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Settled Science - 1/29/2012 7:46:16 AM   
Kirata


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And now on "Settled Science," the latest climate news!
    Hotter summers 'may kill 5,900 every year', warns first national risk assessment of climate change

    Britain’s first national risk assessment of climate change has warned there will be major increases in flooding, heatwaves and water shortages that could kill thousands of people a year. The Government-funded research called said annual flood damage will cost the UK up to £12 billion by the 2080s if nothing is done to adapt to extreme weather.

    British summers will get hotter while winters will be milder and wetter, according to the £2.8 million report. It warned the hotter summers could result in up to 5,900 extra deaths a year by 2050.... However, authors admit to uncertainties within their computer models
In other climate news...
    Forget global warming - it's Cycle 25 we need to worry about

    The supposed ‘consensus’ on man-made global warming is facing an inconvenient challenge after the release of new temperature data showing the planet has not warmed for the past 15 years. The figures suggest that we could even be heading for a mini ice age to rival the 70-year temperature drop that saw frost fairs held on the Thames in the 17th Century.

    Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.

    Meanwhile, leading climate scientists yesterday told The Mail on Sunday that, after emitting unusually high levels of energy throughout the 20th Century, the sun is now heading towards a ‘grand minimum’ in its output, threatening cold summers, bitter winters and a shortening of the season available for growing food.
Tune in next week for more "Settled Science."

K.

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 7:50:34 AM   
Owner59


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So why was it 50 degrees here yesterday when it`s usually below zero from December through mid February?


Not that you`re a scientist or anything.




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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:07:35 AM   
RacerJim


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Status: offline 		Human caused global warming?
Naturally occuring cyclic global warming, and cooling?

Given that where I'm sitting right was covered by ice almost a mile thick which melted away millions of years before humankind is known to have first existed...

Not that I'm a scientist or anything

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:09:20 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

Human caused global warming?
Naturally occuring cyclic global warming, and cooling?

Given that where I'm sitting right was covered by ice almost a mile thick which melted away millions of years before humankind is known to have first existed...

Not that I'm a scientist or anything


Actually, there have been several ice ages and interglacials since humans emerged on the planet so your statement is incorrect.

I'll agree. You are definitely not a scientist.

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:10:45 AM   
Fellow


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Status: offline 		It is obviously not "settled" yet. I was attending a lecture of a well-known climate modeler 22 years ago, he said exactly the same: it may get cooler or warmer depending how you tweak the constants (that are to a some extent educated guesses). 

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:13:55 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		The Mail is an interesting publication isn't it?

Do any of our Brit friends know what their rep and leanings are?

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:18:42 AM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Well,I would think that any caring person,especially one with kids or grand kids,would want to know and be curious if it was man-made or not.



The republican/corporate plea to pay no attention to whats behind the curtain seems a bit selfish and uncaring.


We are loading the atmosphere with millions of tons of carbon in a few short years, that took hundreds millions of years for nature to take OUT of the atmosphere.


Maybe the "scientists" here could show us a time in our planet`s long history where that much carbon was in the air all at once?

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:23:41 AM   
Sanity


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Assuming that its proven that we are headed into another mini ice age, will leftists begin encouraging the use of fossil fuels (etc) in order to "save the planet"?






< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/29/2012 8:27:10 AM >

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:32:20 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

So why was it 50 degrees here yesterday when it`s usually below zero from December through mid February?

Maybe you are talking about weather, instead of climate?

Firm


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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:34:03 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


So why was it 50 degrees here yesterday when it`s usually below zero from December through mid February?


Not that you`re a scientist or anything.



Well as some of us were constantly reminded last winter about this time when my area was having record low temperatures quite regularly, "weather is not climate." =)

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:35:48 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

So why was it 50 degrees here yesterday when it`s usually below zero from December through mid February?

Not that you`re a scientist or anything.

Two words: La Niña

La Niña has also helped keep the jet stream on a west-to-east path over Canada, preventing cold Arctic air from dipping into the Lower 48 states...

A phenomenon known as the Arctic Oscillation has reinforced that effect, Patzert said. The oscillation is a pattern of pressure that wraps itself around the North Pole. When the pressure is low, as it has been for most of this winter, the oscillation captures the cool air that normally breaks out of the Arctic and moves into Canada.

In other news: Temperatures fall to 50 below in Fairbanks

The temperature at Fairbanks International Airport hit 50 below zero Saturday morning for the first time since 2006, while a low of 57 below was reported in North Pole. Fort Yukon and Huslia were the coldest Interior communities at 63 below zero, while two others beat their own records. Tanana hit 61 below zero Saturday morning, breaking its previous record low of 58 below, set in 1919, and Bettles, at 60 below, broke its previous record of 56 below, which was set in 1989.

Not to say that everybody can read or anything...

K.

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:50:52 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


So why was it 50 degrees here yesterday when it`s usually below zero from December through mid February?


Not that you`re a scientist or anything.



Well as some of us were constantly reminded last winter about this time when my area was having record low temperatures quite regularly, "weather is not climate." =)


"weather is not climate."

LOL! It`s certainly part of it and inseparable. Holy shit that`s fuck`n funny!

Still I see you obfuscate rather than explain.

The ground in the north east used to freeze up by December through February.For the last 15 years or so,it hasn`t gotten cold enough,long enough to make the ground freeze.

And I hear that the permafrost regions are losing thousands of acres a year.Not so permanent I guess.

If the average earth temp isn`t going up(it is BTW)please explain in term folks can believe as reasonable how this ISN`T climate change/global warming?


