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What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 5:40:37 AM

TheKingofHell

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I've heard about it but I don't really understand it at best I figure it would be along the lines of the sub only obeying the dom if the dom uses the word "please" when giving a command (that would be a funny arrangement when you think about it) or the sub some how manipulates the dom by pressing their buttons. That's just a for instance. Also can a sub topping from the bottom really be considered a sub?

< Message edited by TheKingofHell -- 1/28/2012 5:42:13 AM >

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 5:50:44 AM

experiment2

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from a subs point of view, topping from the bottom occurs when the sub really directs the top or Domme to get his or her own way or choices. For example if the bottom or sub is into CBT the sub influences the top to do that particular activity.

i see it as a matter of who is in control. It to me is not really a true Domme/sub relationship and tends to work to the subs pleasure not the Domme's as it should be.

(in reply to TheKingofHell)

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 5:58:12 AM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell

I've heard about it but I don't really understand it at best I figure it would be along the lines of the sub only obeying the dom if the dom uses the word "please" when giving a command (that would be a funny arrangement when you think about it) or the sub some how manipulates the dom by pressing their buttons. That's just a for instance. Also can a sub topping from the bottom really be considered a sub?

You know, I've never looked up a textbook definition of it, but I've come to believe that it is manipulation by the submissive of the dominant to lean activities and behaviors more towards what he/she wants than what the dominant desires.

If someone is in a D/s relationship, there should certainly be some discussion between the two so both parties are ultimately satisfied. At least, in my D/s relationships. I don't know how it translates outside of a relationship, or if it does, because for some reason I have it in my head that it's done almost without the knowledge - or conscious admittance - of the dominant, which likely takes some time to achieve. I'd be interested to know if I'm thinking of the term correctly.

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 6:06:18 AM

slutsMask

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Probably the best explanations I have seen for
Topping from the Bottom
and
Bottoming from the Top
along with an understanding not just of the WHAT these behaviors are,
but the why and how to avoid and grow out of both destructive behaviors,
can be found in the books by LTMorrison, The Devil in the Details. Vol I - VolIII. Vol I addresses this specifically.

(in reply to Kaliko)

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 6:49:04 AM

MariaB

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If the bottom isn't submissive and the top isn't dominant then topping from the bottom has nothing to do with poor dominance or a badly behaved submission. Some people just play for titillation and there is no D/s involved.

It could also result from a bottom ending up with a dominant or a submissive ending up with a top. Both frustrating and confusing and both could end up topping from the bottom.

It could also be a submissive/bottom mentoring a top/dominant or it could be a dissatisfied sub playing with an unadventurous or over exuberant dominant.

To simply say, 'the sub isn't submissive enough' is ridiculous. There are many reasons why topping from the bottom happens. Some of it is for joint fun and some of its from pure frustration.

(in reply to TheKingofHell)

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 6:51:53 AM

GreedyTop

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

If the bottom isn't submissive and the top isn't dominant then topping from the bottom has nothing to do with poor dominance or a badly behaved submission. Some people just play for titillation and there is no D/s involved.

It could also result from a bottom ending up with a dominant or a submissive ending up with a top. Both frustrating and confusing and both could end up topping from the bottom.

It could also be a submissive/bottom mentoring a top/dominant or it could be a dissatisfied sub playing with an unadventurous or over exuberant dominant.

To simply say, 'the sub isn't submissive enough' is ridiculous. There are many reasons why topping from the bottom happens. Some of it is for joint fun and some of its from pure frustration.

Maria said it better than I could have.

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 7:13:16 AM

LaTigresse

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Indeed.

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 7:34:51 AM

DarkSteven

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Topping from the bottom is subjective. Two people are involved a Dom and a sub, and possibly observers. Some could say that it's occurring while others would disagree.

Also, note that some insta-Doms will contact random subs without seeing if they're compatible (or even available) and bark out commands instantly. They will claim TFTB when not instantly obeyed.

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 7:38:51 AM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell

I've heard about it but I don't really understand it at best I figure it would be along the lines of the sub only obeying the dom if the dom uses the word "please" when giving a command (that would be a funny arrangement when you think about it) or the sub some how manipulates the dom by pressing their buttons. That's just a for instance. Also can a sub topping from the bottom really be considered a sub?

I don't know either, presumably it would refer to manipulation of the dom during the scene, but where the line is between communication, feedback, and dynamic ends, and topping from the bottom begins, is probably largely a judgement call.

And presumabley if it does occur, then it constitutes a sort of role reversal, and I guess you'd both be switches till you settle it, lol.

< Message edited by xssve -- 1/28/2012 7:40:41 AM >

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 8:54:02 AM

SpiritedRadiance

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FR-

I dont see topping from the bottom as something that actually exists... Now bottoming from the top, I see regularly (ya see what i just did there yupp putting the issue of lack of control on the party whos lacking control...)

Topping from the bottom cant happen if the Dom is in control, His/Her lack of understanding and control on that situation is the only way a submissive can "top" from the bottom

I hate the term because its usually used in a manipulative way to get a submissive to do something that they have listed as a limit, or something that the trust simply isnt there for. When the sub refuses for their own safety they get told they are topping from the bottom.

And the term is usually (in my experience ive never heard it used by anyone else) from a weak willed dom who doesnt have the power, authority or skill to convince a submissive to submit on their own... So they play on the submissives insecurities of not pleasing well enough, to try to force something they cannot make naturally happen on their own...

