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ORIGINAL: Epytropos

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Let me see if I understand this correctly?
If a country would like to have nuclear power it must buy that technology from someone who does have it because if a country tries to develop it by themselves they are terrorist and can be stoped by any means necessary?
Is that about it?

Did I say any of that? Because I read my posts pretty carefully and I can't find the word "terrorist" or "buy" or for that matter "any means necessary" anywhere. I don't want to say for certain I read it correctly, but since I wrote it I'd like to think that memory served me well in my rereading.

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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Really, what facts have you backed up here except to cite an interview that you didn't even post a link to?

Would you like someone to hold your hand for you? If you are not capable of going to google and looking up the interview then why are you even in this discussion?

All you cited was an interview he posted in 2006. I do not know whether it is online or not. You have even failed to detail what particular content it raises which refutes my stance.

Meanwhile you haven't even bothered to properly address a single point I raised and backed up with links. Arguing with you is like a sad little psychological game of attack.

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I have posted to a goodly number of articles and clips which you dismissed with contempt so any facts others cite which don't agree with your world-view are entirely wasted on you.

You said you failed

Your response makes no sense except to suggest these ridiculous debates with you are about winning rather than trying to understand another perspective.

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You have cited opinion not fact. You may value opinion but I value facts.

Oh no you certainly fucking don't. If you valued facts you would have addressed even one or two of the numerous links I provided which contradict your own "opinions".

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Others are entitled to come to conclusions based on the evidence they have, even if the conclusions do not suit you.

The conclusions you or anyone else take from opinion are subject to logical attack, dont you think?

Obviously they are subject to criticism but why should it be "attack"? Secondly you have not refuted a single one of my points to date with anything resembling a "logical attack".

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I think the problem comes down to your ego and intolerence of anyone else's view but your own.

No it is my intolerance of willful ignorance supported driven by blind faith in opinion and not my ego that is the problem.

Your ego certainly is the problem dear boy. Wilful ignorance? Now that really is funny. You refuse to accept anything that does not suit your "opinion". You then transmogify your "opinion" into fact, whilst the facts others cite are transformed into "opinions" in your bizarre world. Thus nothing anybody says will ever have any impact on yourself no matter how factually based. For example I cited close to ten examples of Ahmadinejad using very threatening language toward Israel and you failed to address every single one.

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Want evidence of my like "opinion"? Pretty much every post you put up where you take a stance of "oh thats just YOUR opinion".

When the facts contradict to your opinion, where does that leave your opinion?

You keep asserting you have facts, yet you won't even show them. Thus the question should be "where does that leave YOUR opinions which you keep saying are based on facts?"

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Show some decency, your views are not inherently better than others.

When the facts suport my opinion then it is inherently better than others.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
On the contrary you duck under anything you can to change the focus of my statements to fit your never ending army of strawmen.

This is a nonsense. It is you who is strawmanning by pretending I was arguing to make a different point (e.g. who the NK represent) when the source of contention was extremely clear all along. If I do as you say then it should be very easy to cite several charges of strawmanning. Please do so and we can address them one by one.

you are!

How many more times do I need to cite them?

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conflating terms, inappropriate word substitution, obfuscating points, unfounded opinions as fact, hyperbole, pejoratives, I mean its every known intellectual dishonest trick in the book!

CLEARLY! LOL

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you gotta be kidding, address them one at a time, you cant even stay on point for the first one much less add more to the mix.

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First you correctly said "faith" then you move the goal posts to conflate it with "community".

The Jewish faith and Jewish community are largely interchangeable in this case because people being part of the "Orthodox Jewish community" implies they are faithful just as one would say the same about a member of another religious community. Besides which you made out the Neturei Karta were representative of Jews generally which is wrong. End of.

Again you move those goal posts out of focus.  I suppose thats my fault. LOL

Jewish faith refers to "judaism" not zionism.   I hope that clears it up.

Here is another example of your strawmanning by pretending the argument is something else. The Jewish faith is of course Judasim. I never said otherwise. The issue was whether the Neturei Karta, who are extreme anti-Zionists, were representative of Judaism as you repeatedly made them out to be. They clearly are not. End of.

I am the one who made the fucking argument in the first place!  How the hell can I pretend that my argument is something else LOL

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How do you know they are extreme?  Are they obfuscating their religion in some way that you object to? 

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Do you think that jews are representative of the muslim or christian religions then, if not jew?

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I am sure the faithful are traitors to the zionist state community.

