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RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 4:24:18 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBigDog


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBigDog

This is just more lies being told by misandrists who also naturally hate our soldiers. Their trying to make soldiers out to be rapists but that woman on Fox is right. You put men in situations like that and then you put these women who are really pawns of feminists and you say to them "You'll be a pioneer and a hero if you just go out and do this." Well what do they expect to happen? What benefit was their ever to putting women in the military in the first place? None. It's no surprise that this is all happening under the watch of the black Muslim who wants to destroy the military anyway. It's time someone did something about this.

Got a shred of evidence to back this up or is it more bullshit?


I suggest you watch the personal ad homenam style attacks against users and try to move the conversation forward.


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are they like pullups with spiderman?
yes serious question!!! ive heard of roos but never seen em!

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 4:31:56 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Exactly those, Lucy. I find that when my son put those on, he acted a bit more mature. It was my hope to help the new person along in that aspect. I dont mind providing big boy panties when the need arises.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 4:43:01 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Kind of an interesting statement from someone who has a whole profile about what they are looking for in a sub, that ends with the statement "feminazis need to apply". 

You are really not coming across as smart as you keep claiming to be, Mr. Dog. And is that a picture of the Unibomber's cabin?
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBigDog

[
Oh look a strawman argument right outta the feminazi handbook. These women are being judged on there behavior same as a man would. Isn't that what equality means or does equality only mean special favors and special treatment?


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 4:54:46 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
It`s usually is ALWAYS............. that men................ are the rapists.


If your assertion is that women never rape men, you are sadly misinformed.



Yet you fail to address Owners actual point. That the majority of rapes are carried out by men on women.

You just seem interested in more of your feminist bashing bullshit.

I think the fucks-news femi-con was trying to appeal to the older/past generation`s myths about rape.

Before the feminist enlightenment,a rape victim was often made a victim again and again after the attack.

"What were you wearing?"

"Don`t you think dressing slutty was "asking for it?"

"Why were you out alone?"

"Should you be out alone,aren`t you asking for it?"

Little do Chauvin`s minions realize that ANYONE can be a victim.

The elderly,the interned and ill,plain`ol ugly fat smelly people who don`t dress slutty,the mentally and physically handicapped,rich and poor alike....EVERYONE is potentially a victim.

The older generation`s attitude about sex in general were pretty backward and based mostly in fear and ignorance.

It was that backdrop that allowed/allows predators to thrive.

Institutions like the Catholic church ,teachers and coaches, and family members have for generations been able to operate in secret, because all the kids and women who were never listened to and the predators knew this all to well.

This older generation is still out there and need to be catered to and fed red meat like this.fox is that provider.

I think it`s just awful but that`s how the older generation thinks and what they mean when they say they want to "take America back".

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/15/2012 5:01:27 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 7:20:58 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

You're talking about college stuidents who wear a uniform. Again; not an excuse for the behavior; just a distinction between honest-to-goodness soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines and the crucibles which turn them out.

The flaw in your thinking is that everybody at a military academy is a student. The assaulters could have been instructors, who aren't trainees.

quote:

The "64%" number wasn't a "survey" of the military. It was a "survey" of the military academies.

While I did refer to a VA survey earlier in this thread, this report of a 64% increase in sexual assault reports at military academies is not a survey but a report on all the sex assaults reported, which the DOD estimates to be 10% of actual assaults.



USMAWP has 4,400 students (pretty much), every year. The faculty to student ratio is 1:8.

64% of 4,400 is 2816


It's a 64% increase in reports (as it's been since page 1.)

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 7:34:47 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		and my point has consistently been: These are not truly soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. Please, let's stop calling it the military. It is the military academies.



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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 7:40:41 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ETA: Okay. I clicked on the link to get me to the original pentagon report.

Note that that report is for the entire military, not just military academies, at which 41 sexual assaults were reported.

quote:

They're saying that there were 3,200 reported cases but, that they estimate 19,000 actual cases because of under-reporting.

