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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 5:41:19 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Personally, When someone refers to "The Chimp, Newtshit, Obrocolli, Ofailure, etc, I put the intelligence and veracity of the poster a step down or 3.

I WILL admit to using 'Dubya' for BushII but that is ONLY because that was on his bumper stickers and HE was using it. I figure if I call myself short, bald and ugly, I'm not going to gripe if someone else calls me that.


Edited because I'm a shitty typist.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/25/2012 5:44:04 PM >

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 5:50:52 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		I'm gonna toss another one out here separately.

I will say that gratuitous disrespect (Calling someone by names for those not intelligent enough to figure it out) actually is counterproductive.

In other words, saying "The Chimp" energises Democrats and talking about "Ofailure" actually energises Dems.

Both terms send Moderates the opposite way.

Those who have the intelligence should think about that.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 6:47:11 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Personally, When someone refers to "The Chimp, Newtshit, Obrocolli, Ofailure, etc, I put the intelligence and veracity of the poster a step down or 3.

I WILL admit to using 'Dubya' for BushII but that is ONLY because that was on his bumper stickers and HE was using it. I figure if I call myself short, bald and ugly, I'm not going to gripe if someone else calls me that.








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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 6:56:01 PM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

"Obama" doesn't bother me, but I do object to O'Blunder, Newtshit, The Chimp, etc.

I don't expect us to use the same standards as journalists who use titles, but I would hope that we could muster SOME standards.


Exactly this. I despised President Bush, however....I was still angry when he was referred to as "Chimp, Shrub, etc.,"  although probably I have used some sort of nicknames in anger, I am not proud of it. I do think that the person in office at least deserves to be called by the proper name, we can certainly still make our opinions known without sounding like idiots while doing so.  The repetitiveness of the 5th grade nonsense here gets so ridiculous.  I mean how many times do you guys think that it still sounds clever? After once it just sounds idiotic.


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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 7:06:41 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Personally, When someone refers to "The Chimp, Newtshit, Obrocolli, Ofailure, etc, I put the intelligence and veracity of the poster a step down or 3.

I WILL admit to using 'Dubya' for BushII but that is ONLY because that was on his bumper stickers and HE was using it. I figure if I call myself short, bald and ugly, I'm not going to gripe if someone else calls me that.








The straight. moderate male from the south and the lesbian Right Winger yankee have spoken

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 7:14:22 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I just noticed a poster complained about "Newtshit" who has never breathed a word about "O'Failure", "O'Bummer", "Jimmuh Cartuh" or whatever.
It's hard to take any message from that besides the notion that you can't talk about his boys like that, but the other bunch are fair game.
Fuck that: either they all are, or none of them are.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

But I get your argument ... as long as "they do it", then you are perfectly justified in "doing it to them".

Firm



how about all the wonderful pejoratives I have to listen to around here?

twoofer, tin foil, and a host of other veiled pejoratives that are directed 100% at me personally?

I guess those are acceptable though.



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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 7:15:06 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I'm with you to a point on this, Michael, and certainly when it comes to the occupant of the Oval Office. A few years back, this forum could have easily been mistaken for a contest to see who could come up with the nastiest ways to refer to President Bush. I commented on it often, and now, as an administration opponent with President Obama, I get the opportunity to practice what I preached. It isn't hard, and I'll still comment to those who feel the need to refer to him otherwise.

For the candidates though, not so much. It's a bit unfair, when they are running against an incumbent, I suppose, but most grown-up, rational people understand that life isn't always fair (see? easy shot at the President's speech last night, with no name-game required). Gingrich is going to be Newt, Romney is going to be Mitt, and those with personal class or character shortcomings are going to get far more elaborate than that in the months ahead. It can serve a lot of functions. Last campaign, I often refered to candidate Obama as, "Barry" the name he used in his youth. It was an easy way to point a little reminder at his lack of executive experience, and that he had never been tested in any position of power and leadership. We are a bit hard on our candidates, and given the enormity of the job they want, I'm quite ok with a bit of hazing.

