RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 10:36:44 AM)

quote:

but couldn't we also agree that most if not all errors are the result of some unforseen consequences on the behalf on the decision-maker(s), and when rightly pointed out with the added benefit of the knowledge of others, the offender should be able to retreat with a certain amount of gained wisdom.


In this case, no. Its the platform the woman ran on when she ran for Governor. They knew what she was about when she was hired for that position. To say it was an unforseen consequence would be akin to shoving their head in the sand and drawing a name from the hat.

Coupled with the fact that this is a foundation designed for breast cancer, how could they possibly not have known that cutting funds would cut the chances of early first detection?

Either way, the decisions were made with the consequences well known.



DanaYielding -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 11:14:46 AM)

quote:

the decisions were made with the consequences well known.


That's actually an assumption. Circumstantial evidence is all around it but it IS an assumption.
As such do you also say that that the consequence of outcry over the choice to cut funding was also known?



tazzygirl -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 11:29:34 AM)

No, Handel ran on an anti abortion platform. That is widely known and was publicized during her 2010 race for the Governor. There is no assumption.

My opponents have recently recycled old attacks against me concerning Fulton County’s funding of some programs through Planned Parenthood. They are doing so without providing any context and continue to omit several key and important facts. First, let me be clear, since I am pro-life, I do not support the mission of Planned Parenthood. During my time as Chairman of Fulton County, there were federal and state pass-through grants that were awarded to Planned Parenthood for breast and cervical cancer screening, as well as a “Healthy Babies Initiative.” The grant was authorized, regulated, administered and distributed through the State of Georgia. Because of the criteria, regulations and parameters of the grant, Planned Parenthood was the only eligible vendor approved to meet the state criteria. Additionally, none of the services in any way involved abortions or abortion-related services. In fact, state and federal law prohibits the use of taxpayer funds for abortions or abortion related services and I strongly support those laws. Since grants like these are from the state I’ll eliminate them as your next Governor.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100921093610/http:/blog.karenhandel.com/2010/07/karen-handel-on-life-and-planned-parenthood/

After admitting she knew they were not used for abortions, she still stated she would end the funding. There is no assumption to be found here. She is quote plainly spelling it out.



DanaYielding -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 11:41:27 AM)

quote:

No, Handel ran on an anti abortion platform. That is widely known and was publicized during her 2010 race for the Governor. There is no assumption.


Huh? I thought we were talking about the consequences of the decision being well known.

The fact ...that Handel ran on an anti abortion platform does not make the consequences of the decision to cut funding "well known." Perhaps for YOU the consequences of such a decision are well known ... perhaps for them(her) it was not. Therefore, unless you have read otherwise (if so link please), or been spoken to directly by the decision makers, (and they admitted such to you) you are assuming. They(she) might just be stupid.



tazzygirl -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 11:48:45 AM)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/05/karen-handel-susan-g-komen-decision-defund-planned-parenthood_n_1255948.html



DanaYielding -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 12:00:22 PM)

"But a Komen insider told HuffPost on Sunday that Karen Handel, Komen's staunchly anti-abortion vice president for public policy, was the main force behind the decision to defund Planned Parenthood and the attempt to make that decision look nonpolitical.

"Karen Handel was the prime instigator of this effort, and she herself personally came up with investigation criteria," the source, who requested anonymity for professional reasons, told HuffPost. "She said, 'If we just say it's about investigations, we can defund Planned Parenthood and no one can blame us for being political.'"

Emails between Komen leadership on the day the Planned Parenthood decision was announced, which were reviewed by HuffPost under the condition they not be published, confirm the source's description of Handel's sole "authority" in crafting and implementing the Planned Parenthood policy.

Handel's strategy to cut off Planned Parenthood involved drafting new guidelines that would prevent Komen from funding any organization that was under investigation by local, state or federal authorities. Since Planned Parenthood is currently the target of a congressional inquiry prompted by House Republicans into the way it uses government funds, the family planning provider would have been immediately disqualified from receiving new Komen grants.

After the initial uproar when news of the decision broke, the story that Komen told the public was that the cut-off was unrelated to a political agenda against Planned Parenthood."