How can anyone quantify that?

THIS is where the survey comes in - based on surveys, the DOD estimates that 90% of assaults go unreported.

http://servicewomen.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Service-Academy-Report-2011-PDF.pdf

Incidents of rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment do not only occur within the Armed Forces, but
also at U.S. Military Service Academies—the renowned institutions where future officers are trained for
the U.S. military. In the 2009‐2010 academic year, 41 sexual assaults were reported at the service
academies, a 64% increase from the prior year.5 However, by the DoD’s own estimates, this number
represents less than 10% of the actual number of assaults. We turn to survey data in order to paint a
more accurate picture of rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment prevalence at the academies,
which indicate that 520 cadets and midshipmen experienced one or more incidents of “unwanted sexual
contact.” Overall, 12.9% of women and 1.9% of men report an experience of unwanted sexual contact at
the academies, while 56% of women and 12% of men report experiences of sexual harassment.

...Disturbingly, survey data at the academies reveal more reported incidents of rape, sexual assault, and
sexual harassment than in the Armed Forces. A similar survey conducted in the Armed Forces revealed
that 6.8% of women and 1.8% of men experienced unwanted sexual contact and that 34% of women
and 6% of men experienced sexual harassment.6 As illustrated in the figure above, these rates are much
higher, and sometimes even double, among the academies.

As in the Armed Forces, most survivors of rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment at service
academies are violated by their own peers. Of women at the USMA, USNA, USAFA, and USCGA who
experienced unwanted sexual contact, 94%, 90%, 91%, and 76% respectively indicated the perpetrator
was a fellow cadet or midshipman. 93‐100% reported that the perpetrator was male.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 7:51:20 PM   
kalikshama


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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

and my point has consistently been: These are not truly soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. Please, let's stop calling it the military. It is the military academies.


I object to your "college kids in uniform" position. I was considered an airman while in Boot Camp, which only lasted 6 weeks.

http://servicewomen.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Service-Academy-Report-2011-PDF.pdf

SWAN is concerned about the high rates of rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment that occur at the
academies, as well as a culture and policies that prevent survivors from reporting. Because the
academies are supposed to be highly controlled, disciplined environments, the high rates of sexual
violence are especially disturbing.

Moreover, academy graduates are disproportionately represented among the highest ranks of the
military. Of the 721 individuals who have reached the rank of four‐star general or admiral, 464 (64%)
graduated from a service academy. In the Navy, an overwhelming 90% of four‐star admirals were
commissioned from a service academy.

Additionally, academy graduates often end up in top positions of
power within the government, as Representatives and Senators in the U.S. Congress and as cabinet
members. Former presidents Jimmy Carter and Dwight Eisenhower are both academy graduates.

Because the academies train future generations of leaders both in the military and in powerful
government positions, it is especially important that these cadets and midshipmen are trained to
enforce rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment policies. It is equally important that cadets and
midshipmen learn from their leaders’ example that perpetrators of sexual violence and harassment
should not only be prosecuted or punished, but also receive the maximum punishment. Unfortunately,
that is not the message cadets and midshipmen are taking away from their academy experiences.

Further, survivors of sexual violence and harassment in the academies are constrained by the same
barriers that prevent servicemembers from reporting experiences of rape, sexual assault, and sexual
harassment. SWAN intends to incorporate the academies in our overall policy agenda to eradicate
military rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment. We hope that bringing attention to sexual violence
at the academies will help stop this crisis in the military by training future officers to enforce military
policy, prosecute sexual offenders, and punish perpetrators to the fullest extent allowed by law.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 8:11:52 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		When Douglas Meester enrolled in the Air Force Academy three years ago, he felt he had the right stuff to succeed at the prestigious military school. But today, the 20-year-old Meester is back home in Florida awaiting his day in military court.

Watch 20/20's full report Friday at 10 p.m.

