RE: threats (Full Version)

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Kana -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 9:12:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi
A threat is never where you want to go right off the bat, in fact it's pretty much where you never want to go - the only thing you can do after you make a threat is carry it out or not. It's the end of the line with no way out. If he threatens and doesn't carry it out, then he's a liar, and his word doesn't mean a thing. Therefore you don't make threats unless you are going to make them happen.


This.

Great reason why Dominants need be careful with their words, what they say and how they say it.



DarkSteven -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 9:25:31 AM)

I have done this.  It was never about something as simple as not making noises, etc.  It was due to my partner not doing enough to pull her weight in a relationship, not following my direct commands, trying to mislead me, etc.  Things I considered major enough that the threat was the absolute last step before I DID leave, after I had discussed it with her.  And when things didn't improve - I did leave.

I would never make that threat unless all other means had been exhausted, and if it was a serious enough issue that I was willing to cease the relationship otherwise.

OP, from your description, either the guy is so insecure that he's not willing to Dominate by more realistic means, or he enjoys terrifying you.



LillyBoPeep -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 9:29:47 AM)

See, something like that makes sense, DS. Those are major issues that would kill a relationship, anyway.
And as you said, that was the LAST step before you really DID leave. That's a different situation, and quite justifiable.



OsideGirl -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 9:41:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

See, something like that makes sense, DS. Those are major issues that would kill a relationship, anyway.
And as you said, that was the LAST step before you really DID leave. That's a different situation, and quite justifiable.

I agree with Lilly. There's a difference between a "come to Jesus" statement and someone that continually uses that threat over and over and over as a means of control.



DesFIP -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 9:46:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

So my question is, when he threatened to leave, what were the extenuating circumstances? I'm not going to say he's blackmailing you. I'm not going to say he's a jerk or that you did anything wrong either.



She answered that. The last time he was inflicting more pain on her than she could process and told her he was leaving if she couldn't magically process it and stand there stoically. He didn't ramp her up, never took the time to teach her how to process pain - and not everyone is wired to do that either. Just said he was leaving forever if what he couldn't teach her didn't happen immediately.



Killerangel -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 9:55:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi
A threat is never where you want to go right off the bat, in fact it's pretty much where you never want to go - the only thing you can do after you make a threat is carry it out or not. It's the end of the line with no way out. If he threatens and doesn't carry it out, then he's a liar, and his word doesn't mean a thing. Therefore you don't make threats unless you are going to make them happen.


This.

Great reason why Dominants need be careful with their words, what they say and how they say it.


Hells to the yes.

Anyone needs to be careful with their words - weakness and immaturity aren't attractive in a single soul no matter what their orientation. I'd say it's pretty much common knowledge that unless you plan on carrying all the way through, threats and ultimatums are weak sauce.



Kana -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 10:47:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Killerangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi
A threat is never where you want to go right off the bat, in fact it's pretty much where you never want to go - the only thing you can do after you make a threat is carry it out or not. It's the end of the line with no way out. If he threatens and doesn't carry it out, then he's a liar, and his word doesn't mean a thing. Therefore you don't make threats unless you are going to make them happen.


This.

Great reason why Dominants need be careful with their words, what they say and how they say it.


Hells to the yes.

Anyone needs to be careful with their words - weakness and immaturity aren't attractive in a single soul no matter what their orientation. I'd say it's pretty much common knowledge that unless you plan on carrying all the way through, threats and ultimatums are weak sauce.

One would think...but sadly, that's not the way life seems to go. Folks blurt shit out, make threats w/o thinking, whatever-the result is that it undercuts their credibility...and, if they don't follow through consistently enough, leaves the slave with no respect for the threat, or the one that issued the threat, and w/o any structure or discipline.
Personally I think threats are the first, and last resort of the week.
Now, I will admit to being of the belief that the ultimate threat is the "Doors that way" one. ..but it's pretty much the nuclear bomb of threats-it leaves lots of emotional damage (I mean really, she builds her life around him, offers him everything that she is and wants to be, and he consistently threatens to pull the rug out-yeah-that'll fuck her all up mentally)and is not to be used lightly and never, ever unless the guy is willing to follow through



graceadieu -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 10:57:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I have been with someone like that before and never again for me. That is why I will not be a slave again, or even a sub (other than in the bedroom).. I dont like someone pushing past my limits and then tell me to leave because I cant take more... I want a saner relationship than that.. I am gun shy now and it will take getting to know someone quite well, making as sure as i can that he has the temperment i need, before i agree to be with him. Once you get sucked into the vortex and become attached to someone you are screwed if he is the wrong guy, its live that life or leave... Thats just been my experience, at any rate..


