RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 12:51:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Anax,

Haven't you learned yet?

Putting some people on hide just makes the boards a much more enjoyable experience.

It also gives pseudo intellectuals the ability to avoid discussions in which they get their ass spanked purple.



Firm



As opposed to a TWUE intellectual who doesnt realize that if someone has you on hide, he can't see your attempt at a snark.[:D]



thompsonx -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 12:57:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Anax,

Haven't you learned yet?

Putting some people on hide just makes the boards a much more enjoyable experience.

It also gives pseudo intellectuals the ability to avoid discussions in which they get their ass spanked purple.



Firm



As opposed to a TWUE intellectual who doesnt realize that if someone has you on hide, he can't see your attempt at a snark.[:D]



A true intellectual knows how to get pseudo intellectuals to repost his snark so those who have the true intellectual on hide can see his clever snark.
Hijack over now we return to our regularly scheduled non discussion.



Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 1:30:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Anax,

Haven't you learned yet?

Putting some people on hide just makes the boards a much more enjoyable experience.

It also gives pseudo intellectuals the ability to avoid discussions in which they get their ass spanked purple.



Firm


Think you're a non-pseudo intellectual Tommo?



Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 1:34:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
yeh that way you can be blind oblivious and smilin all the while your ass is being sandpaper roto-rooted!


Be careful Firm, I think R0 is developing some unpleasant feelings toward you... [:D]

What does the shark swimming in the ocean care about the mutterings of the tuna that swims by?  [;)][8D]

Firm

Tuna? I would have suggested something more along the lines of a mollusc, and thats being charitable to said individual if not the mollusc! [:D]



thompsonx -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 1:36:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Anax,

Haven't you learned yet?

Putting some people on hide just makes the boards a much more enjoyable experience.

It also gives pseudo intellectuals the ability to avoid discussions in which they get their ass spanked purple.



Firm


Think your a non-pseudo intellectual bub?


Have you watched the 60 minutes interview we were discussing yet?




Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 1:57:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
You are alleging that these things to be true.

I am not the source of the allegations back in 2005 so I did not make them. They are well known and others on here pointed to them as well. I merely referred to an article that in turn refers to the allegations. It was in response to someone else who denied said allegations.

quote:

I didn't wish to discuss the 60 minutes interview particularly because I have seen several of his bullshit interviews already.

You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.

Ahh I see you are taking the gloves off now lol. This comment demonstrates the rank stupidity of your argument.

Firstly you assume that I am unwilling to discuss the interview when I repeatedly stated that I would discuss it with you if you so wished.

Secondly, you state this interview will expose the "bullshit" I posted. How so? Will he reveal proven facts? Unlikely in an interview unless he presents authenticated transcripts for analysis. Thus you are damning others for sourcing evidentary material that you call "bullshit", and relegate their justified views to mere "opinions", whilst accepting without question the word of a politician who is effectively a dictator after suppressing protests and who has treated the people he supposedly represents in a brutal fashion, as "facts".

Your posturing is nothing but a joke, where you accept the word of people you want to believe. Thus it explains why you try desperately to undermine the opinions of others.

quote:


You are the one who brought it up remember?

Yup I keep asking you to watch the vidio so we can discuss it and you keep saying that something you have never seen is not true.

I never said the interview was untrue because I probably haven't seen it. I said that I have seen plenty of his interviews and they are without exception bullshit. It is the shit spouted by a masterful politician who can wezel his way out of almost anything. Thus there is reason to be skeptical of anything he says.

You wanted to discuss the video. That is what you said. Fine and dandy. I said I would discuss it with you. A generous thing to do. No doubt the video covers a lot of topics so I have repeatedly suggested you cite what points he makes that you wish to discuss. You have refused to do so, and instead continue to cast derision on a simple request.

Frankly, if the video is online I'm not willing to watch it in its entirety. I will watch it if you can proffer a clip which covers the relevant section to which I can respond. Why? Because you don't discuss these issues with any seriousness or sincerity whatsoever so I am unwilling to expend significantly more time than is necessary.

quote:

quote:


You said you wanted to discuss it in your last reply. The clip will no doubt take some time to view even if its online in its entirety so again if you wish to discuss it bring up the relevant points.


Once again I ask you how can we discuss this without you having watched the vidio?

