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RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/1/2006 9:19:47 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Wait a minute here.  Crappy and Celeste, both of you blamed the poor boy (OP) for the first Dom dropping out?  Come on, don't you think there is more than a slight possibility that the first Dom was NEVER gonna meet him?  How often have we all heard (or experienced) that story -- the hot and heavy onliner who disappears when RT comes close?

I am not fond of him "stacking" Doms in this neighboring city, but BOTH of you jumped to conclusions and jumped down his throat.  You have no evidence that the first Dom failed to pursue him because of his inquiry about lining up a "backup".  I think blaming him for the fizzle on the first meeting is simply unfair, and maybe you could rethink your rather harsh advice?

Just a thought.

E.

(edited to correct "joyinslavery's" gender.  My bad...I assumed when I shoulda read first.)

< Message edited by Emperor1956 -- 6/1/2006 9:22:53 PM >

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/1/2006 9:36:33 PM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		It would make perfect sense if you were looking for a job. In looking for a relationship, I think it has the potential to hurt someone's feelings to ask such a thing. That's your call though. It didn't seem to work out very well for you in this instance, but maybe the dominant will write back to you eventually. If it's a femdom with whom you are dealing, don't count on it. Male and female dominants do think quite differently on such matters. Males might be more forgiving of the breech in etiquette than a female.

YMMV but my experience as a female Top, I'd shut the door on any 'interview' and not respond further to you.

Celeste


This is my first post so I don't know how to properly cut and paste previous comments in a "box" (DOH)...

Thanks Celeste...I guess that's what I'm trying to understand...WHY is it a breach of etiquette????  Let's take the word 'nterview' out of it (even though in reality, that's what it is)... Let's use a different word...how about 'meeting'?   That's what this is...a meeting and an opportunity for BOTH parties to have a look at each other, talk to each other, feel each other out and see if it works...for BOTH the Dom/Domme AND the sub...Do I relinquish the right to be selective because I'm a sub???   WHY is it wrong when travelling to a city and honestly looking for ONE Dom/Domme to ultimately serve to 'meet' with more than one Dom/Domme?  Aren't Doms/Dommes often 'meeting' with potential subs (plural)?  When meeting for the first time and going through that selection process, does a Dom/Domme get to line up prospective subs while the sub is expected to 'meet' only one Dom/Domme and base their long-term decision on that??   I'm not trying to be a wiseass...I'm honestly asking the question...are the rules different for each?   If indeed my action was a "breach of etiquette", WHY?  I didn't lie...What is wrong about wanting to be sure and being upfront?  HELP!!!  LOL  

(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/1/2006 10:17:21 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Wait a minute here.  Crappy and Celeste, both of you blamed the poor boy (OP) for the first Dom dropping out?  Come on, don't you think there is more than a slight possibility that the first Dom was NEVER gonna meet him?  How often have we all heard (or experienced) that story -- the hot and heavy onliner who disappears when RT comes close?

I am not fond of him "stacking" Doms in this neighboring city, but BOTH of you jumped to conclusions and jumped down his throat.  You have no evidence that the first Dom failed to pursue him because of his inquiry about lining up a "backup".  I think blaming him for the fizzle on the first meeting is simply unfair, and maybe you could rethink your rather harsh advice?

Just a thought.

E.



I don't think expressing my opinion is the equivalent of jumping down his throat. And the only 'advice' I gave him was to reflect on how he treats people. Other than that, I took the situation and as an unbiased third party, told him how "I" would react as a female top AND that I think males and females would react differently to the situation. I have no motivations here. I don't know the guy, nor the dom.. I only know how I would feel if I had spent time enough with someone for them to want to come out and meet me .. then they tell me.. 'by the way'.. just in case this doesn't work, do you mind if I set up another date? To me.. that's insulting and seems as if I'm nothing more than a fleshy flogger of no real value to the person who is going to travel but needs a back up in case I'm not up to their standards. The guy said in his opening post that he thinks the dominant in question may be too intense for him, but he's chosing to go anyway.. but wants a back up in place just in case he's right about the first dominant.

I am not going to rethink my advice because it's sound and I don't think it's harsh at all. How is questioning your own motives a bad thing?