The trouble is, it seems like this kind of "do this or I'll leave" behavior is pretty common among manipulative people, kinky or not. (Hell, my mom used to do that shit to me when I was a teenager.) You're not going to get away from that by avoiding D/s. But getting to know someone well before you commit - yeah, that's how you avoid being with someone like that.



sweetkitten42 -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 11:12:03 AM)

Thanks for all the replies. I have been receiving great advice for all of you and will take some time to think things over with my current Dom.



sexyred1 -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 11:13:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetkitten42

Hi,

I have been with my Master for over 2 years now and it is usually very good. Sometimes if I am not doing as I am told or not up to his standards he threatens to leave and never come back. For example: today we played very intense and he didn't like that I couldn't keep still or stop making noises, he said that he would leave and never come back twice. As soon as he left, I couldn't stop crying and had to take a ativan to relax. So is this my weakness? is it emotional abuse? or nothing at all? [/size]


Total emotional abuse and a total asshole. Tell him to leave. Do not put up with that crap. Seriously.



tj444 -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 12:53:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I have been with someone like that before and never again for me. That is why I will not be a slave again, or even a sub (other than in the bedroom).. I dont like someone pushing past my limits and then tell me to leave because I cant take more... I want a saner relationship than that.. I am gun shy now and it will take getting to know someone quite well, making as sure as i can that he has the temperment i need, before i agree to be with him. Once you get sucked into the vortex and become attached to someone you are screwed if he is the wrong guy, its live that life or leave... Thats just been my experience, at any rate..


The trouble is, it seems like this kind of "do this or I'll leave" behavior is pretty common among manipulative people, kinky or not. (Hell, my mom used to do that shit to me when I was a teenager.) You're not going to get away from that by avoiding D/s. But getting to know someone well before you commit - yeah, that's how you avoid being with someone like that.

I never had that happen in any vanilla relationships I had. There is a huge difference to me, in a D/s or bdsm relationship you need to trust the person you are with because as a sub you give up control, especially if there is the pain thing involved. In a vanilla relationship, there is no pain thing which means no need for the guy to use the "take it/more or I'll leave" thing for that, not to mention its a more equal relationship, control-wise. As i said, I will take the time to get to know the guy quite well before getting into a relationship with him, that goes equally for Doms or vanilla guys. But i know that lack of control over me means most Doms would not be a good fit with me..



LillyBoPeep -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 1:38:19 PM)

Even without it being an expressly stated power imbalance, a vanilla relationship can still have a manipulatio component. Not nnecessarily about "take more pain or I'll leave," but "don't question my inordinately close friendship with a coworker or I'll leave." The manipulator gets power by emotionally threatening the partner (who they usually seek out by little traits or quirks that a person suceptible to manipulation might give off, like desperation).

Vanilla people still want to be able to trust their partners, just maybe with different things than people I a power exchange do. But even at that, in a vailla relationship, each person stiill trusts the partner with life, finances, etc - so it's really not SOOO different. The risk of manipulation exists anywhere.



justapet09 -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 1:38:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetkitten42

Hi,

I have been with my Master for over 2 years now and it is usually very good. Sometimes if I am not doing as I am told or not up to his standards he threatens to leave and never come back. For example: today we played very intense and he didn't like that I couldn't keep still or stop making noises, he said that he would leave and never come back twice. As soon as he left, I couldn't stop crying and had to take a ativan to relax. So is this my weakness? is it emotional abuse? or nothing at all?


Yep, it's emotional blackmail = abuse.

If personal pride and self-esteem are important to you, you need to call him on it and point him to the door etc. Frankly, it shows him to have a dubious character, anyway, and you should seriously consider punting his sorry arse for keeps.

Focus.


My ex used to do this to me, right up until the day I told him not to let the door hit him in the ass on his way out and if he couldn't find the door, I'd draw him a map.



xXLithiumXx -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 1:54:18 PM)



I had a partner that did this to me all the time. Omg. If it was a small tiff, "I'm leaving." If it was a giant blow out knock down drag out fight "I'm leaving." He would come and go from the house slamming doors and acting like an ass...

Let me tell you something...this is the single worst form of emotional abuse that there is in my opinion. Particularly for a submissive.

The bond there, the dependency the sub has....It's pretty dammed deep. So the dom does this...and it's mind blowing. You cant think, you panic, you cry, you go through so many things at one time..your brain can not process.

Honey, talk to him til you're blue in the face. This isn't a dominant issue, this is a man issue. This is part of who he is as a person. It's a passive aggressive statement of "I want you to want me...and if you dont seem like you want me enough, or in the way I want you to, I will make you cry and beg for me..."

I hate this shit! I can not stand to see someone do this, or go through this.