LOL are you actually a little bit simple? I already said you can refer to points made in the video. You can cite passages, perhaps the relevant points in the clip(s) and/or quote them if there is a transcript online (there quite possibly is with a google search). Then we can discuss the points raised which you think refute the sources I proffered.


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Think your a non-pseudo intellectual?

Have you watched the 60 minutes interview we were discussing yet?

Yet another failure to answer a simple question, and you think you are capable of a discussion? [:D]



Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 2:08:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:


In Post 179 you stated: "Rabbis deny the holocaust, I just repeated what they said!" - in relation to the NK as the thread below proves:



you certainly do have difficulty keeping up dont you?

I did not say "NK Rabbis" made that particular statement, I said "Rabbis period".  your fuck up.  AGAIN!

Hope that helps you untwist your panties. LOL

Yet another fucking lie of yours. You most certainly did say NK rabbi's because they were the topic of conversation as I have already proven:

I am reposting the quote which you ignored. It proves you were taling in relation to the NK which I highlighted: Post 179
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
apparently I am considerably more an expert than you are. The NK follow the dictates of their religion. Its the same way with any religion, some follow the word others stray and yet they all accept the same label. The NK just happens to be correct. Feel free to show where their take is religiously incorrect.

There are a huge number of Jewish scholars, perhaps more so than other faiths. Do you expect me to believe 99% of them are wrong and the NK, a tiny religious sect are correct? It is extremely amusing that you, who has a very overt hatred of Jews and has denied the Holocaust repeatedly on this forum, is now dictating what is true Judasim and what isn't.

Rabbis deny the holocaust, I just repeated what they said! The question is what kind of fucked up system are you using to connect a strictly academic position to hatred? People who are intellectually dishonest, when they cant get on top of an argument always resort to hyperbole and emotionalism in their last breath before their titanic turd sinks.



thompsonx -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 2:13:48 PM)

quote:


quote:

I didn't wish to discuss the 60 minutes interview particularly because I have seen several of his bullshit interviews already.

You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.



Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 2:21:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:


quote:
I didn't wish to discuss the 60 minutes interview particularly because I have seen several of his bullshit interviews already.

You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.


Now you are just repeating yourself. I have explained at length why I'm not interested in the interview because I have heard his obfuscations in quite a number of other interviews.

Nonetheless I said I would be happy to discuss it with you if you wish to cite the relevant points which disprove the contentions in the material I provided. You are the one contesting said points so it is up to you to cite the relevant material.

Your failure to do such a simple thing which others (including myself) do all the time on here suggests you are just fleeing the scene.



Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 2:39:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
NK Rabbis are not the only Rabbis in the world you know.

No, this is more of your dishonest strawmanning.

I was saying that the NK are not representative of the Jewish faith generally. It was you who sourced images of the NK and pretended they were just general orthodox rabbi's.

quote:


quote:

If my responses are so repleat with strawmanning and other tactics it should be very easy to list a couple. The fact that you repeatedly refuse merely proves you are the liar so many on here know you are.

you also need to distinguish what you wish things to mean and what they really mean.


Ah so I asked you to supply a few examples and you supply further obfuscation whilst not providing any. True to form for you.

quote:


quote:

Ifr there is any shape-shifting it is yours. Now you are pretending you didn't say what you said.


thats the problem, what I said in YOUR mind and what I really said always are 2 different things. try and keep up.

Wrong again. You said I was changing the argument, when you stated in post 188 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4015125 - "see its unending shape shifting. that was not the argument, its what you changed the argument to be."

Then you accuse me of changing arguments and tell me to try to keep up! How comical. [:D]

quote:


quote:

First you correctly said "faith" then you move the goal posts to conflate it with "community".

- there you go, actual proof of your strawmanning.


Now I damn near spit my coffee all over the keyboard with that one laughing! when all else fails blame your malfeasance on the other person. for shit sake at least make it a challenge!

Once again you are strawmanning by stripping the post of its context - here is the argument in its context, where you simply pretend that I was saying something other, and I went back to the source of the point to prove I was the one correctly following the argument while you were strawmanning:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
You objected to the contrasting use of "Jewish faith" and "orthodox community".


see its unending shape shifting. that was not the argument, its what you changed the argument to be. (now quote some of my shorthand and pretend it was the original point.)

Ifr there is any shape-shifting it is yours. Now you are pretending you didn't say what you said.