FWIW - assuming the dominant dropped out because he was never going to meet the OP is still assuming.. why do 'you' automatically jump to that conclusion when it wasn't until the question was asked about a back-up that the communication stopped? I drew a reasonable conclusion based on the given situation as the OP explained it.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/1/2006 10:36:41 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Thanks Celeste...I guess that's what I'm trying to understand...WHY is it a breach of etiquette????  Let's take the word 'nterview' out of it (even though in reality, that's what it is)... Let's use a different word...how about 'meeting'?   That's what this is...a meeting and an opportunity for BOTH parties to have a look at each other, talk to each other, feel each other out and see if it works...for BOTH the Dom/Domme AND the sub...Do I relinquish the right to be selective because I'm a sub???   WHY is it wrong when travelling to a city and honestly looking for ONE Dom/Domme to ultimately serve to 'meet' with more than one Dom/Domme?  Aren't Doms/Dommes often 'meeting' with potential subs (plural)?  When meeting for the first time and going through that selection process, does a Dom/Domme get to line up prospective subs while the sub is expected to 'meet' only one Dom/Domme and base their long-term decision on that??   I'm not trying to be a wiseass...I'm honestly asking the question...are the rules different for each?   If indeed my action was a "breach of etiquette", WHY?  I didn't lie...What is wrong about wanting to be sure and being upfront?  HELP!!!  LOL  


Like I said, joy.. men and women think differently from one another. Let me put this into a 'nilla' dating context. A guy makes a date with a couple of different girls for the same night. Dollars to donuts, if he tells both girls about the other, they're not going to go out with him because he's going to be viewed as a player.. and people don't, generally, like to be played. The guy is automatically putting time constrictions on the first meeting.. and/or if the first meeting is going great, the guy won't think twice about calling girl two and cancelling the date leaving her dateless and alone for Friday night. Girl two would have to put herself into a situation where she can get dumped before she even gets out of the gate. Ask yourself.. how likely is it that girl two is going to allow this to happen with a relative stranger.. because, if we keep to the parameters of your own situation.. none of these people ever met each other before.

In effect, what you are telling dominant one is this: We've gotten along well in emails (possibly even phone calls.. you didn't specifiy) .. well enough that I want to trouble myself to come out and meet you so there is 'something' there with which we can work ... but, you may be too much for me.. and just in case you are, I'd like your permission to set up meetings with someone else as well.. someone who I have not yet found, someone with whom I've had no contact, some mysterious second dominant because.. I don't want to waste my time.
 
Now, in order to find dominant number two.. what do you have to do? You have to spend 'less' of your available time speaking to dominant number one because now you have to divide your attention between number one and a potential number two. How much time? Well, that's going to depend on how lucky you are in your search for number two. As soon as you tell number two, there's already a number one, you have cut your chances a great deal. I seriously doubt most dominants are going to want to play second fiddle.. or play back up in this case and, if you're up front, I believe most will tell you.. contact me AFTER you decide what you want.. if they don't tell you to bugger off immediately.

As to your question about dominants setting up multiple meetings with submissives.. I've never met one yet who was serious about wanting to collar someone who's done such a thing. Orientation means nothing to me in this regard and I'd say the same thing to someone else regardless of their gender and/or orientation.. but then, I'm a bisexual switch so gender and orientation don't matter much to me.

I will say this. As a switch, I would not set up a meeting with a potential bottom AND with a potential top for the sake of convenience even though they are two different animals and one relationship would not effect the other.  Everyone deserves to be viewed on their own merits and be given the amount of time necessary to do that.. I don't look for back-ups when I am seeking someone. I think people are worth a bit more of my time and energy than that.

A woman's POV - YMMV

Celeste





< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 6/1/2006 10:38:59 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/1/2006 10:47:11 PM   
DixieBellle


Posts: 20
Joined: 5/26/2006
From: middle TN
Status: offline 		very well stated celeste  I wish you the best of luck with your potential new Dom/Domme's and please stay safe, you seem to have a great head on your shoulders. Please keep us posted.
 