He is the first Air Force Academy cadet scheduled to be court-martialed for allegedly raping a female cadet.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=124316&page=1#.Tzx_xMVSQ9A

Former cadet agrees to plea bargain in rape case
AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. (AP) — The only cadet to face a court-martial following last year's rape scandal has agreed to plead guilty to reduced charges, his attorney said Tuesday

Douglas Meester of Marco Island, Fla., was accused of assaulting a fellow cadet in October 2002 during a night of heavy drinking in a dorm room. He was originally charged with rape, sodomy, indecent assault and providing alcohol to minors.

Meester's lawyer, Frank Spinner, said those charges were dropped and, in exchange, Meester would plead guilty to conduct unbecoming an officer, indecent acts and dereliction of duty.

Major Erica Austin, a military court spokeswoman, confirmed the deal.

Meester was expected to enter a plea Tuesday, the day his court-martial was scheduled to begin.

An 18-year-old freshman from Pennsylvania who was in the dorm room has said she passed out and awoke as Meester raped her, but defense attorneys say she never told him to stop and did not resist after drinking at least six shots of tequila.

She was one of scores of women who came forward to say they had been raped by fellow cadets and had sometimes been punished or ignored by their superiors.

Meester left the academy and is attending a university in Florida. Air Force Secretary James Roche declined his request to be allowed to resign from the service rather than face a court-martial.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-06-08-cadet-rape_x.htm

Start Here
If you want to apply, start by allowing enough time for the process. Classes start each July, so it’s best to apply the preceding summer to allow enough time to complete the entire admissions process.

Next, consider whether you meet the basic eligibility requirements. Those who have achieved SAT scores greater than 1000 or ACT composite score of 20 or higher, and achieved average grades or better in high school are especially encouraged to apply.

Second, as a Soldier you must be recommended by your company or lowest-level unit commander (click here for a commander's endorsement). While this endorsement constitutes a nomination, Soldiers are also strongly encouraged to obtain additional nominations from your congressional nomination sources.

If by chance you are academically disqualified, as a Soldier you will be automatically considered for admission to the United States Military Academy Preparatory School (USMAPS). You may later be considered for admission to West Point.

http://admissions.usma.edu/pros_cadets_soldiers.html

United States

The United States Army, Coast Guard and Air Force use the term "cadet" for officer candidates in the Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) and for students at the United States Military Academy, United States Coast Guard Academy and United States Air Force Academy. Members under the age of 17 in the Civil Air Patrol are also addressed as cadet, but are civilians. The term "officer candidate" or "officer trainee" is generally used for officer candidates who are seeking their commission by means other than ROTC or a military academy, such as through Officer Candidate School (OCS) or Air Force Officer Training School (OTS). The United States Navy uses the rank of "midshipman" for students in the Reserve Officer Training Corps, United States Merchant Marine Academy or United States Naval Academy, and the term "officer candidate" for others seeking a commission as an officer. The term "cadet" may also be used generally to refer to students at a private military academy, or members of a youth group associated with the military who are receiving preliminary training with the intention of joining the military, sometimes at a younger age than they would be able to do otherwise.

Officer cadets are generally paid below the standard pay rates for junior officers, but receive some of the rights and responsibilities of a junior officer during their training. Officer cadets, trainees, and midshipmen are considered Geneva Conventions Category III personnel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officer_Cadet#United_States

They are not just students.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/15/2012 8:20:46 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

lucylastic
Im just waiting for the "suggestion" that all the male rapes are reportedly caused by women.


It's coming Lucy..... just as soon as they run out of red herrings such as blaming "feminazis" or 'male biology'or querying the stats or "it's not the military it's the military academies" or whatever else is dreamt up to avoid addressing the fact that most rapes are carried out by men. There's always mother-blame theories to fall back onto ......

The silence of most male posters here (with several notable and creditworthy exceptions) on the issue of why so many males are sexually assaulted in the military is significant. Is this a consequence of 'male biology'? Or "feminazis"? Or a statistical error? Or only an isolated issue for military academies only? Puh-leeeease!

