What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (Full Version)

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missingtouch -> What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:25:03 PM)

I had this sent to me today from a Dom asking my thoughts. This is new to me. SO what is your take on this..

SAMPLE CONTRACT

This contract dated (day) of (month), 20(yr) is the complete and entire agreement between the signatories. I _ (Dom) , being of sound mind and body, hereinafter referred to as "Dom" and (sub/slave) , being of sound mind and body, hereinafter referred to as "sub"("slave"). The terms of this agreement will begin on (day) of (month), 20(yr) at (time) a.m./p.m. and will remain in effect for a period of (duration) month(s)(year(s) ending on (day) of (month), 20(yr) at (time) a.m./p.m. This contract shall also become null and void immediately upon request of the injured party following any material breach of the contract. Should the injured party agree to continue with the contract following any material breach, the broken clause shall still remain in effect for the remaining terms of the contract.

DOM

Dom shall be responsible for keeping sub/slave safe at all times.
Dom will not allow or make sub/slave scene with any minors or animals at any time.
Dom will do everything within His power to train, educate, instruct, shape and mold sub into best sub/slave possible.
Dom will receive pleasure from the activities outlined in clause 3 above.
Dom shall pick out the entire wardrobe of sub/slave when they are going out in public, however, Dom may instruct sub/slave to pick out said wardrobe and punish sub/slave for selecting an inappropriate outfit after sub/slave has received proper training on appropriate outfits for public display.
Dom shall set up a financial account for sub/slave in order to allow sub/slave to have funds to start over shall Dom and sub/slave decide to go their separate ways for whatever reason. Should the sub/slave materially breach this contract and Dom decides that this contract then becomes null and void these funds will not be made available to sub/slave. This will consist of ten percent of any and all revenue that sub/slave generates while working outside the home. Said account shall require two signatures to withdraw funds.
Dom will pay all bills from the pooled revenue of Dom and sub/slave.
Dom shall read sub/slave's journal on a regular basis and agrees to not punish sub/slave for anything posted therein
Dom shall respect and honor the invocation of the safe word (______) by sub/slave.
Dom will stretch sub/slave's limits to help sub/slave grow in the life and position.
Dom will respect all hard limits of sub/slave as follows - no minors, no animals, no scat. (List whatever is appropriate.)
Dom shall look for female partner(s) for Dom and/or sub/slave to scene with. This scene is to occur a minimum of once every three months during the duration of this contract. If partner is to just scene with sub/slave, Dom will be present to watch. Dom may have sexual contact (penile penetration) with both subs/slaves during these scenes.
Dom agrees to work with sub/slave on any new interests that sub/slave discovers.
Whereas both parties will be working outside the home, Dom and sub/slave shall share in housework as enumerated by Dom.
Dom shall inform sub/slave the reason for any punishment. Periodically during the punishment Dom will remind sub/slave the reason for the punishment although that can come from the sub/slave in the form of "Why are you being punished?" with an appropriate response from the sub/slave.
Whereas Dom believes that family is important Dom will not keep sub/slave from staying in touch with their family and will not unreasonably withhold trips for sub/slave to visit their family.
Should the Dom allow the sub/slave to scene with anyone the Dom shall be present during the entire scene in order to assure that the sub/slave is unharmed and not forced to do anything on sub/slaves hard limit list.