Strong evidence but clearly, since the "insider" remains anonymous and the emails remain unpublished, that is hearsay.
All of this still does not prove that all the consequences of the decision to cut funding were "well known."
What it does prove is that they probably SHOULD have known, or at least spent more thought on the matter.
Again I reiterate, all the consequences of the decision to cut funding to planned parenthood were not "well known." Surely had they seen the consequence of outcry beforehand, they would not have made the decision in the first place, unless it is your presumption that they did see that consequence as well, and chose to make the decision anyway ... knowing it would cause an uproar and knowing that they(she) would be crucified for it.



tazzygirl -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 12:11:05 PM)

Cut funding to PP for breat cancer screenings... what do you think would happen? There is no way someone sitting on that board could possibly not understand the ramifications of their actions. No matter how much leeway you want to give them, their actions speak for themselves. Cutting funding for screening means less screening. Meaning breast cancer will get missed. Placing more lives at risk.

I realize you want to give them a pass. And that is commendable, I suppose. But, based upon facts in evidence, dont expect many others to do so. We simply are not buying it. Placing abortion, which they admit the money was not going towards, above cancer is what they did. They allowed politics to interfere with their mission statement. That was driven by one person, Handel.

quote:

But the criteria did gain the support of Komen's top executives and board. And in an interview with HuffPost, board member John D. Rafaelli, a Democratic lobbyist and a supporter of Planned Parenthood's mission, took responsibility for the changes. As the only lobbyist on the board, he said, he should have anticipated the political fallout.

"Honestly, I didn't think it through well enough," Rafaelli said. "We don't want to be pro-choice or pro-life; we want to be pro-cure. We screwed up, I'm saying it. We failed to keep abortion out of this, and we owe the people in the middle who only care about breast cancer and who have raised money for us an apology."


Politics over cancer.

And that is what people are screaming about.



DanaYielding -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 12:26:34 PM)

quote:

what do you think would happen?


I've tried to explain, it's not about what you, OR I, think what might have happened. It is about what THEY thought would happen, or not happen.

"...But, based upon facts in evidence, dont expect many others to do so."

Which was my point all along, that today no one is willing to give anyone a pass for a mistake, including one that was corrected without dire consequences to the people whom this funding is provided for.

John D. Rafaelli said "We don't want to be pro-choice or pro-life; we want to be pro-cure. We screwed up, I'm saying it. We failed to keep abortion out of this, and we owe the people in the middle who only care about breast cancer and who have raised money for us an apology."

Not only is the apology issued, the decision was also reversed.



tweakabelle -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 12:27:46 PM)

quote:

All of this still does not prove that all the consequences of the decision to cut funding were "well known."
What it does prove is that they probably SHOULD have known, or at least spent more thought on the matter.
Again I reiterate, all the consequences of the decision to cut funding to planned parenthood were not "well known." Surely had they seen the consequence of outcry beforehand, they would not have made the decision in the first place, unless it is your presumption that they did see that consequence as well, and chose to make the decision anyway ... knowing it would cause an uproar and knowing that they(she) would be crucified for it.


Puh-leeeaasssseeee. Funding for PP has been a political issue in the US for some time now. Even at my distance, and I'm well over an ocean away from the action, I know that this is linked intricately with the abortion debate. And just about the entire world knows how contentious that debate is in the US. To pretend that a woman with Handel's political and organisational skills and accomplishments wouldn't be aware of the consequences of this decision strikes me as a tad ingenuous.

The Huff Post piece implies that the goal of Handel's manouvres inside the organisation was to set up a bureaucratic mechanism to de-fund PP. Given the fanaticism with which pro-lifers operate in the US, I doubt whether the consequences would have mattered if they were considered. Pro-lifers are fond of presenting themselves as being on a mission from God, and for them, consequences are God's department. Which precisely why they couldn't care less about the quality of life for all the unwanted children they insist must be carried to term.

ETA: I might add the Huff states that the bureaucratic mechanism to de-fund PP was designed in such a way that "we can defund Planned Parenthood and no one can blame us for being political.". To me, that strongly suggests they were very aware of the potential fall out and wished to remove themselves from the firing line.



tazzygirl -> RE: Petition: Susan G. Komen for the Cure: Put Women's Lives Before Politics (2/9/2012 12:29:34 PM)

Forgetting the past is a sure fire way of repeating it.

Im not willing to forget so easily when lives were put at risk. Sorry, I do not agree with your stance. But you are entitled to it.



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