Ah so now you R0 are an expert on Jewish theology by stating that the Neturei Karta are true faithful Jews whilst the vast majority of the rest of the Jews out there who accept Zionism are not? You really are a funny chap aren't you? The NK have their own take on what it means to be Jewish, which even a majority of other orthodox Jews reject. That is much of the reason why they are at the periphery of Judaism and a tiny minority, even though they are great at publicising themselves and have existed since 1938.

apparently I am considerably more an expert than you are.  The NK follow the dictates of their religion.  Its the same way with any religion, some follow the word others stray and yet they all accept the same label.  The NK just happens to be correct.  Feel free to show where their take is religiously incorrect. 

There are a huge number of Jewish scholars, perhaps more so than other faiths. Do you expect me to believe 99% of them are wrong and the NK, a tiny religious sect are correct? It is extremely amusing that you, who has a very overt hatred of Jews and has denied the Holocaust repeatedly on this forum, is now dictating what is true Judasim and what isn't.

Rabbis deny the holocaust, I just repeated what they said!  The question is what kind of fucked up system are you using to connect a strictly academic position to hatred?   People who are intellectually dishonest, when they cant get on top of an argument always resort to hyperbole and emotionalism in their last breath before their titanic turd sinks.

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You are not an expert on Judaism or you would not have cited a tiny minority the Neturei Karta as representative of Judaism (broad mainstream Jewish and Orthodox opinion) in your previous posts, unless you are trying to lie as well. Which is it: are you an expert who is a liar or someone lacking even the slightest modicum of knowledge.

Since when does "broad" and "mainstream" have "ANYTHING" to do with correctness unless you are trying to win a popularity contest where the least informed wins?

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Really?  How do you know what I am an expert in and how do you know that your perception of who is an expert would have cited any differently?

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Oh and now I am a liar with no knowledge?  All I have seen here is your off focus opinions from someone who obviously never even cracked the cover of the torah or talmud.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx
It is really pretty simple. You said he said this, I said he refuted your allegations on 60 minutes.

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If you would like to discuss this go find the 60 minutes interview and watch it and then we can discuss it. How difficult could it be for you to type into google his name, mike wallace, 60 minutes and the year 2006 when the interview was conducted.

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If you cannot or will not educate yourself why should I?

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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Once again you haven't cited any examples of strawmanning to date. I asked you to do so and you have failed.

sure I have and I am not going through your mountain of sophism to itemize it point by point.  been there done that on other occasions and its complete waste of fucking time.

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You objected to the contrasting use of "Jewish faith" and "orthodox community".

see its unending shape shifting.  that was not the argument, its what you changed the argument to be.  (now quote some of my shorthand and pretend it was the original point.)

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What a joke, you are the one who repeatedly misrepresents the opinions of others, and repeatedly ignore answers before firing the points at them again. Its the 9/11 threads strategy you pulled in the past.

I have no reason to follow your strawmen that do not address my original matters directly.  either in 911 or on this.  when you learn how to stay on focus with valid points things will be different.

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You didn't make an argument other than to pretend that the Neturei Karta were representative of more mainstream Jewish opinion. My response was that they were not.

again your failure to stay in focus pretending that my point was not stated perfectly clear.  you just impasse it all adding your own spin and puke your spin back up as fact thinking no one will notice.

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  As I already said, they are extreme because they advocate opinions that are beyond the pale for th evast vast majority of Jewish opinion not only with respect to anti-Semitic conspiracy theory which I know you advocate as well but also in terms of their religious extremism. They are ultra-Orthodox and as such demand the strict separation of the sexes.

that does not make them "extreme".  your whole foundational logic falls apart very simply if popular opinion says 2+2=5 and you label those who would say it = 4 extremists.  your usual hyperbole. 

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That shows how much you know about the Neturei Karta brains. The NK do not deny that the Holocaust happened. They just blame the Zionists for it.

See you have a comprehension disorder.  I never said the Neturei Karta said that.

try to keep up.

Furthermore a few months back when talking about the Protocols on the forum you referred to Jews with contempt when you were talking with Termy. You advocate all sorts of Zionist world control conspiracies and deny the Holocaust. You clearly hate Jews but pretend its just an "academic" issue lol. Thats pretty funny.

you may be confusing my sarcastic bite with contempt.   its not my fault they had olympic swimming pools in the alleged death camps.  It is sort of fascinating how the russian propaganda machine fucked people up over it and the way other gubafias jumped at it when they saw the profits to be made from it though. I have equal opportunity sarcasm.  read my footer that should help.

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You claim a tiny little sub-set of the Jewish faith represents the true Jewish faith whilst the vast majority of Jews are wrong. The majority can of course be wrong but the point here is that a small minority is more likely to be wrong in certain key respects when going so diametrically against the grain because broad Jewish religious understanding differs. 