Also i see it used a lot on women who are strong smart submissives who dont fall for the emotional manipulation and blackmail. The If you were really a sub you wouldnt have limits, or your topping from the bottom because your saying no to.... Many submissives whove been around the block for more then a day or two understand what this means and dont fall for it...thats when the passive aggressive dumbinants start pulling out the topping from the bottom bs.

Its simple if your someones dom, you either Are in control or you Arent... if you arent its not topping from the bottom, its your failure...

Every Dom I've ever interacted with was in control, In fact most of the Doms i know now who are just friends can easily make it so I follow their guidance. Because they are the ones in control and Im not...

_____________________________

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(in reply to xssve)

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 10:45:39 AM

Clickofheels

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

You know, I've never looked up a textbook definition of it, but I've come to believe that it is manipulation by the submissive of the dominant to lean activities and behaviors more towards what he/she wants than what the dominant desires.

That is what I have been led to believe too, Kaliko. (smiles)

Ms Clickofheels

(in reply to Kaliko)

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 10:51:06 AM

chiaThePet

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Pineapple Upsidedown Cake.

What?

chia* (the pet)

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 11:31:16 AM

ResidentSadist

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How do you explain topping from the bottom to switch?

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I give good thread.

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 11:40:44 AM

chiaThePet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

How do you explain topping from the bottom to switch?

Type 2 Diabetes.

chia* (the pet)

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Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 11:50:29 AM

MasterSlaveLA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKingofHell

What is topping from the bottom?

The INSECURE dominant's PATHETIC EXCUSE for their own FAILURE to dominate a sub/slave.

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 12:01:43 PM

njlauren

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Just my own perspective but it is as others have suggested, at least in part, a bottom/sub in effect directing what the top/dom/domme is doing (and it could be in non play things as well). There are many levels to this, and it has nothing to do with limits or boundaries. Let me try to explain this using examples I can think of that I consider 'topping from the bottom'

-As other posters suggested, manipulating the top into doing something, like "would mistress like to spank me? Would mistress like to get her crop and use it" (pretty obvious, but you get the point)

-Telling a top when they can do something in negotiation, with no intent of doing it, to get them to play with them, then in play safewording out if the top goes to do whatever it was

-In play, getting so lost in subspace not sharing the energy of the session with the top, not interacting with them, or giving them what they need (depends on the top), it can be not making a sound, or showing the top some sort of response. In play with my domme we called it energy flow, circle of energy.

Obviously where this occurs also depends on the dynamic of the people playing, every top/bottom has different dynamics and what one top would consider topping from the bottom would be okay to another, it is analogous to how power is done in a d/s relationship....

Speaking from my own experience, it is one of the biggest differences being playing in a pro space (I am talking generalities here, not specifics). My start in BD/SM was with commercial houses, and because of the nature of them (among other things, the people working there are often not lifestyle), where the bottom is a paying customer in the end, when I started playing 'for real' it was hard, because as a bottom/sub the dynamic was different, was accused of being a 'sponge' and so forth, and it was true, because I had never really let go in doing pro sessions (again, this is not a knock on pro dommes or even houses, there are a number of top dommes I scened with in the pro space who would not allow topping from the bottom). It took me a time to let go and get into the scene where I was doing what I should as a bottom, not only taking from it but giving energy back to the top, too:).

(in reply to chiaThePet)

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 12:20:47 PM

SpiritedRadiance

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My question is... How is it topping from the bottom because the Dom isnt directing where they wish to go?

If i suggest to my Owner that I want something, or i would prefer something..

Him being IN CONTROL its HIS choice of what we do... If he decides to do something my way.. hes STILL in control and im not topping..

HIM not being IN control is again not me topping from the bottom..

I cant direct or control anything unless he allows it...

_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

(in reply to njlauren)

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 12:50:59 PM

njlauren

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

My question is... How is it topping from the bottom because the Dom isnt directing where they wish to go?

If i suggest to my Owner that I want something, or i would prefer something..

Him being IN CONTROL its HIS choice of what we do... If he decides to do something my way.. hes STILL in control and im not topping..

HIM not being IN control is again not me topping from the bottom..

I cant direct or control anything unless he allows it...

If the top gives the bottom the right to determine direction, no it isn't topping from the bottom. In a sense it is about boundaries, it is about a bottom respecting/giving the top what they need in the context agreed upon. It isn't cut and dried. It also is about a bottom 'taking' and not giving back to the top. I suspect this is more with people who play with others casusally rather then those in relationships (just my opinion, YMMV)

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 12:59:50 PM

SpiritedRadiance

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Again I ask, how is a doms failure the submissives fault

In your example "Would mistress like to spank me" Its not topping from the bottom Its the doms job to say No, i would not stop asking, if they dont ... its not the subs fault.

A Doms lacking is often pushed on the submissive for what ever stupid reason they can think of topping from the bottom is only saying the dominants lacking, they are a failure, they have the issues

They have not created a dynamic in which its clear whos in control and whos not... not the submissive...They have not created a clear dynamic in which asking for something is frowned upon, its their fault... they havent made it clear that things are done only their way, that again isnt the subs fault...

_____________________________

"Theres nothing in life like the feeling of cool leather sliding over your skin, the tears that fill your eyes as you realize someone else thinks you deserve it even if you havent reached that conclusion yet"- Forever to remember 11/5/11

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RE: What is topping from the bottom? - 1/28/2012 1:03:02 PM

Awareness

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Topping from the bottom?

A subject you should've brought up in the scat thread.

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