More strawmanning on your part: I didn't say you initially objected. That would make no sense. That was one of your come backs after you initially attacked my views.

You stated in Post 169:
quote:

First you correctly said "faith" then you move the goal posts to conflate it with "community".
- there you go, actual proof of your strawmanning.

BTW The word is spilt not spit.



thompsonx -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 2:56:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:


quote:
I didn't wish to discuss the 60 minutes interview particularly because I have seen several of his bullshit interviews already.

You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.


Now you are just repeating yourself. I have explained at length why I'm not interested in the interview because I have heard his obfuscations in quite a number of other interviews.

Nonetheless I said I would be happy to discuss it with you if you wish to cite the relevant points which disprove the contentions in the material I provided. You are the one contesting said points so it is up to you to cite the relevant material.

Your failure to do such a simple thing which others (including myself) do all the time on here suggests you are just fleeing the scene.





You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.




Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 3:06:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
That is so very comical. I see you are using the tactic of accusing others of what you are doing yourself.

Here you accuse me of not following arguments but where you misrepresent what you stated previously I have sourced the old quotes in each case so you won't get away with it.


and again as I pointed out above in bold.

quote:

If anyone here is "spinning" something it is yourself with vague accusations you can't even back up.


Got any more entertaining "opinions"?

The above is an excellent example of how you obfuscate. You have not refuted a single point above - you simply type drivel that means absolutely nothing, and you didn't even bold any text to which you were supposedly referring! I think this is your method to get the last word in. It certainly seems that way in every discussion you get into.

quote:


quote:

It does make them extreme whether you like it or not. If a group that is part of the Jewish faith but advocates religious values that are far more intolerent than even most other elements of the orthodox community then that makes them extreme. The Neturei Karta are part of the Ultra-Orthodox element, which is a sub-part of the more moderate Orthodox faithful. They demand segregated buses even in New York and Jerusalem, place signs up telling people to dress modestly in their areas and are known to attack those who do not. It was a member fo the Ultra-Orthodox (not Neturei Karta but a group similarly extreme and anti-Zionist) who spat on an eight year old girl in Israel last month.


No it does not make them extreme, it proves they are true to the religion, nothing more. Extreme is a zionist opinion about any religion.

you think intolerance makes them extreme, lets start talking about Doms out here next. LMAO

Have a look at the meaning of the word "extreme": "Extending far beyond the norm: an extreme conservative. Of the greatest severity; drastic" - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extreme - thus by being part of an intensely religious group that is more extreme than virtually all other forms of Judaism they are "extreme"

I also like how stupid you sound because whilst denying that the NK are "extreme" because they agree with your views, you suggest that those you disagree with are extreme! [:D]

quote:


quote:

Sarcastic bite? Bwa ha ha! Whilst pretending you didn't refer to the Jews with extreme contempt lol you still take the opportunity to deny the Holocaust yet again.


Well unless you want to claim that Hitler made an olah offering to G-D it was a catastrophe. Rabbis words. Nope google it LOL

So you are suggesting the Holocaust was a "catastrophe"? Are you finally acknowledging ithe Holocaust happened? [:D]

quote:


quote:

Here you are yet again strawmanning. I repeatedly stated in the thread that I was not talking about Zionism as a religion, and it cannot be found in the quote you are replying to either. You don't have a single honesty bone do you? I was talking about the Neturei Karta being extremist with respect to their intense religious values and belief in conspiracism.


I am not talking about it as a religion either however you raise it to that level in your responses. try and keep up

Here you are again strawmanning. Zionism was not a significant topic of discussion in these posts. You were the one to repeatedly bring it up.

Secondly, you repeatedly stated Zionism was not a religion when Judasim was being discussed as if I was suggesting it was a religion. I did no such thing.

I might add that anti-Semitism is not a religion either, although you evidentially thing it is! [:D]

quote:


quote:

More obfuscation by pretend to be saying what you didn't say. You said you were an expert to which I replied that, if it was true, you were either an expert-but-a-liar or someone lacking any knowledge because you cited the Neturei Karta as representative of Judaism generally. You then passed the question back to me with "Oh and now I am a liar with no knowledge?" so I had to explain to you yet again what I meant. Now you're pretending your simple words meant otherwise, and using it to justify an insult. How stupid you are.

