Sub Integrity

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GloriousMorning -> Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 6:21:45 PM)
I have been fortunate enough in my experiences in the lifestyle to get to know and develop relationships with partners who have integrity. To me integrity includes honesty, communication, and respect. These seem like they should be a given in any relationship, but after experiencing one submissive who is not so much ANY of those things, I became curious as to other's (from both sides of the coin) perspectives. What does integrity in a submissive look like to you? Are there certain ways you assess your sub's integrity? I know there are things I am missing that I would like to foster in a new relationship. Ideas?

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 6:27:43 PM)
Integrity, to me, is saying what you mean and meanning what you say. It's being consistent, and standing by your moral/ethical code. it doesn't really look different to me, in an /s person or a D. They might have different specific actions, but the basics are the same. (Sorry, I misread while clicking and thought this was in "ask a sub/slave")

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 6:35:53 PM)
This is too big to type from a phone! And I want to also add, what signs do you look for that show he's all shiny outide and hollow center?

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 6:36:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GloriousMorning I have been fortunate enough in my experiences in the lifestyle to get to know and develop relationships with partners who have integrity. To me integrity includes honesty, communication, and respect. These seem like they should be a given in any relationship, but after experiencing one submissive who is not so much ANY of those things, I became curious as to other's (from both sides of the coin) perspectives. What does integrity in a submissive look like to you? Are there certain ways you assess your sub's integrity? I know there are things I am missing that I would like to foster in a new relationship. Ideas? Personally, I'm looking for a Domme that can take care of me in the grand style I've become accustomed to.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 6:37:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus This is too big to type from a phone! And I want to also add, what signs do you look for that show he's all shiny outide and hollow center? A very fine point if you ask me LH, but frankly....what the HELL does it have to do with me being taken care of in the style I have become accustomed to?

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 6:37:52 PM)
All I ask is a capybara, JJ! You have a real answer in you, cough it up!

GloriousMorning -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 6:49:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep Integrity, to me, is saying what you mean and meanning what you say. It's being consistent, and standing by your moral/ethical code. it doesn't really look different to me, in an /s person or a D. They might have different specific actions, but the basics are the same. (Sorry, I misread while clicking and thought this was in "ask a sub/slave") No problem, I want to hear from both submissive and dominant! Yes I agree, it is a universal relationship issue, but we hear so much about how good dominants must have integrity, be honest, communicative and respectful, and what about our submissive counterparts? Are these qualities being glossed over?

GloriousMorning -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 6:50:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus This is too big to type from a phone! And I want to also add, what signs do you look for that show he's all shiny outide and hollow center? Yes! This! The last one took me to the cleaners when it came to the sparkle shimmery outside!

GloriousMorning -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 6:52:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie A very fine point if you ask me LH, but frankly....what the HELL does it have to do with me being taken care of in the style I have become accustomed to? haha! With some of the attitudes I've received, this is more accurate than some might think! Do you have a genuine answer? I bet you have it in you..

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 7:00:13 PM)
I have been absolutely led astray by the shiny... and that experience has made me trust my judgment ever since.

GloriousMorning -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 7:06:15 PM)
Lady H Interesting, because it had made me second-guess my own judgement. What did I miss in those first interactions?

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 7:13:15 PM)
Lies? If someone presents himself as one kind of person, and at first seems to be that way, what is there to miss? Can we recognize pathology?