Zionism is not a religion unless of course they have adopted statism as a religion like we and the yUK as done.

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Oh and now I am a liar with no knowledge?  All I have seen here is your off focus opinions from someone who obviously never even cracked the cover of the torah or talmud.

You stated you had expertise ""I am considerably more an expert than you are" and now you state you have none. Who is the liar brains? You can't even keep your story straight!

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You done with the "poopie pants" (or whatever it was) account now?!

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Andora doesn't.The netherlands don't,lichtensten doesn't,monaco doesn't...there are others

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That shows how much you know about the Neturei Karta brains. The NK do not deny that the Holocaust happened. They just blame the Zionists for it.

See you have a comprehension disorder. I never said the Neturei Karta said that.

try to keep up.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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Once again you haven't cited any examples of strawmanning to date. I asked you to do so and you have failed.

sure I have and I am not going through your mountain of sophism to itemize it point by point.  been there done that on other occasions and its complete waste of fucking time.

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You objected to the contrasting use of "Jewish faith" and "orthodox community".

see its unending shape shifting.  that was not the argument, its what you changed the argument to be.  (now quote some of my shorthand and pretend it was the original point.)

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First you correctly said "faith" then you move the goal posts to conflate it with "community".

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What a joke, you are the one who repeatedly misrepresents the opinions of others, and repeatedly ignore answers before firing the points at them again. Its the 9/11 threads strategy you pulled in the past.

I have no reason to follow your strawmen that do not address my original matters directly.  either in 911 or on this.  when you learn how to stay on focus with valid points things will be different.

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You didn't make an argument other than to pretend that the Neturei Karta were representative of more mainstream Jewish opinion. My response was that they were not.

again your failure to stay in focus pretending that my point was not stated perfectly clear.  you just impasse it all adding your own spin and puke your spin back up as fact thinking no one will notice.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Seems Orthodox Rabbis want Isreal off the map too!

Do you think they supported Hitler too?

[edited out four images of the Neturei Karta at a pro-Palestinian protest march]

I do feel the pain.

Nah not really LOL

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  As I already said, they are extreme because they advocate opinions that are beyond the pale for th evast vast majority of Jewish opinion not only with respect to anti-Semitic conspiracy theory which I know you advocate as well but also in terms of their religious extremism. They are ultra-Orthodox and as such demand the strict separation of the sexes.

that does not make them "extreme".  your whole foundational logic falls apart very simply if popular opinion says 2+2=5 and you label those who would say it = 4 extremists.  your usual hyperbole. 

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Furthermore a few months back when talking about the Protocols on the forum you referred to Jews with contempt when you were talking with Termy. You advocate all sorts of Zionist world control conspiracies and deny the Holocaust. You clearly hate Jews but pretend its just an "academic" issue lol. Thats pretty funny.

you may be confusing my sarcastic bite with contempt.   its not my fault they had olympic swimming pools in the alleged death camps.  It is sort of fascinating how the russian propaganda machine fucked people up over it and the way other gubafias jumped at it when they saw the profits to be made from it though. I have equal opportunity sarcasm.  read my footer that should help.

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You claim a tiny little sub-set of the Jewish faith represents the true Jewish faith whilst the vast majority of Jews are wrong. The majority can of course be wrong but the point here is that a small minority is more likely to be wrong in certain key respects when going so diametrically against the grain because broad Jewish religious understanding differs. 

Zionism is not a religion unless of course they have adopted statism as a religion like we and the yUK as done.

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Oh and now I am a liar with no knowledge?  All I have seen here is your off focus opinions from someone who obviously never even cracked the cover of the torah or talmud.

You stated you had expertise ""I am considerably more an expert than you are" and now you state you have none. Who is the liar brains? You can't even keep your story straight!

see you cant even understand that comment was directed at your lack of knowledge.  how do you expect to have any kind of progressive rational discussion when simple shit like that is beyond your ability to comprehend in context LOL

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Anax,

Haven't you learned yet?

Putting some people on hide just makes the boards a much more enjoyable experience.

As far as I am concerned, you have been arguing with ghosts, and I'd bet many other posters are seeing the same supernatural experience.

Firm

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
yeh that way you can be blind oblivious and smilin all the while your ass is being sandpaper roto-rooted!

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ORIGINAL: Edwynn

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Andora doesn't.The netherlands don't,lichtensten doesn't,monaco doesn't...there are others

Yes! And San Remo, too!

Screw those big countries, like Malta.


(this as feeble attempt to make both thompsonx and Anaxagoras laugh, while acknowledging unlikely outcome ... )

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yeh that way you can be blind oblivious and smilin all the while your ass is being sandpaper roto-rooted!