Miss Dixie

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/1/2006 11:09:09 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		To the opening post... yes I think it is rude and I would not do it. Did you ever consider going to this city and joining in on a munch or a club (if there are clubs in this city). In this case you could meet other doms face to face, interact, and then maybe get to know them... instead of doing this odd "interview" thing in which you have one date set up if the other one fails.

If a dom told me that he was going to meet another submissive right after he met with me, well lets just say I would probably not see him again. It just lacks any sort of human tenderness in my estimation. It is none of the dom's business what you do, you didnt owe him an explanation of what you were doing outside of his presense, and some things are better not discussed. I do not ask if a dom I havent met before dates other submissives, I assume he will be unless we have specifically discussed that we have some sort of understanding between us. It is not lying, it is just not giving TMI

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/1/2006 11:48:22 PM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		I hope it's ok to respond to 2 posts at the same time...I'm still new and stupid LOL...

To Celeste and juliaoceania...first of all, Thank You VERY much for your responses to my post...they (and the others) are really helping me sort through this thing....I think one of the mistakes I made early in the post was using the word "backup".  Yes, that does sound ugly...I think I could/should have phrased that differently because honestly, that's not really accurate...afterall, the person I choose (and also, more importantly, chooses me) will be the ONE person I will be with.  I don't think of this as a shopping exercise but I DO view it as meeting people, getting to know them and them getting to know me, of course in the limited amount of time we have.  I think the idea of a attending a munch is a GREAT idea but ultimately (and respectfully of course), what's the difference?  You're meeting people, talking to people, you're making decisions, they're making decisions, you come to an agreement...what's the difference in doing that in a crowded room with 20 people or a small room just one-on-one?  I mean, say I attend a munch and talk to 10 different people...at the end of it, I'll be interested in some and not others and some of those will be interested in me and some won't be but if I can make a connection with just ONE, even after I've "worked" the room all night talking to 10 different people, is it RUDE that I decided on one particular Dom/Domme (assuming of course they want me LOL)?  I mean, I've talked to just about every Dom/Domme in the room and (hopefully...hehe) next week I'm showing up wearing a collar and being lead on a leash by just ONE of them.  What's the difference???  Some will reject me and some won't...some I will reject and some I won't...but ultimately, aren't we arriving at the same destination, regardless of how we got there??  How is meeting 10 Doms/Dommes at a munch versus meeting 10 Doms/Dommes one-on-one (NO play of course) different IF the ultimate goal (finding one Dom/Domme to serve) is the same??  Especially if I'm upfront and tell them what I'm doing?  I'm probably being too clinical and too "male" with this thing but I'm really struggling with it.  I mean, I keep hearing "rude" and bad "etiquette" and I'm just really wondering is it really that bad??   Don't get me wrong...I WANT to hear what you and others have to say and I really VALUE what you're telling me so please don't think I'm challenging your opinions...it's helping me...but I guess I'm really having a hard time with this one.  URGH!!!   LOL

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/2/2006 12:06:50 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Joy, the difference is, the dominants you meet at a munch haven't invested any time in you. The dominant you've been speaking to via email has invested time in you.. s/he thought you had enough of a connection to schedule a meeting to see if the chemistry online was there in person.. and by sending the email you did.. you were telling him/her that, yes.. there's a connection.. but I'm not interested enough in that connection to come out and see 'you'.. I need to make sure there's going to be something in it for 'me' and make it worth my while just in case you aren't.

See the difference?

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/2/2006 12:23:01 AM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		yeah, I do...I know exactly what you mean...but you know what (now this IS going to sound like "All About Me"  LOL)  I invested time too...in fact...I'm the one that wrote the 2 pager introductory email, included pics, followed-up, etc.   Yeah, I received a handful of emails but sent out quite a few too...what if we met at a munch and talked for 20-30 minutes?   It's still investing time...seems like you're going to have to do that regardless...but truly Celeste, I take your point and understand totally where you're coming from...I'm sure my lost Dominants feel the same way.   Well, I'll chalk this one up as a hard lesson...live and learn.   Thanks so much for hanging in there with me!!!    :) 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/2/2006 12:28:44 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I do wish you best of luck, joyinslavery and hope you find what you seek. Bottom line.. trust your gut, use your head and follow your heart in all things and you'll be ok. When all three of those are working for you, you've got potential for something good. If any one of them raise a red flag, heed it and do some additional research.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/2/2006 12:32:30 AM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		I thinks that's the best advice of all!  Best of luck to you too!  Maybe I'll see you in the posts again sometime soon!   

