Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 1:55:22 PM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline 		I can't be the only one to notice how Obama's addresses are meant for the lowest common denominator. His most recent address was absolutely laughable and it was a low point in American politics.

Apparently, a couple of researchers from the University of Minnesota agree with me: Link.

"Obama's SOTU addresses have the lowest average Flesch-Kincaid score of any modern president; Obama owns three of the six lowest-scoring addresses since FDR."

No wonder why so many lefties think he's a great speaker!


< Message edited by provfivetine -- 1/25/2012 1:58:03 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 1:57:42 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Then at least some of the house understood it.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 1:59:38 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

I can't be the only one to notice how Obama's addresses are meant for the lowest common denominator. His most recent address was absolutely laughable and it was a low point in American politics.

Apparently, a couple of researchers from the University of Minnesota agree with me: [link=http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/smartpolitics/2012/01/my_message_is_simple_obamas_so.php[/link]

"Obama's SOTU addresses have the lowest average Flesch-Kincaid score of any modern president; Obama owns three of the six lowest-scoring addresses since FDR."

No wonder why so many lefties think he's a great speaker!


I had the same thought last night provfivetine,as a matter of fact while watching it I said out loud "this speech is meant for Republicans "
Great minds and all that,eh?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 2:00:52 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine
I can't be the only one to notice how Obama's addresses are meant for the lowest common denominator

So he's aiming them higher than the chimp or Reagan did, at least.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 2:06:54 PM   
Miserlou


Posts: 264
Joined: 12/20/2011
Status: offline 		it was a speech, not an essay. long sentences and words are not generally wanted in a speech.

its interesting that this test that is designed to gauge the readability level of a written text wasn't used to assess the readability level of the 5 written addresses.

its also worth noting this line: "Dragging down Obama's Flesch-Kincaid score are the series of short sentences written - perhaps for dramatic effect - on a number of policy issues." of course it was for dramatic effect, the sotu is political theatre not high rhetoric.


_____________________________

Misery

and the history books forgot about us

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 2:14:21 PM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline 		The State of the Union is not meant to convince the opposing political party of the President's intention/beliefs/plans; it's meant to convince the American people of that.

This "dumbing down" isn't necessarily an indictment on Obama per-se, but rather that of the American public who have had their intelligence diminished with every generation.


(in reply to Miserlou)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 2:14:45 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Perhaps rather than trying to show how smart he is...he is talking in every day language trying to get people to understand what he is saying with no mistakes. The score you link to does not take into account speech patterns that are changing over time. All languages change and words drop into and out of popularity. This I believe is not because of the relative intelligence of message but because of the changing way people communicate... You would think the academics at "Smart* Politics" would know that.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 3:10:13 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

The State of the Union is not meant to convince the opposing political party of the President's intention/beliefs/plans; it's meant to convince the American people of that.

This "dumbing down" isn't necessarily an indictment on Obama per-se, but rather that of the American public who have had their intelligence diminished with every generation.



Oh goodie......someone superior enough to chide the American public for the choices they make at the ballot.

Tell us please.......if it`s not to much trouble sir,what`s it like to be that awesome?



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 3:18:23 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I can't be the only one to notice how Obama's addresses are meant for the lowest common denominator. His most recent address was absolutely laughable and it was a low point in American politics.


You are very young, and never saw Reagan's speeches, complete with visual aids...like stack of dollar bills on the Oval Office desk.

Everything was oh so simple. A shining city on a hill.

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 3:29:39 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine
The State of the Union is not meant to convince the opposing political party of the President's intention/beliefs/plans; it's meant to convince the American people of that.


Actually, no.

quote:

ORIGINAL US Constitution Article II Section 3
He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient;


While the modern-day version may be nothing more than an elongated political commercial (It's amazing to me how many times I hear it referred to as the "State of the Union show "), it is a constitutional requirement of the office of POTUS.

I didn't watch the address because it has become as you suggested; an hour-long (or so) infomercial to the American people that usually bears no force and effect to what actually winds up happening. ie; a president can want to do just about anything but, if he can't convince congress or the senate, there's little hope of any change occurring.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 1/25/2012 3:32:19 PM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 3:29:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		We had a governor once (Al Quie (R)) who explained the budget to us on TV by cutting up a loaf of bread, talk about an exemplary use of taxpayers money....

That right there?  I got it....bread is bread!!!!

But I believe the stats I've read are; if you fashion your speech at around a 6th grade level, you reach the widest audience, even though some are not as smart as a 5th grader.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 3:33:39 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

a president can want to do just about anything but, if he can't convince congress or the senate, there's little hope of any change occurring.


He was a little heavy on executive orders...in fact, not counting on Congress.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 3:35:07 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

But I believe the stats I've read are; if you fashion your speech at around a 6th grade level, you reach the widest audience, even though some are not as smart as a 5th grader.



The average American IQ is 98.

No, I'm not making that up.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 3:35:25 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Agreed, since absolutely not one of his proposals would be slated for legislation in the dsyfunction of congress.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 3:37:53 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

a president can want to do just about anything but, if he can't convince congress or the senate, there's little hope of any change occurring.


He was a little heavy on executive orders...in fact, not counting on Congress.


I started referring to President Bush (Sr.) as: "King George I" because he was ridiculously prolific with EOs, by-passing the checks and balances that I hold so dear.

And you're right; over-use of the power of EO is a reason for me to dislike how a president governs.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 4:04:40 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The average American IQ is 98.

No, I'm not making that up.


Yep





Attrib: Gary Larson


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 1/25/2012 4:05:43 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 5:24:08 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

US Constitution Article II Section 3
He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient;


Yes, thank you for reminding people of this.

Originally, the requirement was interpreted as a written document that was given to Congress and was not a speech to the American public at all. I'm not sure when it became a speech, and when it became a speech that was directed more to the public than to Congress, but there you have it.

To the OP - I think analyzing a speech in this manner makes no sense. Speeches are designed to communicate. And if he was able to communicate clearly and effectively, then end of story. What is interesting about your link is that even the top ranked speeches only ranked a grade 12 level. In other words, not incredibly more impressive. We are talking a narrow margin here, and I'm not sure it is all that meaningful. Obama was giving a speech to the American public. Not defending a dissertation in front of a panel of PhDs.

Given what has happened to media in the last decade, and how communication in the media generally works (sound bites, catchy phrases, etc.), being simple and dramatic has become the preferred way of communicating unless one is writing an academic paper. I am big on making things accessible. Fancy words and long sentences do not necessarily add to clarity. If you criticized the speech for being inaccessible, I might have more of a concern. But to argue against its clarity???

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 5:33:03 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		One of my brothers has a genius level IQ and was an air traffic controller in the USAF, stationed in Texas for 4 years but now can`t seem to manage to keep any job or girlfriend for more than a year.

Go figure.


I would prefer wisdom and common sense over super-smarts any day


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/25/2012 5:40:36 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 5:37:23 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

But I believe the stats I've read are; if you fashion your speech at around a 6th grade level, you reach the widest audience, even though some are not as smart as a 5th grader.



The average American IQ is 98.

No, I'm not making that up.



That high huh.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address - 1/25/2012 7:11:47 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Obama just figured out something that FOX news has known for years.

Almost half of all Americans are of below average intelligence. Appeal to all them and you're golden.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Dumb and Dumber: State of the Union Address Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109