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Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/8/2012 2:41:59 AM

BenevolentM

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In "Think there is a god and what is your evidence?" I wrote:

quote:

In theory, Atheists would have fewer difficulties, but what you said "I sure as hell won't worship it, but I will believe it because it has been proved."(1) suggests that you do not have a clue. Permit me to explain. Suppose God were a person that knew you better than you know yourself and had the means to fabricate anything including a perfect body, male or female. Are you saying that God would not have what it takes to seduce you if it were so inclined? As an Atheist you have a duty to acknowledge that your reasoning is flawed. Could you resist and why would you want to?

It occurred to me that what I wrote deserves its own thread. I want to know if Atheists would embrace God if they had proof of His existence? It seems likely to me that many of the so called faithful will be cast into Hell due to their unwillingness to accept, as ironic as this may seem, His Word? If God were to appear to them today, they would shun Him. There is a presumption that the nature of God can be discerned by observing His followers.

I cannot blame you if you are skeptical.

(1) I was quoting hardcybermaster. For my original post that included the quote see http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4026915.

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 3:30:46 PM

BenevolentM

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This thread was [Awaiting Approval], but by the time it got approved it fell off the radar screen; consequently, no one got an opportunity to post to this thread so I'm posting this to bring the thread back up. Today, I also found out that I'm no longer on moderation. Yay!

(in reply to BenevolentM)

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 3:38:12 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

I want to know if Atheists would embrace God if they had proof of His existence?

Bill Maher has promised to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8U_JveHS8E

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 3:39:36 PM

LadyHibiscus

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This atheist would not.

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 3:42:10 PM

BoxwineForBrunch

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if a unicorn started hanging out in my backyard i'd feed it. i'd even buy fancy steaks and shit for it because unicorns are awesome.

is that the question?

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 3:44:21 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

I want to know if Atheists would embrace God if they had proof of His existence?

First, how presumptious of you to assume that god...whom you have never met...is a he.
Second, isnt the nature of a belief in a supreme being the requirement of faith? If god were to be proved where would that leave the value of faith?

(in reply to BenevolentM)

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 3:52:04 PM

hardcybermaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

In "Think there is a god and what is your evidence?" I wrote:

quote:

In theory, Atheists would have fewer difficulties, but what you said "I sure as hell won't worship it, but I will believe it because it has been proved."(1) suggests that you do not have a clue. Permit me to explain. Suppose God were a person that knew you better than you know yourself and had the means to fabricate anything including a perfect body, male or female. Are you saying that God would not have what it takes to seduce you if it were so inclined? As an Atheist you have a duty to acknowledge that your reasoning is flawed. Could you resist and why would you want to?

It occurred to me that what I wrote deserves its own thread. I want to know if Atheists would embrace God if they had proof of His existence? It seems likely to me that many of the so called faithful will be cast into Hell due to their unwillingness to accept, as ironic as this may seem, His Word? If God were to appear to them today, they would shun Him. There is a presumption that the nature of God can be discerned by observing His followers.

I cannot blame you if you are skeptical.

(1) I was quoting hardcybermaster. For my original post that included the quote see http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4026915.

why would god want to seduce me? why would s/he want to pretend to be my perfect woman? My reasoning wasn't flawed, I would be in love with the perfect woman, not worshipping god. And if god,in the shape of this perfect woman revealed her/himself on my death bed I would find the strength for somewhere to punch him/her for being a twat.
This has always been one of my big problems with god, excluding his lack of existance of course, why the fuck does he need us to worship him? How fucking needy is he? This is where it all falls down and becomes an illusion created to control people

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 4:02:08 PM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoxwineForBrunch

if a unicorn started hanging out in my backyard i'd feed it. i'd even buy fancy steaks and shit for it because unicorns are awesome.

is that the question?

Well sure, a UNICORN. Or a gryphon. I would totally feed a gryphon. I just wouldnt worship it.

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 4:21:05 PM

FemmeDominion

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I don't know that "God" desires to be worshiped. Just sayin'

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FD: Mine is much more advanced.

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 4:36:22 PM

tazzygirl

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The "God" of the bible does... how accurate you wish to view that is up to you after all the translations.

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 4:48:08 PM

FemmeDominion

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But the Bible is a human made (though can be argued to be channeled but certainly edited by humans.) Has "God" said unequivocally to everybody directly that "God" desires to be worshiped? I don't know for certain, as in "God" has never said directly to me, that "God" needs/desires this of anyone.

I think I'm off topic, aren't I? Perhaps I need to begin my own thread...

_____________________________

Now this is not gonna be pretty. We're talking violence, strong language, adult content...

o·pin·ion -a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

FD,Your logic does not resemble our Earth logic.
FD: Mine is much more advanced.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 11

RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 4:56:02 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The "God" of the bible does... how accurate you wish to view that is up to you after all the translations.

Just for interest...

O.E. worðscip, wurðscip (Anglian), weorðscipe (W.Saxon) "condition of being worthy"
O.E. weorð "equal in value to"

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? ~John 10:33-36

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. ~Psalm 82:6

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 5:01:38 PM

Edwynn

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Well thanks for being the party pooper yet again.

After that information I can't do the 'I am not worthy' gesture to someone anymore.

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 5:43:44 PM

Hippiekinkster

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Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I want to know if Atheists would embrace God if they had proof of His existence?

