RE: Morals and values (Full Version)

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xxblushesxx -> RE: Morals and values (1/22/2012 8:50:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BootyBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

This is a spin off from another thread.

1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you?


1) The first moral question isn't too hard to decipher. It's the basic morality of an honored contract. If people do not honor (or are not held to honor) such contracts, then there could be no civilization. There would be no laws, because they would change every day. There would be no trade or business, because most of the time, when you payed or gave a service, the other party would just stiff you. Obviously, the most basic level of morality is to keep your word. Without that, there is nothing. Nobody is forcing people to get married, but once a person IS married then they should honor that contract until it is nullified.

2) Name the country? Name the State? To my knowledge, spanking is only seen as assault, if it is injurious and non-consensual.

3) As far as hiding BDSM, or being discreet about it, this does not imply a feeling of guilt at doing something wrong. You may "hide" how much money you make, for many reasons--none of them being because it's wrong to make as much money as you do. You may "hide" your love watching Barney the dinosaur. You may not tell anybody that your pajamas have footsies sewn on. None of these things are immoral.

But on a more practical level, you may not fancy trying to explain BDSM to your grandmother, or your boss, or your childhood doctor. it may not be wrong, but people make choices every day what they will tell certain people and what they will not. That doesn't imply guilt, but rather, expediency. If I don't wish to explain all of my fetishes to my mom, or aunt, or co-workers, then that's OK. I can make choices that make that eventuality much less likely. (Like not plastering my mug all across the Internet) Other people don't have the same concerns and so can choose differently, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with morality.

So, if you were trying to use this as some kind of conditional ethics primer, then you are far off base.



More reasons bootyboy rocks:

1. I don't tell people how much money I make
2. Yes, I do secretly love Barney (or did at one time...but I like Spongebob better now)
3. I actually do wear footie pajamas almost every winter night. (they're cute and cuddly and have cute lil duckies on them...so?!!)

None of these are fetishes to me, but...I admit...they are all true. [:-][:(]



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Morals and values (1/22/2012 9:04:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: risktaker9

1. Wrong.
2. Right, if I consent to it.
3. Yes, I am discreet as it's no one's business what i do in private.
Revisiting the site, I just tend to find the shorthand to my thoughts, and ristktaker9's does exactly.
Happy sunday everybody! M




ResidentSadist -> RE: Morals and values (1/22/2012 10:18:05 PM)

I believe in ownership and brutal honesty, especially in a poly.  How can I really know someone and control them if they don't reveal who they are and keep secrets from me?  So for me, married and cheating is a hard concept to see in a positive light.  On the other hand, I have seen outside affairs relieve the stress in troubled marriages.  But to me, I think married and cheating is just a poly wannabe and you are being dishonest with yourself and your partner about who you are and what you want. 

I don't hide my BDSM.  In my corporate offices we exported goods to 45 countries and had visitors from all over the world.  On the office wall hung a whip.  Below it read "Employee Incentive Program".  If a visitor asked about the whip, my answer was simply that I lead an alternative lifestyle.  Often these businessmen whom had learned to dominate their markets, admitted they were dominant in their personal lives too.

In my personal life, my relatives, friends, butcher, mechanic, family doctor, the waiters at my favorite restaurant and the people at the nail salon all knew we were into some kind of alternative lifestyle.  I don't hide who I am or my position and perspectives in life. 

I have been out and about with people that normally concealed their alt lifestyle perspectives.  They found that when I was open about it, my joy and passion was contagious and it infected the people we came in contact with.  We got accepted for who we are and our alternative viewpoints are refreshing. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready
. . . I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?




BootyBoy -> RE: Morals and values (1/22/2012 10:23:11 PM)

@xxblushesxx

Ha! I would never have guessed that you loved Barney!
Was it sadism or masochism that drove you to it? :-)



Whenready -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 12:20:58 AM)

Thanks for responses all, especially ML, booty boy & dark steven.

I asked the question because I wanted to know what people thought, not to find someone (that's what the profile is for) or because I was looking to justify what I do.

Dark Steven hit the "circumstances" nail on the head. (Scratch your itch; I don't want to know) - and I go along with his "sorta ok". So yes, I'm wrong in what I do, but it's a wrong I can live with - and she can live with - and I fully accept its one others can't.

ML said Very simply - wrong is when my actions negatively affect others, or where they run a real risk of negatively affecting others. I agree with what he says, but my question was also (in SOME places) "the law says this is wrong - but we do it anyway because we're consenting". A number have people have commented on "x is wrong but I can live with y" (I'm oversimplifying) which answers my question.

Booty's answer was clear & well thought out - thank you one and all.



sincelo -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 12:40:07 AM)

quote:

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?