GloriousMorning -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 7:31:52 PM)
Lady Hib, indeed we can, and have totally seen it play out, but do we want to believe it initially? I mean, I want to be able to decide for myself if the qualities he possesses are those of integrity, which is why I am asking others for their own thoughts. That said, my BS detector is working just fine, however sometimes great efforts were put into convincing me it was all in my head.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 8:28:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep Integrity, to me, is saying what you mean and meanning what you say. It's being consistent, and standing by your moral/ethical code. it doesn't really look different to me, in an /s person or a D. They might have different specific actions, but the basics are the same. (Sorry, I misread while clicking and thought this was in "ask a sub/slave") An interesting point of view, Lilly. I'm sure many people have it. I've come to have a more fluid understanding of integrity based on a number of realities. Saying what you mean and meaning what you say can change with the weather. More importantly, it can change with changes in information and situation. Same is true for consistency. There is a section in a poem that I like... It doesn’t interest me if the story you are telling me is true. I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself. If you can bear the accusation of betrayal and not betray your own soul. If you can be faithless and therefore trustworthy.* This is a point of view that I sometimes struggle with. There are things that are basically true about people - I'm not totally sure what they are, but I know it when I see it. How much truth and honesty are enough? What level of honesty is acceptable. Again, I know it when I see it. As to the question of the OP, this is one of those "people" things rather than Dom/sub. I have a standard that is necessary for anyone to be in my life in any personal way. Integrity is a part of that... however I define integrity. shrug best wishes, sunshine *from The Invitation by Orian Mountain Dreamer

GloriousMorning -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/6/2012 8:58:43 PM)
sunshinemiss Thank you for your reply. It has since occurred to me that my integrity may different than another's, but I think fundamentally: not consistently lying about common everyday things, feeling bound by honor to treat their partner well, and to communicate when having issues or when one or the other is in need of support. Yes I totally agree, this is a HUMAN quality, not confined to one role or the other. I have got the impression though, that these qualities are quantitative of a good dominant, and that one lacking would indeed be a "bad" Dominant. Perhaps we sometimes overlook the necessity to put emphasis on the integrity in our submissive partners.

LaTigresse -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/7/2012 4:07:05 AM)
I love what Sunshine wrote. Thank you Sunny for sharing that, it embodies the core of who I strive to be. For ME, integrity isn't broken down by personality traits or the type of relationship we want/need. It's a human thing. It's also a lot like having good driving skills, everyone says and honestly believes they have it, but if that's the case, who are all the morons I avoid on the road every day? It's so individual. Add to that, our uniquely human ability to lie to ourselves, and it can be a bit of a landmine. As for knowing whether or not a prospective slave will share my vision of personal integrity, it's their actions rather than their words, that tell me. I've had very very few that have proven they share my vision of it. It has been my experience that yes, the glittery package, is usually misleading. The more 'perfect' they appear to be, the earlier they appear to be perfect, is a HUGE red flag for me. I don't do or say anything, I just remain watchful. There are always little things that send up more red flags. It happened on here, on the other side, about a month or so ago. The person was quite good at trying to stroke my ego, saying all of the right things, making promises.........then did the typical dumbass fuckups. And BAM......whomever, whatever....when cornered, disappeared. Because the communications hadn't gotten beyond the computer, it didn't really matter to me. I don't get emotionally attached via the net in any important measurable way. In person, it's not that different than online. Just different sorts of cues. I am one that is slow to jump into any sort of relationship. I prefer to take my time and get to know people before I invite them into my home, let alone my bed. That in and of itself is a good screening process. Most of the glittery ones tend to get bored and move on. I used to think I was screwing up in my process, missing out. Then when I saw how their relationships went, I always feel like I dodged a drama laden bullet. I think that our 'need' to be in a relationship has a direct correlation with what we ignore up front and tolerate further on. I think we ALL know or have known, someone that we view as being desperate, that gets into one horrid relationship situation after another. Always needing someone in their life and tolerating stuff that makes us shake our heads. We watch and wonder "what the hell....?" Maybe some of us ARE that person, or at least have been. I've always been stubborn and more anitsocial than I care to admit. It's kept me from a lot of relationship drama. Whether or not it's kept me from a few good relationships......maybe. But I've avoided allowing the glittery, lacking integrity, to burrow into my life and home. So for ME, it's all good.