First, how presumptious of you to assume that god...whom you have never met...is a he.
Second, isnt the nature of a belief in a supreme being the requirement of faith? If god were to be proved where would that leave the value of faith?

1) Goddamn, man, it's just a fucking pronoun.
2) Value of faith? What value? What would one have faith in? Why?

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(in reply to thompsonx)

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 5:59:26 PM

kdsub

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No I think more like if God were real and had the power to send you to everlasting pain in hell...would you then kiss his ass?

Butch

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 6:19:41 PM

stellauk

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We could turn this right round..

What if there was already evidence disproving the existence of a deity commonly perceived as God in the form of a male human being?

What if God is actually a form of spiritual energy existing throughout a spiritual world of which we have little awareness or knowledge, but which contains and is far greater in all dimensions than our entire Universe?

What does it matter?

You see there will come a day when life ends and we die and it is that experience which we will all go through will reveal to us what happens next in our existence.

I feel that the reality of that experience isn't going to be anything like I believe it is going to be like.

Religion to me isn't about being right or wrong (that to me is what morality is all about which is something entirely different) but about looking on my fellow human being as my family and brethren, about practising love, compassion and kindness.

If religion WAS about being right or wrong, then Jesus would never have gone against the established order of the Jews and the Romans and would not have been crucified.

Sadly too many followers of the three main Abrahamic religions Christianity, Islam and Judaism miss the point and believe it IS all about being right and wrong, which explains why people continue to be oppressed, persecuted and killed in the name of God.

Freedom to believe is just that. If you want to believe that God is this ancient hippy dude with long white hair, beard and robes then what does it matter to me or anyone else? He could be Santa Claus for all I care.

But what freedom to believe isn't is when you hate or persecute someone else for not sharing your beliefs. That has no place in religion and does your fellow believers a disservice.

Just my two cents.

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 10:10:08 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Suppose God were a person that knew you better than you know yourself and had the means to fabricate anything including a perfect body, male or female. Are you saying that God would not have what it takes to seduce you if it were so inclined? As an Atheist you have a duty to acknowledge that your reasoning is flawed. Could you resist and why would you want to?

It is supposed that I, along with everyone else, was created in the GodGuys image. Certainly that's not a flesh thing even if GodGuy puts on a flesh suit. We're all so different in that regard. So it's something else, some other image of which I would be a reflection. That's gotta be soul or spirit or character or emotion. Something along those lines. The name is really irrelevant. It's the love, the hate, joy, despair, hope, the ability to laugh at a joke, cry at a funeral.. the whole shebang. Those things in me would be in the GodGuy, too. The good, bad and indifferent, what I feel is what GodGuy would have to feel if I am in his image.. if I am his reflection. That being the case, as it must be if the creation is the reflection, then he is either as flawed as I am or what I think of as flaws are not, in fact, flaws at all in which case, I, too, am perfect.

Without flaws though, there is no sin. Without sin, you don't send your son down to die for the sins of others, so sin must be a truth if GodGuy is a truth. If sin is truth, then flaws are truth. If flaws are truth then GodGuy is flawed. Either that or he didn't send Hey Zeus down anywhere and any sins we have are on us to repair or repent. We, GodGuy and I are either both flawed or both perfect. I opt for flawed because I'm Machiavellian (as in seeing things as they are rather than as I wish they were) in that regard but I strive for perfect because I think that's what good people try to do and I try to be good whether I am successful in the endeavor or not.

Even if it could be proven that GodGuy exists, he's would be both the highest and lowest of all. I won't worship him because of the evil that is within, the insanity, the complete corruption, sickness and all other things are too overwhelming for me to be able to set those aside and see the beauty, joy, bliss that must also be there. In me, then in him.. in anyone, then in him and there are some pretty scary people on this planet.

I think the best I could do would be to acknowledge his humanity, as I do my own, then the two of us could go out and grab a cup of coffee or eat oranges or something together.

All that stuff up there.. that stuff I just wrote is based on the idea that creation is the image of God.

Now, let me throw all that out and address it from the point of view that creation is 'not' the image of God. GodGuy is elite, and the qualities we possess as humans are simply by-products of our existance and GodGuy is other and perfect.

So what? Other is just other. Is perfect better? How do you grow from perfect? Talk about a major stumble block. GodGuys at the end. There is no more journey, only the stagnation of mere existance.

Hell, if I got to that point and faced centuries of nothing new to discover because I know it all, I might make a race of pets to amuse myself as well.

I see nothing to worship. It's just an Other with pets.

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 11:05:18 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

All that stuff up there.. that stuff I just wrote is based on the idea that creation is the image of God.

Here's a different exegesis:

You are exactly as God would be if he was born into your body, raised by your parents, experienced all the joys and disappointments that you have experienced, the moments of elation and the moments of suffering, the luck and the injustices, the love and the losses, if he had walked in your shoes since the moment you were born, forgetting who he really was, and that you were his image...

Just as you have forgotten.

Kirata the Mystic

< Message edited by Kirata -- 2/10/2012 11:52:01 PM >

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/10/2012 11:26:31 PM

Trismagistus

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Find me god, and I shall attempt to slay him, just as I have planned since I was a wee lil baptist.

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RE: Could you resist and why would you want to? - 2/11/2012 12:29:11 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trismagistus

Find me god, and I shall attempt to slay him, just as I have planned since I was a wee lil baptist.

You know where he is. Any particular kind of flowers you'd like?

K.

(in reply to Trismagistus)

Post #: 20

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