SUB/SLAVE

Sub/slave agrees to maintain body by regular bathing and all other routine body care (e.g. brushing teeth, etc.).
Sub/slave shall maintain clean shaven genitalia, legs and arm pits at all times, unless instructed otherwise by Dom.
Sub/slave agrees to study BDSM on a daily basis, including but not limited to, searching the internet, reading books, attending BDSM munches and/or other BDSM activities..
Sub/slave shall journal daily including but not limited to - thoughts, concerns, what was learned and possible new interests to explore.
Sub/slave agrees to accept any permanent mark that Dom desires, anywhere on their body, indicating ownership by Dom.
Sub/slave shall bring and show honor and respect to Dom at all times.
Sub/slave agrees to never remove ownership collar at any time.
Sub/slave shall sit at the right foot of the Dom, whenever Dom is sitting, whenever and wherever feasible.
Sub/slave is not to wear any underwear unless necessary.
Sub/slave will sleep naked.
Sub/slave shall make themselves available for use by Dom in anyway Dom desires at anytime Dom desires whenever feasible, within the terms of this contract.
Sub/slave shall not have any sexual contact at any time without permission from Dom.
Sub/slave shall not orgasm without permission from Dom.
Sub/slave shall not invoke the safe word unless absolutely necessary.
Sub/slave agrees to look for and find female partner(s) for Dom and/or sub to scene with a minimum of every three months for the duration of this contract. If found partner is to only scene with sub, Dom shall be present to watch. Dom may have sexual intercourse (penile penetration) with both subs/slaves during these scenes. While this is a goal, due to the nature of this, failure to accomplish is not cause for termination of this contract, but will result in punishment of sub/slave.
Sub/slave agrees to allow Dom to scene with others as long as there is no penile penetration.
Sub/slave agrees to service in anyway, within the terms of this contract, anybody Dom desires. Dom will be present at all times during these activities to make sure that sub/slave is safe.
If Dom and sub/slave are present at an event and sub witnesses something they desire to experience Dom will not unreasonably withhold permission of sub/slave to participate.
Should Dom and sub/slave find a mutually agreeable partner(s) who fits into the family dynamics well, sub/slave agrees to accept said partner(s) into the family. Dom, sub and potential new partner(s) will sit down together to draft a mutually acceptable contract between all parties involved. The new contract may or may not replace this contract.
Sub/slave shall count each stroke when being punished by flogging, caning, etc. and also must thank Dom following each stroke.
These terms are mutually agreed to by the affixing of the respective signatures below.

______(Dom)______ ___/__/___ (sub/slave) ___/___/____
(Dom's signature) (date) (sub/slave signature) (date)



Iamsemisweet -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:33:39 PM)

If the purpose of a contract is to have a legally enforceable document, this one is a big FAIL.  However, if the purpose for this particular document is to clarify your roles as to each other, it isn't bad.

I was disturbed by this though:
Dom shall set up a financial account for sub/slave in order to allow sub/slave to have funds to start over shall Dom and sub/slave decide to go their separate ways for whatever reason. Should the sub/slave materially breach this contract and Dom decides that this contract then becomes null and void these funds will not be made available to sub/slave. This will consist of ten percent of any and all revenue that sub/slave generates while working outside the home. Said account shall require two signatures to withdraw funds.
Dom will pay all bills from the pooled revenue of Dom and sub/slave.

TRANSLATION:  Dom will set up on account and deposit 10 percent of what sub/slave earns in it.  She gets the money if the relationship goes sour, UNLESS Dom doesn't feel like giving it to her. 



lizi -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:34:32 PM)

Are you interested in the Dom who sent it? Does the idea of doing a contract with someone float your boat?

The Dom's list I found pretty good. The submissive's I wouldn't sign as it covers a lot of territory I am not interested in.

For myself a contract in general wouldn't be something I'd ask for, but if someone I was serious about wanted one I'd do it for him as long as it didn't delve too far into micromanagement as that wouldn't fit me very well.

Edit: Oh snap, I didn't see the part about the money in the Dom's part. That's what I get for being careless...yeah, that's not ok. Thanks for pointing that out IASS. And there's this....she supposedly gets to keep 10% of her earnings with two signatures on the account for withdrawals, the two of them pool the rest together to pay bills. What happens to the rest of her money? Why does he seemingly get to theoretically keep the rest of his after the bill paying and not just 10%? Smells fishy.



hangemhigh1953 -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:41:13 PM)

The part about not wanting them to use the safe word is rather troubling. Also, some of those conditions are pretty specific, not to mention extreme. Plus if some guy just sent that to you, that is ridiculous. There's a period of getting to know each other and developing trust before any contracts or commitments come into play.

