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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 2:57:47 AM   
SailingBum


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What you may think as extreme maybe be tame ot others. Its all a matter of perspective.

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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 3:35:30 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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A sub in the context of D/s is a person who submits to a person or people and defines themselves as a sub
A slave in the context of D/s is a person who submits to a person or people and defines themselves as a slave.

Sorry I can't be more detailed than that but my personal experience of both is that there is nothing inherently submissive or salvelike so I can't say there is a difference in definition.

As to 'extreme' I am assuming you mean by my own standards, there is nothing that jumps out at me really, there have been things completely out of my comfort zone but not that I would call extreme. 

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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 3:42:08 AM   
fragilepieces


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extreme submission anything that requires me to get off my ass and do something...like today I am enslaved to my job and must get off my ass and go there in the next few minutes.

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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 7:05:07 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

A sub in the context of D/s is a person who submits to a person or people and defines themselves as a sub
A slave in the context of D/s is a person who submits to a person or people and defines themselves as a slave.



I'll second that. Although, I will say that I don't believe that there is such a thing as consensual slavery.


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 9:23:49 AM   
Delilya


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

What you may think as extreme maybe be tame ot others. Its all a matter of perspective.

BadOne


Exactly. Extreme to me is going to be when I tie david between two trees. Feel free to use your imagination from there, I did. That may be everyday occurrence to others..


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 9:33:13 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Although, I will say that I don't believe that there is such a thing as consensual slavery.



I find that odd. You don't think a person can agree to submit totally to someone else? They have to be taken by force, against their will? If I misunderstood, care to explain?


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 9:44:49 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Although, I will say that I don't believe that there is such a thing as consensual slavery.



I find that odd. You don't think a person can agree to submit totally to someone else? They have to be taken by force, against their will? If I misunderstood, care to explain?

I didn't say someone can't agree to submit totally to someone else. If you choose to submit, you choose to submit.....but in my opinion, that doesn't make you a slave.

What I said is that I don't think that there's such a thing as consensual slavery. I believe that slavery by it's definition is non-consensual. I realize that's unpopular view, but it's what I believe.


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 9:55:05 AM   
DesFIP


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Thanks, I misunderstood.
I actually agree with you. What most people call a slave here is just someone who has fewer pre-negotiated hard limits. Which doesn't make them something different, just further along on the spectrum.

And the thing about 'fewer' is that it is only fewer in comparison to someone else. So one person's slave is someone else's sub and someone else's fwb. Which is why the only people who get to define a relationship are the people in it.


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 3:40:24 PM   
ResidentSadist


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Extreme submission? Does it count if I submitted to the Marquis De Sade when I was 13 years old. 

...well, I submitted to his philosophies when I first read his Letters From Prison

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1982744


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 3:56:13 PM   
dovie


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I'm sitting here naked with a nice, long and sharp Chris Zhou Forged Samurai Sword from the Zheng Wu Series across my naked lap. Now that's submission!

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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 4:26:30 PM   
dublinemma


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To me a sub is someone who will submit but retain's control over certain aspects of their life and has limits. A sub will say no if they feel strongly about something.

A slave is someone who has relatively no control over their life. A slave won't say no (within reason obviously) because this is the agreement they've entered into.

For me my most 'extreme' moment would have to be reaching that level of subspace where all you want to do is give up control and obey, it takes more effort to say no than yes. The feeling of calm and submission during this time is amazing.

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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 5:24:54 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Delilya

Exactly. Extreme to me is going to be when I tie david between two trees. Feel free to use your imagination from there, I did. That may be everyday occurrence to others..



It's only extreme if the trees are covered in poison ivy.


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/18/2012 5:32:01 PM   
BurntKitty


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Submission: The act of sending a manuscript to a publisher.
Slavery: Working for the State of Florida.

I can't answer for my sweetie, but the most extreme act I've ever been a part of was fireplay. It was freaking awesome watching a wall of flames start at my toes and race toward my face. The "arsonist" made sure I was propped up for the full effect. He did this twice. Looooved it. I went home feeling all warm & fuzzy. (OK, this was at a play party after another top walloped me with homemade paddles, floggers, canes a damned metal serving spoon & a sjambok.)