Did I now. News to me. Just more of your back-peddling and jockeying for a position that does not make you look so foolish.

I referenced NK as representing judaism accurately. the rest is your shit mess.

Yes you did, and again you repeat the lie, which merely proves my point! Thanks for that! [:D]

Once again you are pretending the Neturei Karta are representative of Judasim when they have been virtually excommunicated by other Jews http://www.reutrcohen.com/2008/07/neturei-karta-fringe-group-with-close.html and only rperesent a tiny minority of some 5,000 when there are 14 million Jews alive today.



Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 3:07:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:


quote:
I didn't wish to discuss the 60 minutes interview particularly because I have seen several of his bullshit interviews already.

You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.


Now you are just repeating yourself. I have explained at length why I'm not interested in the interview because I have heard his obfuscations in quite a number of other interviews.

Nonetheless I said I would be happy to discuss it with you if you wish to cite the relevant points which disprove the contentions in the material I provided. You are the one contesting said points so it is up to you to cite the relevant material.

Your failure to do such a simple thing which others (including myself) do all the time on here suggests you are just fleeing the scene.

You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.

You are repeating yourself yet again!!! If there is such a ting as broken-record-itis you definitely have it! [:D]



thompsonx -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 5:19:35 PM)

You post ignorant unsubstantiated opinion and when apprised of the fact that your opinions have been refuted you refuse to view the refutation. You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.




Real0ne -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 8:09:12 PM)

Yep what Thompson said.

This is the 3rd time around the track and your stank hole of verbal masturbation just keeps getting deeper and stankier. 

I made sufficiently my point.



tweakabelle -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 8:26:09 PM)

Thank you for sorting that little derail out thompsonsx. Can we now get back to the thread please?


quote:

quote:

tweakabelle

Broadly speaking, one side - can we agree to call it the legalist case - is arguing for the same set of rules to apply to every country equally, to be enforced rigorously and without favours or exceptions. This view holds that the actions in Iran were terrorist and demands that the perpetrators are made accountable for their actions.


Aylee
Except that is not true. We allow these cultures to have "special" rules that are based on their culture. Things such as their treatment of women. And young boys.


Of course 'our' treatment of women is so much more advanced isn't it?
http://www.smh.com.au/world/how-much-are-the-kids-i-never-had-worth--forced-sterilisation-victim-20120129-1qns4.html
And should I ask a Catholic priest for a second opinion about 'our' treatment of young boys?


quote:

quote:

tweakabelle

The other argument - the tribal one - is trying to justify those actions on various spurious grounds, even resorting to contentious hypotheticals. Their arguments seem to boil down to 'might is right' and 'we're right and they're wrong' therefore it's OK for 'us' to do whatever we like but if 'they' do the same, they're terrorists. It seeks to excuse the perpetrators.


Aylee
The tribal society allows for long drawn out vedettas, honor killings, and the impossibility of ever bringing peace to the Middle East. They cannot trust anyone outside of their tribe.


Of course the Haditha massacre - the slaughter of 24 unarmed civilians by some US Marine animals - is a prime example of 'our' commitment to special rights isn' t? The people responsible for this mass murder avoid conviction and punishment. Mind you, it wasn't an honour killing, as you point out, though some might call it a vendetta.

The Haditha massacre definitely was a war crime and a massacre, and the perpetrators get off almost scot free. Why? Because they belong to the 'right' tribe and the victims belonged to the 'other' tribe.

Like I said, your tribe is just as tribal as the other tribe Aylee. So please stop claiming special privileges, judging others and thinking you're superior. You're not. Your tribe is just a little bit different, better in some respects, worse in others. But that can be said about every tribe.



Anaxagoras -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 8:42:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
You post ignorant unsubstantiated opinion and when apprised of the fact that your opinions have been refuted you refuse to view the refutation. You do not want to discuss it because it will expose your bullshit post for what they are ...uninformed willful ignorance.

Bluster and lie as much as you wish, and pretend as much as you want that my "opinions" have been refuted as if by magic without even stating the substance of that refutation - thats what forums are for, discussing ideas and arguments. You made no argument except to tell a stranger to spend a long time watching a programme you wouldn't even link to.

The "fact" remains that I asked you many times to cite the points in the interview that you felt contradicted or disproved the sources I cited. It was a very reasonable request, and you failed to do so. Rather than oblige in doing what you ought to have done anyway, you attack instead and belittle those you disagree with. It says a lot about your "character".