Behind all the legalese in that contract, it is clearly very wanky and comes from fantasy, not reality.



DarkSteven -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:41:43 PM)

Hi there!  Another Coloradoan.  Welcome to collarme!

First thing to understand is that a Dom/sub contract cannot be legally enforced.  It is an excellent way of ensuring that mutual understanding is achieved, but that's it.

With that out of the way, the next question is, is this what you want?  Can you live with it? If not, it is your responsibility to either modify it to what you can live with, or refuse it altogether.  And I'd suggest a trial period of a couple of weeks to try it out before committing to any serious length of time.

Specific points:

1. You only get 10% of what you earn?  Food and housing should burn up maybe 50%-80% max of what you earn, and I disagree that he gets to keep the money if he feels you breached the contract.  I'd hold out for more, and since you earned it - you get to keep it.
2. Both Dom and sub are responsible to look for a NSA female fuck buddy, and contract requires said session to occur a minimum of every quarter.  Strike this.  It's likely not gonna happen, both parties are responsible, and no penalties are specified when it doesn't happen.
3. That bit about him not interfering with your family is very good.  Add in your friends as well.
4. Scratch that bit about accepting his mark.  ONLY if you're agreeing to a permanent relationship, nothing under some contractual time.
5. You're supposed to fuck anyone he tells you to.  Are you okay with that? 

On the whole, not that bad.  How do you feel about being governed by a contract?



lizi -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:43:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hangemhigh1953

The part about not wanting them to use the safe word is rather troubling. Also, some of those conditions are pretty specific, not to mention extreme. Plus if some guy just sent that to you, that is ridiculous. There's a period of getting to know each other and developing trust before any contracts or commitments come into play.

Behind all the legalese in that contract, it is clearly very wanky and comes from fantasy, not reality.


If you want to see wanky you should have seen the magnum opus from this guy who wanted his woman to do everything in the relationship, around the house, plus wear colored bracelets to signify when she was menstruating or having bowel problems. That one still makes me laugh.



SpiritedRadiance -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:44:13 PM)

I wouldnt sign it because it would violate several of my limits, and i would tell the dom in question to kindly go back to his jack off world...

My money is just that mine, and until marriage, that money stays where it belongs

I am sexually monogamous, to violate this by sleeping with another party is requesting me to end the relationship (see im all growed up, i didnt even threaten harm to his person that time)



Iamsemisweet -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:44:58 PM)

Not just fishy, Lizi.  It is a royal rip off, unless her income is pretty minimal.  She hands over her pay check, he pays the bills and apparently has discretion to use the rest of the money as he sees fit, except for 10 percent of HER money, which goes into an account that she MAY get back IF he feels like while they are in the midst of a break up.  Right.  That's going to happen.



Iamsemisweet -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:46:58 PM)

I remember that!  It was hilarious.

I will say this, though, OP.  At least the Dom is telling you his expectations up front, instead of ensnaring you in a relationship and THEN announcing that you are supposed to hand over your paycheck.  Same with the non financial aspects.  No surprises is a good thing.
quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi


If you want to see wanky you should have seen the magnum opus from this guy who wanted his woman to do everything in the relationship, around the house, plus wear colored bracelets to signify when she was menstruating or having bowel problems. That one still makes me laugh.



OsideGirl -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:48:26 PM)

I've seen it done before. It's not enforceable, but it lays out expectations.

A few things jump out at me:

1) Unless you know someone pretty well, I wouldn't be trusting them with my finances.

2) I wouldn't really recommend getting a tattoo or mark of someone you don't know well and have some history with.

3) I dislike that he gets to do whatever he wants as long as it doesn't involve sex.