I don't hide bdsm out of guilt or need to protect myself really. I do it because i generally assume most people dont want to know about my sex life. If i feel guilty about what i am doing then i should not be doing it. Getting spanked by someone i am in a relationship with does not cause me guilt nor would getting spanked when i am not in a relationship. Cheating on my mate causes me guilt and i say this from experience sadly. I wish i could say that i have never....



DarkSteven -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 1:46:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

Dark Steven hit the "circumstances" nail on the head. (Scratch your itch; I don't want to know) - and I go along with his "sorta ok". So yes, I'm wrong in what I do, but it's a wrong I can live with - and she can live with - and I fully accept its one others can't.



My post may have been misinterpreted.  I had said that if she doesn't know, it's wrong, and if she does but doesn't want to hear about individual encounters it's "sorta okay".  I did not intend for "if she knew, it would be hard on her so I'll hide it from her" to be sorta okay.



RaspberryLemon -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 2:19:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready
1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?


1) If your spouse knows and agrees to it, there's no problem. Not my thing, but if you are being open and honest and there is consent from your spouse (to whom you've pledged your life to) it isn't morally wrong as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I would never be "in a relationship and seeking" regardless of the context, but that's just me.

2) Law does not determine morality. As far as I am concerned, as long as both parties are consenting to it, there's no "wrong" going on there.

3) I have nothing to hide. I don't hide the dynamics of my relationship but I also don't advertise it. I don't mind people knowing about it, but I don't tell them about it unless they ask. And they usually don't ask, so I leave it at that.



Kaliko -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 3:14:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

This is a spin off from another thread.

1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?


A. I'm a little concerned that people lately seem so worried about "personal attacks." I don't know that I would like a bleached version of the boards so much. Anyway, this isn't an attack, but it may be construed as such. At best, I'm sure it will be considered preachy. Sorry about that.

B. You are looking for validation for your choice. I've been there. Though I didn't actually take that step to actual cheating on my husband, I came very, very, very close. I understand how it can happen, and how you can be so spun up and unhappy that you may very well think that you're doing the right thing. You're thinking that because you are in the state of mind you're in. Once you're out of it all (whether through working it out with your other half or otherwise) you will see it all more clearly.

I don't know what your circumstances are, of course. I'm not assuming anything. Perhaps it's as simple as you very much love your other half but feel the desire to be with others. But if you are not in a relationship in which you can talk about that, or if you are not in a lifestyle in which you can freely live that without deceit, and if you are in a situation in which you must sneak around to find it, then you are in a situation in which you are not fulfilled, or you are unhappy, or ... something. Fix it, whatever it is. Don't bandage it with deceit because it won't heal. And you will be the most unhappy one of all until you've faced it and dealt with it however you need to.

C. I can't even answer your questions. Of course there is a difference between cheating on your spouse and keeping your intimate activities private. You know that.





gungadin09 -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 3:53:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready
So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you?

I don't know if I can express what "honest" is as a hard and fast rule.  I will do you the justice to say: I think we are all dishonest at various times, and to various degrees, in our lives, by making choices about which truths we express and which we hide, even from ourselves.  That said, cheating on a spouse crosses over a line with me.

If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it?

I don't see myself as "hiding" my involvement with BDSM.  I think if most anyone directly asked me about it, I would give an honest answer.  It's just that I don't go around broadcasting the fact.  I'm an atheist too, and I don't advertise that fact either.  It has less to do with having something to hide, and more to do with the fact that it's personal, and in most cases, nobody else's business.

And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum?

Depends on the reason for hiding it.  I think the same applies to anything that we hide.

Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you?

See above.


pam



xxblushesxx -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 4:11:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BootyBoy

@xxblushesxx

Ha! I would never have guessed that you loved Barney!
Was it sadism or masochism that drove you to it? :-)


I think it was the hours and hours of nonconsensual exposure. [&:][:(]



xxblushesxx -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 4:15:06 AM)

Shameless hi-jack, but Kaliko, your avi is absolutely gorgeous!! </hi-jack>

As far as the OP's reason for cheating, the problem I have with it is this; there is no way to verify. Maybe he's telling the truth, and maybe he's not. There's no way to know. But since he's willing to cheat, is it a jump to say he might be willing to lie to get what he wants?



kalikshama -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 5:16:53 AM)

quote:

Oh, and would you care if she's been sleeping with your best friend for the past 6 months.


No no no - HIS affairs are ok because "they don't mean anything!"

quote:

But since he's willing to cheat, is it a jump to say he might be willing to lie to get what he wants?


By definition, a cheater IS willing to lie.



kalikshama -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 5:30:55 AM)

1. I need to trust the man who is tying me up and torturing me. Knowing that he is lying to the woman to whom he has pledged his troth prevents the possibility of trust for me.

2. So?

3. Since 6 of my coworkers knew to various degrees, I assume all of them knew. My family knows, but not details.




Kana -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 7:27:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

This is a spin off from another thread.