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Yep what Thompson said.

This is the 3rd time around the track and your stank hole of verbal masturbation just keeps getting deeper and stankier.

I made sufficiently my point.

Agreed, you have made your point, and it was shown to be completely wrong. I must also point out that your sexualised scat-influenced language which you direct at the males on here, with whom you disagree with, is indicative of a general foulness of personality. When it comes to your character (and possibe tendencies), the words "shit-in, shit-out" are apt.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 10:28:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Thank you for sorting that little derail out thompsonsx. Can we now get back to the thread please?

thompsonx is posting?!  [8D]




quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Of course the Haditha massacre - the slaughter of 24 unarmed civilians by some US Marine animals - is a prime example of 'our' commitment to special rights isn' t? The people responsible for this mass murder avoid conviction and punishment. Mind you, it wasn't an honour killing, as you point out, though some might call it a vendetta.

The Haditha massacre definitely was a war crime and a massacre, and the perpetrators get off almost scot free. Why? Because they belong to the 'right' tribe and the victims belonged to the 'other' tribe.

Like I said, your tribe is just as tribal as the other tribe Aylee. So please stop claiming special privileges, judging others and thinking you're superior. You're not. Your tribe is just a little bit different, better in some respects, worse in others. But that can be said about every tribe.

You have just placed yourself in your own "tribe", one in which you condemn others not within your tribe as "animals".

The next step is to eliminate these non-human "animal" pest by rounding them up, shooting them down and/or taking their scalps.

In other words, you are as tribal as those you condemn.

Firm



tweakabelle -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 10:37:29 PM)

quote:

In other words, you are as tribal as those you condemn.


My! My! Aren't we are quick off the blocks today, Firm? Thank you for confirming my point.

We're all tribal in the sense that we all belong to cultures. You me and everyone else in the world. Aylee was claiming special privileges for her 'tribe'. I was trying to point out to Aylee that her tribe was just another tribe and had no unique claim to special privileges. I am most certainly NOT claiming any special privileges for myself or my tribe.

As no tribe is inherently better or worse than any other tribe, the only way we can all get along is to have one set of rules that apply to everyone (all tribes/cultures/countries) equally. It's called international law and there are no exceptions to its universal application. If you accept that logic, and you appear to be signalling that you do Firm, then the inescapable logical consequence of that is that you condemn the murders of the Iranian scientists as terrorist acts.

I'm glad you've finally seen the light. [:D]



FirmhandKY -> RE: Who is Killing Iranian Nuclear Scientist? (1/29/2012 10:53:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

In other words, you are as tribal as those you condemn.


My! My! Aren't we are quick off the block today, Firm? Thank you for confirming my point.

We're all tribal in the sense that we all belong to cultures. You me and everyone else in the world. Aylee was claiming special privileges for her 'tribe'. I was trying to point out to Aylee that her tribe was just another tribe and had no unique claim to special privileges.

As no tribe is inherently better or worse than any other tribe, the only way we can all get along is to have one set of rules that apply to everyone equally. If you accept that logic, and it appears that you do Firm, then the logical consequence of that is that you condemn the murders of the Iranian scientists as terrorist acts.

I'm glad you've finally seen the light.

Just applying your own logic to your own words, my dear. [8D]

That being said ...

You are using a very expansive understanding of tribalism. I do believe that "tribalism" is most likely an inherent biological construct of the human evolutionary history and mind, but so is culture and so is society.  I believe that we are predisposed by our evolutionary history in these matters, but not necessarily restricted to them.

"Tribalism" as you are discussing it is more "in-group/out-group" and nation-states, instead of the classical and more common understanding of the organization of tribes.

As well, I disagree with your "no tribe is better than another" claim. Any group which actually believes that is doomed to extinction, and the earth will be populated by groups who do not believe in such foolishness. As this has likely already happened 100,000s or millions of years ago, your argument has been weighed and found wanting a long time ago.

Whether or not the killing of the scientist in Iran is "murder" can only be determined based on the motives for the killings.  I tend to guess (since neither I nor any other poster knows beyond any real doubt) that it isn't murder, but part of a nation-state conflict, and therefore legal and sanctioned, and therefore not "murder".

Anything else you want to try to rope me into, tweak? [;)]

Firm



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