4) Never removing the collar may be unrealistic. Jobs, medical procedures, family, etc

5) finding a woman every 3 months and that being responsibility of the sub is delusional

6) I would draw the line at being shared with others...and unless you trust this guy, it's probably not a good idea.

7) I notice he doesn't mention what happens if you get pregnant.

8) The Dom keeping YOUR money as a penalty is just plain wrong.



lizi -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:49:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Not just fishy, Lizi.  It is a royal rip off, unless her income is pretty minimal.  She hands over her pay check, he pays the bills and apparently has discretion to use the rest of the money as he sees fit, except for 10 percent of HER money, which goes into an account that she MAY get back IF he feels like while they are in the midst of a break up.  Right.  That's going to happen.


I completely agree that this is how it would go down but I don't know the guy or their situation and I was trying (really hard) not to make assumptions. If it were me however, there is no way in hell I'd be stupid enough to fall for it as it is described here. It's sad to me how many women don't watch out over what they have financially and get ripped off, but I'm also trying not to make out the partner to be a villain without more proof. In general, I just wish more people would watch out for themselves and their money and not trust blindly. They need to be responsible for themselves.



Madame4a -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:53:16 PM)

Have you ever met the guy? I wouldn't sign your money and life away to someone you've not met and gotten to know really well, face to face. Perhaps sitting down and talking through some issues would be better.. but hey, that's usually just me that thinks that.

In the end, the contract is not legally enforceable and so not really worth much. If you need to sign a piece of paper to keep your word, you might want to rethink. Also I'd rethink the person I'm engaging with.

Its not at all bad to put out, very clearly, what you want in your relationship and find out what the other party wants/expects -- sometimes seeing things on paper is much more helpful.

What do you know about this person?



VerySincere -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 5:53:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Hi there!  Another Coloradoan.  Welcome to collarme!

First thing to understand is that a Dom/sub contract cannot be legally enforced.  It is an excellent way of ensuring that mutual understanding is achieved, but that's it.

With that out of the way, the next question is, is this what you want?  Can you live with it? If not, it is your responsibility to either modify it to what you can live with, or refuse it altogether.  And I'd suggest a trial period of a couple of weeks to try it out before committing to any serious length of time.

Specific points:

1. You only get 10% of what you earn?  Food and housing should burn up maybe 50%-80% max of what you earn, and I disagree that he gets to keep the money if he feels you breached the contract.  I'd hold out for more, and since you earned it - you get to keep it.
2. Both Dom and sub are responsible to look for a NSA female fuck buddy, and contract requires said session to occur a minimum of every quarter.  Strike this.  It's likely not gonna happen, both parties are responsible, and no penalties are specified when it doesn't happen.
3. That bit about him not interfering with your family is very good.  Add in your friends as well.
4. Scratch that bit about accepting his mark.  ONLY if you're agreeing to a permanent relationship, nothing under some contractual time.
5. You're supposed to fuck anyone he tells you to.  Are you okay with that? 

On the whole, not that bad.  How do you feel about being governed by a contract?




While I am not from Colorado ... [;)] ... I do agree with these comments, which are similar to those earlier in this post.

Yes, I am concerned about the finanical aspects, knowing that is a huge issue regardless of D/s and vanilla.

It could also impact your retirement .... a consideration that may mean little today, but gets bigger as you grow older.

Yet, it really is all about your relationship.

Would you marry this Dom? In vanilla life?

If so ... than you are basically (in its purest sense) considering marriage, without the legal protections, questionable as those may be.

This I would do too. But ..

I would strive to ensure my future was not blow away on a relationship that went no where, too!

Good luck ...







ladynlord -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 6:06:04 PM)


quote:

TRANSLATION:  Dom will set up on account and deposit 10 percent of what sub/slave earns in it.  She gets the money if the relationship goes sour, UNLESS Dom doesn't feel like giving it to her. 