Why are so many men so reluctant to address the possibility that there could be something in the way masculinity is constructed and reproduced in our societies that opens the door to rape? The cynical answer is that to accept this possibility would mean accepting some responsibility for changing whatever flaws can be identified, and that too many men are too attached to the privileges that accompany masculinity in our societies to be bothered.

I would love to be persuaded that the cynical answer is inappropriate in this instance ........

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 3:01:48 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		It`s insulting for trotta to insinuate that men are expected to be rapists, if they`re in our military......Talk about a race to the bottom.....How about lifting the debate/issue?


Seems to me that some cons over compensate for their own upset over social progress/women`s rights, by being as vicious as possible, whenever possible.


You`ll never hear one of these angry-cons apply this ugly logic to themselves or their own families, though.


It`s usually some poor average American who gets thrown under the bus.But I guess they should expect it.


One would almost think these mouth-breathers didn`t have moms or sisters or daughters or wives.


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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 3:07:37 AM   
JanahX


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Status: offline 		or that they are born with very tiny ding-dings.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 4:11:53 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Why are so many men so reluctant to address the possibility that there could be something in the way masculinity is constructed and reproduced in our societies that opens the door to rape?


For one thing, I'd hazard a guess that your average Joe Schmo who rapes wouldn't even be able to construct a sentence like that, Tweaks. ;-)


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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 5:31:51 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBigDog


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBigDog

This is just more lies being told by misandrists who also naturally hate our soldiers. Their trying to make soldiers out to be rapists but that woman on Fox is right. You put men in situations like that and then you put these women who are really pawns of feminists and you say to them "You'll be a pioneer and a hero if you just go out and do this." Well what do they expect to happen? What benefit was their ever to putting women in the military in the first place? None. It's no surprise that this is all happening under the watch of the black Muslim who wants to destroy the military anyway. It's time someone did something about this.

Got a shred of evidence to back this up or is it more bullshit?


I suggest you watch the personal ad homenam style attacks against users and try to move the conversation forward.


In other words you don't have any evidence to back this up. So how is posting bullshit moving the conversation forward?

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 5:40:03 AM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Good post Owner59. Leaving aside the vacuous and ignorant attempts to blame "feminists" and "feminazis" for rape, not too many people have been concerned with why these rapes are occurring.

Could the origins partly lie in the mentality that designates some women as "dorm sluts/dorm hos/field mattresses" for the crime of enjoying sex? While no gender or sexuality has a monopoly on rape, dehumanising women and reducing women to little more than cum buckets through vile designations such as the above is one step down a road that no sane person should ever travel.
Uh, you want  to change human nature? The historical term is "camp followers", and they're been a feature of armies since there were armies - think about it: lot's of horny guys with money? Nobody "does" it to them, anymore than anybody "made you" a submissive, they're going to be there no matter what you call them and that is in reference to a very specific group: they're not prostitutes, they like sex with guys, usually a lot of different guys, and they are generally treated rather well since nobody other than a few disgruntled bible thumpers seems to find this objectionable. Gotta call them something, we had one for a while, Connie the Cum Queen, so it goes.

And, as I said, there are plenty of servicewomen, and they get just as horny as the guys, military life is very stressful and unstable, it's hell on relationships, so there's a lot of fooling around, 'cause that's about all you have time for when you're working 12 on, 12 off, 7 days a week, plus watches, and then going on detachment for months at a time, you could be halfway around the world in 48  hours - and when you get there, there will be... prostitutes, camp followers, and horny WAVES!

I never saw a a problem myself, but that was a long time ago, most of the women were at training bases, and there were as many White Knights as lechers. They had their own ship and a base in the Caribbean, they weren't part of ships company in the regular fleet, and what went on in ships company is anybodies guess - those guys live in the bowels of the ship, some of them never come up, and when they do, they're literally Black from head to toe from the the oil, it doesn't scrub off easily, it's impregnated in their skin, they don't even go on liberty, and nobody else goes down there.