I r not a submittive, I r a massokissed. I took chocolate Tums to put out teh fire in mah swabe belly.

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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/19/2012 10:10:24 AM   
Ninebelowzero


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I was a sub/bottome to the ex & a slave to the divorce lawyers.

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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/19/2012 1:59:01 PM   
Delilya


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Delilya

Exactly. Extreme to me is going to be when I tie david between two trees. Feel free to use your imagination from there, I did. That may be everyday occurrence to others..



It's only extreme if the trees are covered in poison ivy.



My point exactly.


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/19/2012 6:04:33 PM   
slaverachel2Him


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okay dominance and submission certainly does fit into BDSM in fact it is between the "B" and the "M" along with discipline and sado. discipline requires dominance from someone to discipline and someone to submit to the discipline. In M/s, D/s sadomasochism need not exist.

i agree the sub/slave controversy has been beaten to death and will never be agreed upon. Even before the internet, each region had it's own rules of enslavement and Mastery. In one location if you were a REAL slave you drank a CUP of the Master/Mistresses first AM urine DAILY.

IN another place, anything that could please or reward a slave was avoided. slave's kinks or desires were to be deliberately circumvented and denied. Kind of like when someone rebels to "not be controlled" by doing something they don't want to do just because someone wanted them to do it. LOL Imagine the work the "M" had to do and the things they had to deny themselves just to make sure the slave wasn't happy or pleasured in any way. LOL cut off nose to spite face and face could care less.

i think definitions and behaviors change with the times and necessity. Most households need two wage earners. It is not economically feasible to keep the slave in a barn all night and know they will be in shape to go to work at the office the next day, nor is the Master going to keep the slave up all night doing the dishes 10 times for punishment when they have to drive to work, AND the concept of consent vs abuse. We know how to define abuse vs S/M and D/s. We are more aware of posers trying to use the M/s to find a victim to immaturity and abuse.

We also are in a society that likes to get to the "N'th degree of things which before, people just did it under cover the way their area did it (which is what they knew with no internet).

The more people argue over it, the more imbedded everyone will get in their own interp and so arguing mostly reinforces the "opposition". We CAN define what it means in OUR relationships, though most people are rarely consistent in anything they believe in or do. Personally i have such a radical idea of enslavement, that in pure terms we wouldn't even be posting here.

Did you know Wonder Woman was written ABOUT the author's wife who was his slave? They were also poly and had a second slave. The Wonder Woman character was the alpha slave. Someone writing about it pointed out she wore her lariette of truth more than anyone else! Hmmm It has an interesting history.

http://smokinglizard.com/2011/04/12/wonder-woman-bondage-slut-pt-1/

Most extreme? How about hard core slave training, NO internet LOL because the trainers before cutting it off posted and emailed all your friends and social sites messages and pics that make it impossible for your friends to ever want to hear from you again and you to want to contact them again. You own nothing, and not allowed to speak. Once trained you are taken to an auction and sold to a person from a country in which slavery is nonconsensual? So no way out forever? No matter what. Of course you are forever naked, must be the housekeeper for their wives and serve all the Master's sexual and sadistic desires as well as anyone else he wants to impress or reward, sometimes the entire village. The entire village is allowed to punish you too.THERE! Extreme.





< Message edited by slaverachel2Him -- 1/19/2012 6:15:24 PM >


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/19/2012 6:35:31 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverachel2Him

okay dominance and submission certainly does fit into BDSM in fact it is between the "B" and the "M" along with discipline and sado. discipline requires dominance from someone to discipline and someone to submit to the discipline. In M/s, D/s sadomasochism need not exist.
Actually, the original acronym is Bondage, discipline Sad-Masochism. Putting D/s in the middle is an internet bastardization of the original acronym.