ProlificNeeds -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/7/2012 5:55:16 AM)
Integrity is one of those things that, lacking a single quality can errode it, but it takes many qualities to actually form it. Being truthful, as well as true to the self are part of it, as is -doing- what you say you will do. I worry less about words and more about actions when deciding someone's integrity. Being aware of your surroundings and how your actions influence others is also a big part of that for me, weighing factors before acting, instead of always acting in self-interest alone. I also seperate 'integrity' from 'like'. I don't have to like or be attracted to someone for them to have integrity in my eyes.

bighappygoth39 -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/7/2012 7:53:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus I have been absolutely led astray by the shiny... and that experience has made me trust my judgment ever since. I can totally identify with that. When you get to a certain age and still manage to get led astray by the shiny, it can definitely put a dent in trusting your judgement, but how I saw it when that happened to me was that he was portraying himself as something he was not. I've never been a walkover, but I tend to take people for their word, especially after getting to know them over a certain amount of time. I'd always been proud of my judgement, and I admit it did shake it up a bit, but I soon realised that it was not a downfall on my part in the slightest. If you spend plenty of time with someone, and they're completely lying to you, it's definitely not an issue with your judgement. Unfortunately, some people are very, very good at lying, so you shouldn't let it stop you trusting other people. It just made me more aware that not everyone is on the level. If the right person comes along, then it might be harder work for them to gain your trust, but it'll be worth it in the end. [:D]

crazyml -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/7/2012 9:27:51 AM)
<makes being sick noises> That was beautiful sunny

Lockit -> RE: Sub Integrity (2/7/2012 11:14:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GloriousMorning sunshinemiss Thank you for your reply. It has since occurred to me that my integrity may different than another's, but I think fundamentally: not consistently lying about common everyday things, feeling bound by honor to treat their partner well, and to communicate when having issues or when one or the other is in need of support. Yes I totally agree, this is a HUMAN quality, not confined to one role or the other. I have got the impression though, that these qualities are quantitative of a good dominant, and that one lacking would indeed be a "bad" Dominant. Perhaps we sometimes overlook the necessity to put emphasis on the integrity in our submissive partners. Integrity is something I insist upon, but more importantly, I look for someone with a similar honor code, ethics and intelligence. I've made my mistakes. I've bought into someone with a good sales pitch, but I don't go all the way... meaning, I don't give all of myself until I know for sure he is who and what he says he is. That I learned from my mistakes. There are poor liars and good liars and the good liars... tend to be well skilled in figuring out what a woman finds important and playing that part until they get what they want. I don't give them what they want. I take what I want and that is to find out how much they really care about me and what they live true to before I give my all. I would say, the majority of men I have talked to online have been liars. It wasn't my picker gone wrong. It was someone contacting me in email and then talking to them whether I had a good feel or not. It wasn't even at that point for most of them. They weren't so bad I marked them off as anything yet. By holding firmly to what I believe, what I want, expect and my own code of conduct, I was able to weed out those that needed weeding. I can be kind, generous, open and forthright without compromising too much of my self and time. I am not so jaded or afraid that I won't be open to someone proving themselves, but they must prove themselves. Any time I have compromised something I held appropriate in getting to know someone or broke my own rules... I have made a mistake, but even then, I don't let it get so far that it is a mistake of ignorance or something I could excuse somehow. I found that anytime someone confused me... they were hiding something. So, what I am basically trying to say is that I cannot blame someone for trying to take advantage of me... thats what a lot of people do. I can blame myself for whatever happens because I missed something or did something wrong in my view. If they got too far... it was my fault for not being at my best and it quickly gets evaluated and I adjust to my lesson or relearning of something and continue on, knowing I cannot do that again because I was in the wrong to nullify something I found important in the first place. While it is important that they are similar in integrity... it is more important that I know to find it before I go to places I shouldn't go to. It's up to me to find the truth and then take advantage of it when I do and not a moment sooner and until then, they don't get too much of me that I would be sorry about giving later on. They are excused of nothing, but I firmly put it in my own hands as to how it goes, even when I have fucked up and let them know I wasn't happy with them... I am the bottom line.

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