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The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 6:54:39 PM   
BootyBoy


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline 		Clearly porno movies/clips/websites have advertised and introduced WIIWD to the world. In some ways it seems to have made D/s more mainstream and less of a sexual insanity in the vanilla world. But I've also talked to people who were in the scene long before porn ever began mainstreaming BDSM onto Beta tapes, and they almost all feel that things have been permanently altered in the lifestyle as a result of the porno clip doorway being swung opened.

So my question is, does porn do more good for D/s, or more harm overall?
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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 6:59:56 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		"Harm" is a rather aggressive term. I think porn has done a tremendous amount to *mislead*, and that has made things a lot more difficult for those of us who actually do BDSM in real time.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 7:19:43 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

"Harm" is a rather aggressive term. I think porn has done a tremendous amount to *mislead*, and that has made things a lot more difficult for those of us who actually do BDSM in real time.


God, hasn't it just.

To the OP:  Good idea for a thread!  Hell, though, am I going to have to collect my thoughts on it before responding properly.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 7:21:29 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Me, too. Too much to type on a phone.

You're up awfully late, Darling, insomnia? Can't be the allure of this place...

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 7:29:34 PM   
BootyBoy


Posts: 108
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quote:

"Harm" is a rather aggressive term."


Yes, you're right, I was using short-hand terminology

I should say, do the benefits outweigh the detriments.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 7:34:15 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		In my opinion, hell no.

What is the purpose of porn? Bringing sexual fantasies to life, right? It's not there for education. If there has been good or harm caused, it hasn't been a deliberate act, only a side effect.

Does any man expect that his sex life will ever resemble a "traditional" porno? I'm thinking he doesn't. Why then do so many men watch a bdsm clip and figure "that's the life for me!"?

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 7:34:44 PM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
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From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BootyBoy
I've also talked to people who were in the scene long before porn ever began mainstreaming BDSM onto Beta tapes, and they almost all feel that things have been permanently altered in the lifestyle as a result of the porno clip doorway being swung opened.

On the other hand they might just be pissed off with the transition from Super 8 to videotape...

People could probably make the same argument about vanilla sex as represented in porn. Sure a lot of porn doesn't represent BDSM particularly well but people who are enthusiasts are making it too with fairly decent results. The people who object should consider making their own porn, although it sounds like they should get some technical assistance what with all the confusing buttons and flashing lights... [kidding]


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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 8:25:05 PM   
BootyBoy


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
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quote:

"Does any man expect that his sex life will ever resemble a "traditional" porno?"


Um... well, actually yes. Too many do (both in the vanilla world and evidenced by many postings on this very forum.

quote:

"On the other hand they might just be pissed off with the transition from Super 8 to videotape..."


As well they should!!!!!

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 8:30:39 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		So...men are just really really stupid?

Much is explained!!



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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 9:30:44 PM   
Kracker


Posts: 4
Joined: 12/18/2011
Status: offline 		For what it's worth, my wife and I are new to this type of play, and have used D/s porn clips as a communication tool. We will each do research on specific topics, usually decided by the Dom(me). We then discuss what we did or didn't like about a particular clip and use that communication to build a scene. This technique, along with forums like this, has really helped us going forward. We see porn as a resource to be used for coming up with ideas for play and helping to identify areas we either didn't know we would want to explore or didn't know how. For us, it has been a huge plus.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 9:38:24 PM   
BootyBoy


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
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quote:

"So...men are just really really stupid?'


Haha... I assume that question is rhetorical :-) but "stupid" is such an aggressive term! I'd say that "clueless" applies just as well.

quote:

"For what it's worth, my wife and I are new to this type of play, and have used D/s porn clips as a communication tool."


That makes sense. I certainly think there are BOTH benefits and hinderances. I just wonder how the net effect is perceived overall.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/5/2012 11:10:20 PM   
hangemhigh1953


Posts: 245
Joined: 7/8/2011
Status: offline 		I think it definitely accounts for all the fantasy wankers.

I personally was born into the age of internet porn and will admit it's how I was introduced to BDSM. But as a reasonably intelligent person (an understatement if I do say so meself) I had the sense to research how things work in the real world. It was not hard really, all you have to do is lurk the forums and go to the dating side and look for platonic friends to talk to.

Honestly I'm glad the porn was there, otherwise I would not have been exposed to this wonderful lifestyle, wasting away in the vanilla world which, to be perfectly honest, always seemed awkward and forced to me.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/6/2012 4:31:04 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I'm sure you know I wwas teasing, BB!

I wish there was GOOD bdsm porn out there. Maybe there is...what I've seen just isn't very exciting. Iwas about to say "realistic", but hey! Pr0n, right? How many times can a person watch Fashionistas?

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/6/2012 6:13:11 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
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Status: offline 		I honestly don't think it does one or the other in any major way. Yes, porn has made some people aware of things they otherwise wouldn't know (positive) Yes, it has deluded some into believing things they shouldn't (negative) But if you look at the big picture it really isn't any different than any other Hollywood movie. I don't think most men really believe they are gladiators when they run around screaming "This is Sparta" anymore than I believe most women think they are going to find their version of "Big" when they watch Sex and the city. Yes, technology has permanently altered the way in which we view things, but there is a level of personal responsibility that a lot of people skip over in the hopes of laying blame on anyone other than themselves. There are also many that bemoan things like this in a hope of being able to continue to practice a form of exclusion. A way of being different and special when we really aren't all that different, or special, compared to everyone else.


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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/6/2012 7:06:12 AM   
BootyBoy


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, I got your sarcasm, LadyHibiscus. Just thought I'd tease you back!