That experience has made it so that I have serious separation issues. Like, if I were a dog, I would chew up shoes and piss on the rugs I get so bad sometimes. It also makes me form emotional attachments to the wrong kind of people, or too quickly, and I get hurt a lot easier and a lot more.

I know that you have invested a great deal of time in this guy. I know that you have invested a great deal of yourself in him. But, this isn't healthy. In anyway. Not even a little. I'm pretty certain you realize this, or you wouldn't be asking.

Now you have to have the strength to do something about it.




tj444 -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 2:10:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
Even without it being an expressly stated power imbalance, a vanilla relationship can still have a manipulatio component. Not nnecessarily about "take more pain or I'll leave," but "don't question my inordinately close friendship with a coworker or I'll leave." The manipulator gets power by emotionally threatening the partner (who they usually seek out by little traits or quirks that a person suceptible to manipulation might give off, like desperation).

Vanilla people still want to be able to trust their partners, just maybe with different things than people I a power exchange do. But even at that, in a vailla relationship, each person stiill trusts the partner with life, finances, etc - so it's really not SOOO different. The risk of manipulation exists anywhere.

I take as much of that out of the relationship as possible. I dont have bank accounts with anyone else and never will. Even with my ex, the real estate I owned was always only in my name, he had nothing to do with it. I would not be with a man that would not "allow" me to have my own money, assets or tell me that I could not work and earn my own money.. So, really, manipulators can probably sense from how i handle myself that I am not a good victim for them and they go elsewhere..



DarkSteven -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 2:28:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx
This isn't a dominant issue, this is a man issue.



Actually, that's an understatement.  Nobody who's a genuine Dom would pull that shit.  Just like a good diplomat will work with other countries and not scream that he will drop nuclear bombs on them every time he gets upset.

The weirdness will come when she calls his bluff - he's going to either be forced to end things or lose all his power.  He'll try to bluff his way out by "punishing" her, but if she asks why she should put up with that when he's going to end things anyway, he'll look like a complete idiot.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 2:59:42 PM)

This could be emotional abuse, but I don't think any of us, even you, have enough information.

You need to have a conversation with him that discusses the specific situation you have raised, but also, perhaps, a broader discussion about your relationship generally. You've been together for 2 years which is not a lifetime, but also not an insignificant length of time either. And so without discussing things with him, I don't see how you can come to any further conclusions about what is going on. Your post seems to suggest this is a new type of behavior from him that he didn't exhibit before (or has it been going on the whole time - if it has maybe this is a clearer issue of emotional abuse?) Anyway, it seems that if you both want the relationship to be a long-term one, this constant threat of him leaving is not actually going to solidify things between the two of you. On its face it is hard to know if he has something in mind by using this threat, or if he is just poorly handling a discipline situation, or poorly handling a training situation. Everyone's threshold for pain and experience of pain is different. What works for one will not for another. It takes two to achieve a particular result if he wants play to unfold in a particular way and so if all he is trying to achieve is that result, perhaps if the two of you talk, you can come up with something that will work better than the current strategy. But if this is a new behavior from him, you also need to contemplate whether he is feeling the need to leave the relationship and that the threat actually represents some deeper thoughts on his part and some sort of immature acting out rather than making the decision to leave the relationship.

One thing I can be sure of is that you should not be shy about raising the issue with him and having a discussion where you fully voice your issues and concerns. How he reacts to this will tell you volumes about how to interpret his behavior pattern. Be well.



graceadieu -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 3:56:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Even without it being an expressly stated power imbalance, a vanilla relationship can still have a manipulatio component. Not nnecessarily about "take more pain or I'll leave," but "don't question my inordinately close friendship with a coworker or I'll leave." The manipulator gets power by emotionally threatening the partner (who they usually seek out by little traits or quirks that a person suceptible to manipulation might give off, like desperation).


Yes, that's what I was talking about. Or "don't disagree with me or I'll leave" or "do [some sex act] with me or I'll leave" or "stop trying to get me to stop drinking or I'll leave" or "join my religion or I'll leave" or "bail me out financially or I'll leave" or "help me cover up this illegal thing I did or I'll leave".



JanahX -> RE: threats (2/12/2012 9:32:55 PM)

Abandonment is one of the most fucked up things someone could do to another person. There are a whole slew of problems that stem from abandonment issues that carry into your every day life. It can effect your self esteem and how you view everyone, and how you relate to other people. Not just with your S.O. - so be careful with this, it really might be damaging to you in the long run, if you already dont have issues with it from the past.

Here is a website about abandonment, the effects from abandonment, abandonees and the profiles of abandoners. http://www.abandonment.net/faq.html



littleone35 -> RE: threats (2/13/2012 9:21:36 AM)

Sounds like emotional abuse  to me.  Talk to him and you yould tell him if you keep this up I AM LEAVING  then stick to it.

Matt's littleone



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