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/19/2012 11:28:49 PM   
slaverachel2Him


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Discipline REQUIRES a dominant which is why it was added and and a submissive without a dominant or a submissive, the discipline would never happen. IT REQUIRES both side to exist. It is an encompassing word. Masochism is not discipline but pleasure for the masochist. Bottoming Many people (another reason it was added) considered it domination submission only. It became common to recognize both since many people into BDSM independently read it as Bondage, dominance, submission, masochism since without the discipline or sadism. Since bondage, submission, masochism (which it isn't for a real masochist) all fit under the act of discipline it was seen as redundant. Many people do M/s without the S/M and do not consider themselves as BDSM because they "only" have part of the acronym, others do because they HAVE as part of the acronym. Can't tell either one to do it differently because they don't HAVE to do it any differently.
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverachel2Him

okay dominance and submission certainly does fit into BDSM in fact it is between the "B" and the "M" along with discipline and sado. discipline requires dominance from someone to discipline and someone to submit to the discipline. In M/s, D/s sadomasochism need not exist.
Actually, the original acronym is Bondage, discipline Sad-Masochism. Putting D/s in the middle is an internet bastardization of the original acronym.




< Message edited by slaverachel2Him -- 1/19/2012 11:37:01 PM >


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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/20/2012 6:26:15 AM   
sirjake1379


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I hate labels because they tend to get tossed around on the assumption that everyone holds the same definition. In My journal, I posted some 'definitions' from My point of view, if only to make it easier to chat / correspond with people. What follows is drawn from that posting - and please note that I am NOT suggesting that everyone should adopt My definitions.

A ‘bottom’ – in My view – is a more-or-less vanilla person who takes pleasure from engaging in the receiving end of BDSM activities. There needs be little or no emotional attachment to whoever is ‘topping’ or conducting the activity, and in fact in many cases anyone will do. The psychological element of serving another is not part of the bottom’s motivation. The bottom may or may not be a switch – meaning that they alternate between the ‘top’ and ‘bottom’ roles as their mood or the situation dictates, and they may or may not also be masochistic.

Again – in my view - I see different ‘levels’ of submissive. Without any prejudice intended, I will label them as ‘level 1’ and ‘level 2’.

Both level 1 (L1) and level 2 (L2) subs have an inherent psychological need to submit to another person. For the L1, this need to submit may be satisfied in a truncated fashion – brief, specific time periods with a detailed and lengthy set of limits, rules and caveats to which they expect the Dominant to adhere. For the L2, the need to submit is stronger and the time periods tend to be longer with a shorter list of limits, rules and caveats. The L2’s submission may spill over into time periods which are primarily ‘vanilla’ in nature, with certain aspects of their behaviour still controlled by (and for) their Dominant. Generally speaking, there is a partnership or level of ongoing commitment between the submissive and their Dominant. That commitment may or may not include a collar.

The slave – again, in My view – has the need to submit in a fashion beyond that of the L2 submissive. The slave’s submission is closer to, if not completely, limitless. Their offer or gift to their Dominant is complete, so they are therefore subject only to the Dominant’s personal limits. To Me, the key to this relationship is the extremely close nature of the partners' needs, and the slave’s overwhelming desire to serve / satisfy the desires/needs of the Dominant. Some see the slave as a live-in arrangement with a complete focus on serving the Dominant partner, but I do not see that as a determining factor. To Me, it is the need to serve and the absence of limits that are the hallmarks of the slave.

Let Me repeat what I said at the outset – My purpose in writing this is to simply put down in words what these particular terms mean to Me, and even so I do not see hard and fast boundaries between these definitions. I do this for no other reason than to provide a context for those who choose to communicate with Me without misunderstandings.

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RE: ..Inquiring minds want to know.. - 1/20/2012 7:52:22 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

What you may think as extreme maybe be tame ot others. Its all a matter of perspective.

BadOne


Indeedy.

I've had an enjoyable little fantasy for some time. It involves a train ride. As I'm getting off, a sexy, haughty woman I don't know tells me to carry her bags for her.

That's pretty much it. Unbelievably mild by most people's standards - but, for a femdom, pretty much impossible. I don't think any would have the nerve and, in reality, I wouldn't blame them.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 1/20/2012 8:08:06 AM >


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