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/2/2006 6:08:24 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think if you happen to have two people that you want to meet in the same place, it's more than ok to set up a date with one on one night, and a date with the other on the other night.

However, to make a commitment for a long distance trip to spend time with them and THEN actively try and seek someone to take time away does certainly seem a bit weird and I wouldn't be surprised if it put off the feelings of the original commitment.

If you want to go just to casually meet people, it's great to be up front about it beforehand.  I'm sorry you figured out that you wanted a back-up only AFTER you made plans with the first couple.  I know if I were willing enough to go spend all that time long distance with someone in hopes of starting a serious relationship, I wouldn't want my time or energy divided. 

In LDRs especially, the process of that first meeting is pretty indicative of how the rest of the relationship with go.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/2/2006 6:55:49 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

Yes Ma'am, I agree.  I do wonder though how often, in a situation like this, the sub simply lies or keeps their true intentions to himself or herself(?)...decides NOT to tell the truth.  I thought I would be honest about it and give my reasons why.  Afterall, it IS an interview isn't it?  I did ASK for permission.  The answer could just as easily been no with or without reasons why.   I do sometimes wonder why, in cases of initial interviews, assuming full disclosure, the sub seems to be operating on a totally different set of  rules than a Dom/Domme.   If I want to relocate to Syndy, Australia, what sense does it make to travel there 3 times to interview with 3 different Doms/Dommes??  Wouldn't it make more sense to make 1 trip and 3 interviews??  It's just a different scale, that's the only difference.  Does a sub even have a right to "interview" a Dom/Domme??


Sorry, but I tend to find this tacky.  Either there was a connection with them or there was not.  This isn't a job interview, after all.  What if the Dom/Domme was coming to see you instead...yet told you, "By the way, I am going to look at other subs while I am in town also, to see who I like best?"  Maybe I've just never been in your shoes so I have trouble relating.  With my Master there was a connection right away.and when I finally did meet him there was no question that I wanted to be his.  Anyway, just because you are honest about doing something doesn't mean the something you are doing is the right thing to do.  I can understand why the Dom stopped contacting you.  He obviously felt it wasn't worth putting effort into someone who did not feel a connection. A Dom/Domme wants to know that he/she is your focus and that he/she has your full attention.  My guess is a Dom/Domme would be impressed by the efforts made by a sub to come all that way to see him/her (how long is the drive anyway?), and less impressed if the trip was turned into a multiple interview session with several, to keep it convenient for the sub.  My two cents.

(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/2/2006 6:59:36 AM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks LuckyAlbatross AND ownedgirlie!!  I really appreaciate your input.  Thank You!!!  

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Masterly Advice Needed - 6/2/2006 8:53:38 AM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		OK...BIG update here...I messaged Dom/Domme #1 last night apologizing for requesting to speak with anyone else and acknowledging that it was rude to do so given the offer of hospitality to come up and meet.  This morning, I received a message from Dom/Domme #1 (I hate using a number but does make it easier) saying, essentially it is fine for me to meet with another Dom/Domme if that's what I would like to do AND giving me additional contact information.   I am VERY relieved and now I feel even BETTER about meeting Them!  To me, it says They are self-confident and totally comfortable with who They are and it also makes me feel like They are totally for real but I've definitely learned a lesson here...I really want to thank all that posted on my little thread...it really helped me work out what I did...my motivations, and how my actions might affect others...The big lesson I'm going to take away from this is to be completely respectful of someones time and feelings.  I'll remember that when a Dom/Domme invests valuable time in talking with me, I owe them my full attention as well as a clear statement of my intentions WAY up front, regardless of what they are, not after we've gotten so far as to make arrangements to actually meet.   You're right LuckyAlbatross...to do so AFTER we talked about meeting IS inconsiderate and, well...rude.  I'm going to chalk up my stupidity to newness and being in this situation for the first time...but will definitely learn from it. 

Thanks again to all who posted!  I really appreciate your help and advice!!   

(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 35
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