There is also the completely legitimate role of satire in our political discourse. Now some people are good at it, some have their moments, and other just turn into self-righteous, poo-flinging, monkeys, but I can't see taking it off the table.

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 7:18:39 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

"Obama" doesn't bother me, but I do object to O'Blunder, Newtshit, The Chimp, etc.

I don't expect us to use the same standards as journalists who use titles, but I would hope that we could muster SOME standards.


Exactly this. I despised President Bush, however....I was still angry when he was referred to as "Chimp, Shrub, etc.,"  although probably I have used some sort of nicknames in anger, I am not proud of it. I do think that the person in office at least deserves to be called by the proper name, we can certainly still make our opinions known without sounding like idiots while doing so.  The repetitiveness of the 5th grade nonsense here gets so ridiculous.  I mean how many times do you guys think that it still sounds clever? After once it just sounds idiotic.



whats ridiculous is that people in the year 2012 cannot see past the 2 party 1 dictator paradigm in this country.

but then so many have a secret desire to be cheerleaders without a cause.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 7:21:33 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		and the so called "founders" came "just" short of shooting each other, to show you what panzie asses we are today.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 7:30:04 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline 		I suppose it depends on to an extent on variations in culture but personally I think not using titles isn't disrespectful. Even using first names isn't that bad IMHO. In the past I objected to Palin being called a certain four-letter word referring to female genitalia. Some didn't seem to have a problem with it, probably due to their politics. I don't like her much either but its going a bit far by being that nasty. There must be a definite line between legitimate criticism, which is of course a vital part of democracy and should never be limited, and abuse. In a way I feel sorry for politicians these days because as soon as they put themselves forward for election they are fair game for intense abuse.

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 7:37:24 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDaddy155

Sorry man, Newt is a liar and charlatan from the word go. He had to resign in disgrace after to failing to remove Clinton from office while he was cheating on his own wife. He was reprimanded by 196 (R) and 197 (D) when he resigned and fined 300,000$.

And he was cleared of all charges.

In respect to the thread ... I agree that - in general - calling a political figure a derogatory name doesn't improve the discussion, although occasionally, as an occasional, humorous aside its OK.

Last names to me are not disrepectful.  Even the first names, occasionally, depending on the individual.  Newt's first name is pretty distinctive, and I see no disrespect in calling him that in a discussion.

I do find some people's outrage over some of the names that Obama has been called pretty hypocritical, considering what they condoned while Bush was in office, but I still do not excuse people who call him (Obama) names.  Recently, Treasure even asked one such poster to reconsider his language, and I've said before that we shouldn't do it.

Firm


President Obama hasn`t allowed a major attack on the US......bush did with in months of taking office.

President Obama created more jobs in his 1st year than bush did his whole 8.

President Obama didn`t lie us into a war,like bush did.

President Obama hasn`t committed treason or leaked the IDs of our agents in the field who are defending us,like cheney did.

President Obama hasn`t tortured false confessions or used torture in the fight on terrorism like bush did.

How are normal people suposed to address complete failure and utter criminal negligence and not go off on them?

Some people earn the earnest reactions normal people display toward them.

Attacks can backfire too and even benefit the target.

The attack better have merit and ring true or the attacker is going to look really awful.....

Like the birthers do.

The Obamas have raised a huge amount of money off of them.

I`ve been told unequivocally not to use the word retard or any of its other forms or I get the mod-axe.

So I`ll have to be content with referring to bush/cheney as criminally negligent traitors and be happy.

Hrumff....







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President Obama

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 7:39:39 PM   
mcbride


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I guess I'll go with Voltaire on this one, and say to those who "name-bash" - I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.


It's not about rights. That would seem to be a red herring.  Anyone can say whatever they like, and if they don't agree to CM's TOS, they can say it on a thousand other sites. No one's suggesting eliminating the First Amendment, or freedom of speech in other countries, or even making these boards any less irreverent, but what's perfectly legal can be hostile, unworthy crap.