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/29/2012 8:52:03 AM >

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 8:56:04 AM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		What your chart shows is average weather temperatures, what climate scientists look at is global average earth temperatures with spans at least 30 years in length.

This chart is basic weather patterns, what climate scientists are talking about is the earths average temperature has risen over 2 degrees in the last 50 years, and it is increasing.

The biggest problem with "global warming" is the dam name.  Because you get the oil company paid schools and scientists who say warming????  but its colder then it ever has been in Texas, and the blind follow


http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/1520-0442%281997%29010%3C0245%3AOMOGWB%3E2.0.CO%3B2

Because what would the AMS know about climate change, I mean it's only what they do
They have data on just about anything with climate change you want to know, and everything about weather too


< Message edited by housesub4you -- 1/29/2012 8:57:25 AM >

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:06:04 AM   
Sanity


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Status: offline 		You didnt answer the question

IF it is proven that we are headed into another mini ice age, will leftists then encourage the use of fossil fuels?

Let me expand on that a little bit

Even despite some possible collateral damage to the environment, such as a few wild areas being carefully drilled, maybe a few pipelines being built etc

Because leftists are very willing to accept collateral damage on the other end of things, such as higher fuel and energy prices forcing the poor (women children and the elderly being hardest hit) to do without needed heat or air conditioning, and having to pay more for anything that has to be shipped mined refrigerated or grown

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

What your chart shows is average weather temperatures, what climate scientists look at is global average earth temperatures with spans at least 30 years in length.

This chart is basic weather patterns, what climate scientists are talking about is the earths average temperature has risen over 2 degrees in the last 50 years, and it is increasing.

The biggest problem with "global warming" is the dam name.  Because you get the oil company paid schools and scientists who say warming????  but its colder then it ever has been in Texas, and the blind follow


http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/1520-0442%281997%29010%3C0245%3AOMOGWB%3E2.0.CO%3B2

Because what would the AMS know about climate change, I mean it's only what they do
They have data on just about anything with climate change you want to know, and everything about weather too



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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:13:00 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		The stupidity of the notion that you have to be leftist to worry about possible globalwarming is staggering beyond belief. Whatever else, mankind is having a drastic effect on nature and not only on this issue.

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:16:10 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


So why was it 50 degrees here yesterday when it`s usually below zero from December through mid February?


Not that you`re a scientist or anything.



Well as some of us were constantly reminded last winter about this time when my area was having record low temperatures quite regularly, "weather is not climate." =)


"weather is not climate."

LOL! It`s certainly part of it and inseparable. Holy shit that`s fuck`n funny!

Still I see you obfuscate rather than explain.

The ground in the north east used to freeze up by December through February.For the last 15 years or so,it hasn`t gotten cold enough,long enough to make the ground freeze.

And I hear that the permafrost regions are losing thousands of acres a year.Not so permanent I guess.

If the average earth temp isn`t going up(it is BTW)please explain in term folks can believe as reasonable how this ISN`T climate change/global warming?


Actually, raikun and I think Firm also mentioned it are correct. Weather is a short-term easily observable phenomenon.

Abnormally warm Weather in the southeast US and abnormally cold Weather that is being experienced in the interior of Alaska are both just that.

Weather. the fac t that these things are local and atypical only confirms that.

Climate is a longer term phenomenon. Climatological observations start at a couple of decades and extend for millenia. Due to the time span involved, climate is very difficult to observe without the collection of thousands to millions of data points which make up the whole picture.

Think of weather as a sentence. Climate is the Encyclopedia Brittanica. One is easy to understand and observe by an individual. the other is amazingly complex.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/29/2012 9:17:05 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:20:49 AM   
xssve


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Status: offline 		Well most of the dispute arises from the interpretation of "global warming" as a neo-Aristotillian mechanistic prediction, when in fact, global weather is a highly complex system of cause, effect, and feedback loops, for which there is no exhaustive model - higher temps result in higher rates of evaporation, the resulting changes in cloud cover in turn trigger a number of effects that result in other phenomena, including further affect evaporation rates themselves, etc., etc.

Not to mention sunspot activity, etc., which are also difficult to model.

What is settled science is that atmospheric CO2 levels do indeed affect weather patterns, any fucking way you slice it.

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:21:22 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
And now on "Settled Science," the latest climate news!

The evolution algorithm is implacable. We will either evolve to be fatter, in order to better float, or we will evolve to be taller, in order that our noses will not be submerged, or we will evolve gills, in order to get a measly bit of oxygen from the water.

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:24:36 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The Mail is an interesting publication isn't it?

Do any of our Brit friends know what their rep and leanings are?


Hillwill,

The Mail is a right leaning newspaper, normally with over hyped stories regards immigration etc.

The report they mention was the result of a three year study done by computer modelling. The authors agree is isnt perfect but at present it is the best we have got. Below is a BBC link re the same story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16730834

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RE: Settled Science - 1/29/2012 9:26:15 AM   
Sanity


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One has to be staggeringly stupid to march in lockstep with the leftists on this issue, actually

And of nature, leftists act as though it is some form of holy of holies deity, though most leftists at the same time claim to be nonreligious

Nature as we know it is finite, regardless of our actions.

So let us enjoy and use nature in the short time that we are here, the best that we are able

And let the leftists go back to living in the cold dark caves where they will be happiest

And under the troll bridges as well

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The stupidity of the notion that you have to be leftist to worry about possible globalwarming is staggering beyond belief. Whatever else, mankind is having a drastic effect on nature and not only on this issue.


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