That is how I read it. And the Dom decides what is a material breach...so he gets to be a party litigant AND be the judge.

"Sub/slave agrees to accept any permanent mark that Dom desires, anywhere on their body, indicating ownership by Dom." ----Are you ready to live life with a big red "S" tat on your forehead? What will your next Dom think of that when this Dom decides that a material breach has occured, you know, like wearing underwear? (Or I might just be having a bad day and being snarky!)

There can be a benefit to writing down everyone's expectations. But like ISS pointed out, it has NO legal effect. IF you like it in writing, then go with your instincts. Besides, it is only going to be honoured if the both of you honour it!



MissImmortalPain -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 6:12:58 PM)

You all must have gotten further into this "contract" than I did before your flags started going off because I only got at far as the first "dom" part. This .....
quote:

Dom shall be responsible for keeping sub/slave safe at all times.
before my brain said, Hey if I was a sub I woud take someone up on that...then I would trip down his stairs and sue him for breach of contract. How on earth does one promise to keep another person safe at all times? That is if you could enforce this contract...which, yes, I know you can't...but hey if you could it would be a great scam for a "sub" to work on.

*edit* I hate spelling :)



DesFIP -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 6:17:27 PM)

The problem here is that he isn't making any material promises. He isn't agreeing to do anything you want.

Moreover, you don't start off with a contract when you don't know the person. The two of you write it together after you've been dating for a while and want to deepen the relationship.

And this bit of him taking all your money is a red flag. You don't have car insurance payments? You don't get to buy lunch or a birthday present for your niece? Not to mention that agreeing to move in immediately is just a really icky thought.

The fact that he thinks this is how you form a relationship says to me that he isn't capable of having one. Because people start by dating and move gradually into the relationship that works for them. Which btw doesn't include immediately opening it up to sex with others before you've made the core relationship work.



SailingBum -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 6:54:32 PM)

Uh help me out here... What is the advantage of signing a non enforceable contract??? I can just as easily explain to a girl my expectations without have a girl sign them. It's as if he is saying your to stupid to remember the important points by having to write them down.

For example My girl knows how I like my coffee, please me, among other things you get the idea. Nope no contract required. I like that I don't have to cover each and every detail much less write it out.

BadOne



CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 6:57:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: missingtouch

SO what is your take on this..



I am wondering why any Dom would need to take a poll on his sample contract, lol. (I doubt he went through all that work just to ask one person her opinion. Especially someone he has invested no time getting to know first.)

Can you tell that I don't use them...? I'm a great believer in talking things out. An opinion poll on a contract, arriving in my mail from a stranger, would have made me ROFLMAO, mkay? I would also worry if it was done to see if any vulnerable newbie was pushed into sub frenzy by it and taken advantage of.

IMO, putting money aside as a safety net for a sub if the relationship goes south is a given, not something to be taken away over a whim. A safety net is a safety net. Period.

I wonder what is so special about his not sticking his dick into others, is this supposed to be special? Oral can also give herpes and other STDs. I didn't see any part of his contract that covered STD protection or setting limits on how many people you would have to become fluid bonded with.

Since he is not your potential Dom, just some nameless someone who asked you an opinion on a contract (that is not legally binding), why not just tell him it was interesting and you wish him luck in his search... Contracts can be hawt and make someone feel legally owned and in service if they don't know any better, other than that they might be helpful on spelling out each person's role. So can nice long talks during maintenance spanks. [;)]

Contracts. Some people use them, some don't. There is no one twue way to do this...if some people like these things and you don't...give it a big ole raspberry.



Madame4a -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 7:01:44 PM)

by the way.. I just looked at your profile.. I'm going to guess you're a bit new to all this... you have a very fantasized vision of
submissive... you might want to get some real practical experience before signing your life away...



dianddra -> RE: What Do You all think about a Submissive and a Dom entering into a contract? (2/15/2012 7:54:48 PM)

who is going to take out the trash?



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