It's about class. Some schmuck who goes on about "libtards" and O'Blunder or Newtshit just has none, and lowers the level of debate in here. That almost certainly drives off some who might otherwise make thoughtful contributions, and leaves the angry bottom-feeders who can't make coherent arguments.

And thanks to the OP for the thread.


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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 7:59:54 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		I will admit (to kind of "answer" Firm and The Heritic) that, back in the day, when I was looking to be funny, I would refer to President Clinton as the "Commander-in-Heat" especially if the discussion was about his apparent proclivity for sex with ladies other than his wife. I no longer do that.

Someone mentioned the press. I used to go toe-to-toe with my editor because in "AP-Styled" reporting, one uses the person's whole name the first time and then, reverts to using a last name only (generally). I never did that. I still say it borders on disrespect. I remember being miffed about the New York Newsday newspaper referring to Mayor Koch as "Hizzoner". Even that tweaked me, a little bit.

This thread was not about asking people to not condemn public figures for wrong-doing. I have no problem with: "I think Congressman (or "Mr.", if we must) Gingrich is a lying scoundrel because ...". Not an issue at all. That was not where I was going.

I think most politicians are morally deficient. Much like how our legal system is supposed to work, however, I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they are actually found guilty of something.

To clear something up: One poster (I don't want to look back) said that Congressman Gingrich was "trying" to get President Clinton impeached. He succeeded. President Clinton was impeached but not removed from office.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

Kaliko; well played but I promise this is about the over-all tenor of the rhetoric that goes on around here. I'm amazed considering the lifestyle we espouse and how that lifestyle calls for courtesy, respect, and dignity. On this particular section of the boards, I see little of that.

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 8:52:44 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Daddy, where was all this..."concern" when *The Chimp* was in office?
And that's one of the kinder names.
"They can dish it out but they can't take it."
What's that saying about "karma?"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/25/2012 8:53:23 PM >

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 9:00:07 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Daddy, where was all this..."concern" when *The Chimp* was in office?
And that's one of the kinder names.
"They can dish it out but they can't take it."
What's that saying about "karma?"


Calling it Karma?lol

More like,"you did it so we`ll do it too."

But again,some disrespect is earned.................through very hard work.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/25/2012 9:27:23 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Daddy, where was all this..."concern" when *The Chimp* was in office?
And that's one of the kinder names.
"They can dish it out but they can't take it."
What's that saying about "karma?"


I stopped coming here in 2006 or 2007.

For my part, in the time preceding that, I tried to do my best to keep my own tone a reasonably respectful one.

I was not a fan of either President Bush (though the senior was a bit more palatable) but, I can only speak for my own actions. My concern has never wavered in this regard, though.

I was raised in a way that taught me that I called adults "Sir/Ma'am" or "Mister/Misses/Miss", etc. I was smacked in the head when I referred to "the crook in the whitehouse" (as I'd heard adults describe President Nixon). It wasn't because of what I'd said, per se. It was because I had been disrespectful to a person who had been bestowed a title and had not yet enjoyed due process.

So, you're asking why I never rose to President Bush's defense? I remember posting a rather lengthy post here when Whoopie Goldberg had made headlines because she had referred to President Bush as a part of the female anatomy at a roast, I believe. I was lambasted. That's fine. All's fair and all of that but, my position has never changed on this. It was what I was taught. It was what most of our fathers tried to teach us, I'm sure.

I had no love for President Bush II. I had a hard time defending most of his actions but I always felt a twinge when people referred to him in a derrogatory manner.

In this thread, I have "defended" President Clinton, Congressman Gingrich and I will take this opportunity to say that President Obama (IMO) should be referred to that way because he holds an office that should hold our respect, even if we can't respect the man. For my part, in this regard, I have frequently said that he seems like a likable guy. I just happen to despise his politics. He's still President Obama, when I type. By not giving this small modicum of respect, we are teaching those who come after us to hold the office with even more distain.