I hear you on the exclusion point MissImmortalPain. And yes, some of what I heard was nostalgia for the old days when Kinksters had to buy their own rawhide and take leather work classes in order to make their own floggers, or buy certain wares from the horse and buggy trade. There is always a loss of exclusivity when you get mainstreamed.

But some of the complaints I've heard were not nostalgic but more a rejection of the "commercialization" of kink. I'm not sure that I go far enough back to know any time when it was not commercialized, so I can't make a proper judgement.

However I think that overall, the line between fantasy and reality does get blurred a lot and there is now so much S&M fantasy out there that it definitely has more of an effect today than it did, 25 years ago.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/6/2012 8:14:28 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		I checked your profile and you and I are almost in the same age group. So I am going to try and say this a different way. Think in terms of music. Did music videos really kill music? Did the Ramones really kill punk? Did Guns and roses really kill metal? Does a band sell out just because they finally have fans that admit to being fans? The commercialization you are talking about is the same thing. People want to fight the idea that they are common. That they are just like everyone else. We all do it on some level. As kids we try hard to fit in but as adults we want to believe we are individual.

As for the line being blurred...well again. Technology has changed the world in a few ways. One of them is how quickly we can find information when we want it. Yes, it confuses some people. But again personal responsablity comes into play. If it makes you feel any better I can tell you that as someone who spends a lot of time in the company of TNG ... a lot of them still take classes(more than I ever did) A lot of them still make their own toys, tools, etc(ah for the throwback to real goth kids) And(this the big one) a lot of them don't buy into porn. Mostly because they watch it then try a few things and end up saying things like "that is so wack, we tried and you can't do that *explative deleted* "



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It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/6/2012 10:24:23 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hangemhigh1953

I think it definitely accounts for all the fantasy wankers.


It did a lot to destroy mine.  I think it helped me to end up believing that D/s was all a charade.  I think, as result and even now, I find certain of the more popular behaviours and trappings of D/s off-putting.  I get hornier looking at a woman in vanilla clothing and imagining her to be dominant 'underneath' than I do when looking at one dressed in all the trappings, whip in hand, for instance.  

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/6/2012 10:56:55 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BootyBoy
So my question is, does porn do more good for D/s, or more harm overall?


Well, I remember the days of having to be embarrassed about sneaking into "adult bookstores", so I think that fact that porn is so readily available on the internet is definitely a good thing. It certainly beats reading through a 6 month old copy of DDI magazine (most readers won't even understand that reference).

The problem is that the porn isn't particularly realistic. D/s porn is about as realistic as vanilla porn is. In other words, it's not the least bit realistic.

If real life were like porn, then every pizza delivery guy would have sex with all the women that he delivers pizzas to. But we all know that pizza delivery is not high on the list of professions that women would typically list as most desirable for their "ideal man".

D/s porn tends to feature a "Dominatrix" wearing a latex outfit, and 9 inch heels, who ties a guy up, spanks him gently, and then gives him a blowjob and lets him fuck her brains out.

If it weren't for the latex outfit, I wouldn't be able to tell the D/s porn from any other porn. There is seldom a depiction of anything even slightly resembling a meaningful degree of power exchange.

But once again, to the extent that D/s porn brings BDSM concepts to a wider audience, then I guess it's a good thing.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/6/2012 11:24:04 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Do you know I still get calls now and again from old DDI's? That magazine has legs! As they say in marketing.

Lushy lent me her password to whatever that site that has Mark Davis on it is... (Listen, I forgot my own NAME today, sentence structure? faugh!) At any rate, Mark is very hot, and I want to hurt him tremendously. The fucking was excellent. Really, it was "traditional" porn with some fancy bondage, and that's the best example of bdsm porn that I can recall. I have seen some nice stuff done by Nina Hartley, but it was more of that "sensual" variety, and so...unsatisfying.

Perhaps I'm doing it wrong... when it comes to porn, I want really pretty people with excellent fashions doing the things that are in my head. (Michael Ninn's LATEX comes to mind). Failing that, I want really pretty people and excellent fashions doing the things I have done already. (I have been known to say, some people have fantasies, I have memories. This is a True Saying). There's nothing out there that I have come across that fills that niche, even when it's created for a female audience.

Thinking back, before we had free streaming whatever, we did have films and tapes and magazines, and they really catered to fetishes more than anything else. That whole "dominatrix" thing is in part the leather/corset/boot fetish. In the early days all that gear was really bound in to what we did, and if you didn't LOOK it, well! How would you "know" just by looking at a picture that that woman was dominant? Without the trigger of the latex or leather, she could be anyone! For some of us, that's the entertainment, but this is PORN. Where the women dress up and the men look like they just walked in off the golf course.

The stereotypes we hate (well, that I have COME to hate) are old, Venus in Furs level stuff. It can be fun to play with those tropes, but the best scenes I've had are when I've been wearing one of my chiffon nighties. (yes I do have special ones that I play in, so??)

Booty's point about bdsm becoming "mainstream", and somehow common, is one that I've heard before. I've been in discussions about whether we would still be doing this if it were less transgressive. For me, the answer is absolutely yes. If it were something ordinary, my pool of playmates would increase exponentially! If cheesy porn clips bring more openminded exploring types in, spiffy! BDSM is not "special" or sanctified in any way, it's just another aspect of human behavior.

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RE: The Porno Clip Effect - 2/6/2012 12:01:48 PM   
r1a2y3m4o5n6d7


Posts: 196
Joined: 1/15/2012
Status: offline 		Mmmmm I want to watch porn with LH. The rest of you send me your porn and I will tell you if it was worth looking at,. I look at it this way. Any type movie weather The Titanic or porn or cartoon is just for entertainment only. You either like the movie or not. It's just a dammed movie.

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