My Squadron might have been different, it was one of the very first F/A-18 Squadrons, and we were all hand selected for our high ASVAB scores, and what goes on in the ground services I have no idea - boot camp is not finishing school, and even among our hand picked group there were plenty of guys with rudimentary social skills.

Throw in competition, jealousy - of course it's a recipe for disaster, shit's gonna happen, but it seems to me the situation has deteriorated rather suddenly, apparently starting back in 2006 or a little before - what has happened?

If I had to guess, it would be related to politicizing the military, the Merc groups that have swelled ranks since the Iraq war started recruit from active military, and there are no doubt ties between these mostly right wing Merc outfits and active duty non-coms and officers, that is going to have an effect on attitudes, count in it.






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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 5:45:43 AM   
xssve


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Status: offline 		By all accounts, morale started taking a nosedive at some point during the occupation- perpetual war is a very bad idea, that's straight out of Sun Tzu.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 6:22:49 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

You put men in situations like that and then you put these women who are really pawns of feminists and you say to them "You'll be a pioneer and a hero if you just go out and do this." Well what do they expect to happen? What benefit was their ever to putting women in the military in the first place? None.


My Dad, whose service in the USAF influenced my decision to enlist, will be interested to hear that he is a feminist and I am a pawn of such

Military Women Veterans

From the American Revolution to Panama, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq , women have served in some way in every conflict. Not that they were legal in the early days. History tells us that thirty three thousand women served in World War One and almost 500,000 took part in World War Two. During the Korean era 120,000 women were in uniform and seven thousand were deployed in theater during Viet Nam. During Desert Storm seven per cent of the total U.S. forces deployed were women - over forty thousand of them. On these pages you will find the history and accomplishments of those women who have served this country - voluntarily - since it's beginning.

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 6:26:03 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		All that verbiage xxsve and you succeeded in totally avoiding the question of why rapes occur and the fact that most rapes are carried out by males...... well done! It took a mighty effort to do that.

Would you like some tutoring on mother blame theories?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/16/2012 6:28:59 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 6:48:09 AM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

All that verbiage xxsve and you succeeded in totally avoiding the question of why rapes occur and the fact that most rapes are carried out by males...... well done! It took a mighty effort to do that.

Would you like some tutoring on mother blame theories?
What are you babbling about? The military has very explicit restrictions on who can do what to whom, there is zero tolerance for racism, sexism, etc., that's policy, enforceable by military law - this signifies a breakdown in military discipline - e.g., if it's higher ranking officers doing it, that's at minimum, fraternization, which is normally dealt with rather severely precisely because it undermines discipline and morale, favoritism, etc., it has nothing to do with mothers, I'd like to see where I implied it was, it's a discipline problem, somebody is not doing their job - a lot of somebodies apparently, it's symptomatic of a breakdown in military discipline, and it would behoove us to know why since it cannot possibly not be having a negative effect on readiness.

And sorry, that's how the military prioritizes things, it's not Bryn Mawr - you're there for one thing and one thing only, the rest is incidental - i.e., even if a guy gets raped, he's still expected to muster and perform his duties in a military manner, or somebody will be sent to drag him in and make him do it - he isn't excused to cry in bed all day, however shocking you think that might be, that's how it is, and that isn't going to change, that's why they call it military discipline, it's not optional.

In this case, treating the symptoms isn't going to work if the root problem is not addressed.

< Message edited by xssve -- 2/16/2012 6:55:28 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Liz Trotta On Women Raped In Military: 'What Did Th... - 2/16/2012 6:55:02 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		That is great in theory xx, but the reality is, say; General Michael Mayhem rapes Major Priscilla Phatass and she blows the whistle, the ranks will close upstairs and downstairs and it is her career at grevious risk.

And that goes for all ranks in the military.

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