It's propriety. It's courtesy. It's just good manners and not doing so (again, IMO) reflects more on the offender than the target of the offense.

I have already admitted in this very thread that I have not been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to this principle but, I do try.

Even more troubling, though is the distain and disrespect with which some label fellow posters. As I pointed out in the OP: "Crazy Asshole righties" and "Lunatic Liberal lefties" are phrases that are beneath people that are supposed to espouse a lifestyle that holds respect and dignity to be of such great import.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/26/2012 12:01:37 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Daddy, where was all this..."concern" when *The Chimp* was in office?
And that's one of the kinder names.
"They can dish it out but they can't take it."
What's that saying about "karma?"


Im surprised at you, pops.

"Just because they did it" is really a valid enough excuse to lower yourself to that level?

I never did. And I never will.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/26/2012 12:06:19 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

that President Obama (IMO) should be referred to that way because he holds an office that should hold our respect,


I would be thrilled just to see him addressed as Obama.

quote:

As I pointed out in the OP: "Crazy Asshole righties" and "Lunatic Liberal lefties" are phrases that are beneath people that are supposed to espouse a lifestyle that holds respect and dignity to be of such great import.


There is a fine line when dealing with topics we have here. It could be very easy for a dominant to come along, demand respect from submissives, shout out our voices and talk down to us.

The man has said on more than one occassion...

"Treat them with the same amount of respect they treat you."

I have my orders.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/26/2012 1:58:42 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I guess I'll go with Voltaire on this one, and say to those who "name-bash" - I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.


It's not about rights. That would seem to be a red herring.  Anyone can say whatever they like, and if they don't agree to CM's TOS, they can say it on a thousand other sites. No one's suggesting eliminating the First Amendment, or freedom of speech in other countries, or even making these boards any less irreverent, but what's perfectly legal can be hostile, unworthy crap.

It's about class. Some schmuck who goes on about "libtards" and O'Blunder or Newtshit just has none, and lowers the level of debate in here. That almost certainly drives off some who might otherwise make thoughtful contributions, and leaves the angry bottom-feeders who can't make coherent arguments.

And thanks to the OP for the thread.




I disagree that just because there are schmucks out there that there cannot still be those who make thoughtful contributions. Welcome to reality. There will always be schmucks, and they will always try to lower the level of debate. My general strategy, here, and in life in general, is to ignore them. But I feel that I don't want to waste my time with them trying to get them to elevate their level of debate. If that is their level, that is their level, as my father always says. If it makes you and others feel better for trying to get their behavior to stop - well, all I have to say to that is good luck. It's unlikely to stop, and I'm not even sure I would necessarily want it to.

In countries like China, you could never refer to any politician the way we do here. One would get thrown in jail. Immediately. I'm not sure having the muzzle on people improves society. I still stand by my comment. Freedom of speech absolutely means that we can call our politicians names. If we want to have a country where that becomes a crime, then we absolutely will go the way of China. I don't disagree with your feeling about "class" - fine, it's not classy to refer to someone by name-calling. But asking people to stop, rather than just ignoring them, creates exactly the kind of atmosphere that existed in pre-revolutionary China - the notion that some people, like politicians, are "above" criticism or disdain, and telling people they cannot say hateful things about their politicians is absolutely putting a muzzle on free speech. I don't care whether it is Hitler, the Queen of England, or Obama who someone is talking about. If free speech means anything, it means you can call any of them names. I agree it's not the most elevated way to discuss things, but people are, and SHOULD be, free to do it.


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RE: Disrespect And Its Damage - 1/26/2012 2:09:59 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
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From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

Some schmuck who goes on about "libtards" and O'Blunder or Newtshit just has none, and lowers the level of debate in here. That almost certainly drives off some who might otherwise make thoughtful contributions, and leaves the angry bottom-feeders who can't make coherent arguments.


Be what you want to see, dude. Don't descend, rise.

Or not.

Your choice.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 40
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