back made it very clear that they're not so much selling artefacts as a physical representation of a lease on intellectual property.

_____________________________

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 3:57:49 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

i can go to the library and borrow it, or borrow from a friend, or i can go online and buy it used


All of which is perfectly fine; the goods have already been purchased, and are being used as the owner sees fit.

Now, if you start making copies and distributing them, that's illegal. Even in the library.

I can make a copy for my use and then resell the original to someone else.. and they can do the same thing and so on.. and so on..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 3:59:51 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Aren't you the clever one.

Enjoy.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 4:29:08 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Aren't you the clever one.

Enjoy.

so if i were to do it legally, you seem to still have a problem with it.. I am just glad that libraries existed before any of these laws did.. I go to the library a lot, and i have bought books after having read them at the library cuz i wanted my own copy.. but as i said, I have to feel they have enough value to me for me to purchase them (even after reading them)..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 6:44:24 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm against using copyrighted material as it was not intended for financial gain or at the loss of the copyright holder's financial rights.


where does it say that in the bill again?


Wikipedia's intent was noted--they flashed the content and then their message. I elected not to let their opinions dictate my day or my students' day.




omg I am gonna have to start teaching to offset the damage being done!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - 1/25/2012 7:34:09 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Aren't you the clever one.

Enjoy.

so if i were to do it legally, you seem to still have a problem with it..

It is impossible to discuss the color blue with someone who cannot see that color. Such a person will think that all the hundreds of millions of people who can see the color blue in fact are crazy and will ignore anything they say about that color as it is incomprehensible to him. And even were he to accept that such a color exists, it would still be incomprehensible to him.

For a man with no legs nor the ability to perceive legs, running a race makes no sense whatsoever. If I could teach a man without legs to run a race, I could solve most of the inter human conflicts. Yea, if I could only make him aware that he has no legs and that other people do, I could solve most of the inter human conflicts.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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