Be careful Firm, I think R0 is developing some unpleasant feelings toward you...

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ORIGINAL: PeePantsIn2012

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You done with the "poopie pants" (or whatever it was) account now?!

I'd ask you for your vote, but after that remark, it's clear you're still hoping for a Cain/Colbert comeback.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yeh that way you can be blind oblivious and smilin all the while your ass is being sandpaper roto-rooted!

Be careful Firm, I think R0 is developing some unpleasant feelings toward you...

What does the shark swimming in the ocean care about the mutterings of the tuna that swims by? 

Firm

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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In Post 179 you stated: "Rabbis deny the holocaust, I just repeated what they said!" - in relation to the NK as the thread below proves:

you certainly do have difficulty keeping up dont you?

I did not say "NK Rabbis" made that particular statement, I said "Rabbis period".  your fuck up.  AGAIN!

Hope that helps you untwist your panties.  LOL

NK Rabbis are not the only Rabbis in the world you know.

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If my responses are so repleat with strawmanning and other tactics it should be very easy to list a couple. The fact that you repeatedly refuse merely proves you are the liar so many on here know you are.

you also need to distinguish what you wish things to mean and what they really mean.

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Ifr there is any shape-shifting it is yours. Now you are pretending you didn't say what you said.

thats the problem, what I said in YOUR mind and what I really said always are 2 different things.  try and keep up.

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First you correctly said "faith" then you move the goal posts to conflate it with "community".

- there you go, actual proof of your strawmanning.

Now I damn near spit my coffee all over the keyboard with that one laughing!  when all else fails blame your malfeasance on the other person.  for shit sake at least make it a challenge!

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That is so very comical. I see you are using the tactic of accusing others of what you are doing yourself.

Here you accuse me of not following arguments but where you misrepresent what you stated previously I have sourced the old quotes in each case so you won't get away with it.

and again as I pointed out above in bold.

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If anyone here is "spinning" something it is yourself with vague accusations you can't even back up.

Got any more entertaining "opinions"?

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It does make them extreme whether you like it or not. If a group that is part of the Jewish faith but advocates religious values that are far more intolerent than even most other elements of the orthodox community then that makes them extreme. The Neturei Karta are part of the Ultra-Orthodox element, which is a sub-part of the more moderate Orthodox faithful. They demand segregated buses even in New York and Jerusalem, place signs up telling people to dress modestly in their areas and are known to attack those who do not. It was a member fo the Ultra-Orthodox (not Neturei Karta but a group similarly extreme and anti-Zionist) who spat on an eight year old girl in Israel last month.

No it does not make them extreme, it proves they are true to the religion, nothing more.  Extreme is a zionist opinion about any religion.

you think intolerance makes them extreme, lets start talking about Doms out here next. LMAO

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Sarcastic bite? Bwa ha ha! Whilst pretending you didn't refer to the Jews with extreme contempt lol you still take the opportunity to deny the Holocaust yet again.

Well unless you want to claim that Hitler made an olah offering to G-D it was a catastrophe.  Rabbis words. Nope google it LOL

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Here you are yet again strawmanning. I repeatedly stated in the thread that I was not talking about Zionism as a religion, and it cannot be found in the quote you are replying to either. You don't have a single honesty bone do you? I was talking about the Neturei Karta being extremist with respect to their intense religious values and belief in conspiracism.

I am not talking about it as a religion either however you raise it to that level in your responses.  try and keep up

Hats off to any religion that retains their substantive values.

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More obfuscation by pretend to be saying what you didn't say. You said you were an expert to which I replied that, if it was true, you were either an expert-but-a-liar or someone lacking any knowledge because you cited the Neturei Karta as representative of Judaism generally. You then passed the question back to me with "Oh and now I am a liar with no knowledge?" so I had to explain to you yet again what I meant. Now you're pretending your simple words meant otherwise, and using it to justify an insult. How stupid you are.

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They are not my "allegations".

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I didn't wish to discuss the 60 minutes interview particularly because I have seen several of his bullshit interviews already.


You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.

You are the one who brought it up remember?


Yup I keep asking you to watch the vidio so we can discuss it and you keep saying that something you have never seen is not true.

You said you wanted to discuss it in your last reply. The clip will no doubt take some time to view even if its online in its entirety so again if you wish to discuss it bring up the relevant points.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Anax,

Haven't you learned yet?

Putting some people on hide just makes the boards a much more enjoyable experience.

It also gives pseudo intellectuals the ability to avoid discussions in which they get their ass spanked purple.



Firm