1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?


1-If she knows and you are open about it, cool by me. Otherwise you're a sleazebag.
2-No, Assault is verbally threatening someone, battery is actually carrying through on said threats.
3-I am...to an extent. I mean lots of folks know I like kinky sex. I don't go into details (Because I possess this lil thing called tact), but most people know I'm a bit freaky...and that shocks nobody who knows me at all.
Why do I exercise discretion?
Because I'm a freaking realist. It doesn't matter what I think about how BDSM should or shouldn't be viewed. What does matter is how the world views it and reacts to it. And right now, in this day and age, folks still don't work well with the idea-see the articles re the Virgina Dean with a profile on here.
Not just that, but well, frankly, call me old fashioned here, but I think that what folks do need not be shoved down others throats, and that it would be rude to force my sexual ideals upon others, just as it would be rude to cram my political or religious beliefs on others.
So yeah, I exercise discretion, mostly because I'm an adult.



OsideGirl -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 9:44:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready


Dark Steven hit the "circumstances" nail on the head. (Scratch your itch; I don't want to know) - and I go along with his "sorta ok". So yes, I'm wrong in what I do, but it's a wrong I can live with - and she can live with - and I fully accept its one others can't.
And if I was approached in that situation, I'd be seriously wondering about a relationship that gets to that point.



lostinmyownmind -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 10:00:33 AM)

I will not have anything to do with a married man. Period. I do not care what your story is or what sort of arrangement you have with your wife. My feelings about the matter are there on my profile and if you don't like them, I don't care. There are plenty of cheating females on these sites and you both will get what you deserve in the end.
PS- Karma is a bitch.



Ninebelowzero -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 10:05:42 AM)

1/ I went 46 months without sex at all as my relationship with the ex disintegrated. I coulda shoulda oughta. But I didn't. Go figure
2/ The law has nothing to do with what I do. As far as I am concerned the state finishes at my garden gate.
3/ The only reason I play it quiet is that I'm a registered rugby coach, specifically dealing with minors. I still hold out that my boy wants to play again & if he does he has the makings of a fucking great international No.4. (you reading this seababy?) So I need the access to coach him. I lose that if it gets out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

This is a spin off from another thread.

1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?




LadyPact -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 10:45:44 AM)

Something of a different take here.  This is just My perspective.

I do happen to be married and I also happen to be poly.  From a relationship perspective, aside from My children and grands, My husband is the most important relationship in My life.  Because of that fact, I pretty much consider him the person who is most entitled to honesty, and that includes My BDSM activities.  The only area where this gets a little tricky are those areas where I am dealing with those subjects in relation to the confidentiality in regard to My submissive.  Since there is no joint ownership here, if there is some sort of disciplinary problem, it's sufficient to state that without giving details, and handle it within My authority.

The legal aspect is different.  I've actually had police come knocking at the door twice when I was engaged in S/m.  I was fully prepared to be honest about what I was doing and deal with any consequences.  That's a bit different than walking Myself into the police station and turning Myself in because of what I got up to the last time that I played.  I don't go out of My way to do that because while I respect the authority that we all have to acknowledge in society, My relationship with it on a personal level is that I'm not emotionally bonded to it. 

The fact that I don't announce the BDSM stuff in the middle of the vanilla stuff doesn't mean that I'm hiding it.  There's actually a lot of cross over for Me depending on My relationship to the third party.  The majority of folks in My life know that I'm poly and/or kinky if they are more than just an acquaintance. 

I don't have an issue with a statement such as "it isn't any of your business".  However, there has to be some honesty connected with that, too.  A person does have a right to know something if it directly effects them. 



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Morals and values (1/23/2012 11:55:35 AM)

People assume dishonesty when dishonesty is implied. I personally see no problem whatsoever with an open marriage, where honesty is key and all parties are happy with the relationship. However my experience has been somewhat different the 'circumstances' has been telling me the partner knows, they aren't really together, sleep in different beds and just keep it together for the kids. A rather wonderful phone conversation with the female part of that relationship, which didn't make me feel like the nastiest slut in the world, informed me that what I believed was the truth wasn't. I always assumed that I would be able to tell lie from truth, I was wrong. Luckily I am not looking for a relationship any more, but if I were I would be very wary of married people because of experience. Now that isn't to say I am right to tar all with the same brush but it means I am far less nieve about 'circumstances'

People have talked about the idea of consent and that really is key here. Yes what we do can sometimes be seen in the worst possible way, and indeed could be illegal but as has been said it has to be reported. This then may well link to the final part about keeping things private.

I personally never have before now, work always knew all my friends and family know but my career has changed and I can be less sure about whether what I do will be reported and so I keep it quiet. I loved the freedom I had when I had it but I am aware this freedom changes from job to job and country to county. However, there are still times i will tell people now.



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