RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician???

RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

vincentML -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 5:05:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML "After the Chinese defeat in the First Opium War (1839-42), Hong Kong was ceded to Britain in 1842 under the Treaty of Nanking. Britain was granted a perpetual lease on the Kowloon Peninsula under the 1860 Convention of Beijing, which formally ended hostilities in the Second Opium War (1856-58). The United Kingdom, concerned that Hong Kong could not be defended unless surrounding areas also were under British control, executed a 99-year lease of the New Territories in 1898, significantly expanding the size of the Hong Kong colony." Under what stretch of imagination was a lease imposed on Britain by China in 1898? You held it in perpetuity by force of arms in the Opium Wars. I am surprised that you so easily deny the colonial conquests of the Empire. But then there are many Americans who deny we are a world empire today. Amazing how people can turn a blind eye to the adventures of their own country. I am not denying anything, just pointing out the facts which you prefer to ignore. Your own post includes the word lease and the events of 1898 were not the same as those of 40 years earlier. Quite similar in fact as both events occurred with the barrel of a gun pointed at China's head.

Fightdirecto -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 6:41:51 AM)
Actors, musicians and professional athletes get better press coverage for their statements outside their area of professional expertise than a non-celebrity who might actually be an expert on the subject. But who's to blame? IMO, the general public who seems to think that if you record a song or play a role in a film or TV show or score the winning goal in a World Cup soccer game, you're somehow special and somehow better than the average person. I've spent most of my life in the performing arts and have seen it often. My celebrity co-workers are often treated like oracles and possessors of great universal knowledge by their fans and the media. It's a sad fact of life.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 7:56:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto Actors, musicians and professional athletes get better press coverage for their statements outside their area of professional expertise than a non-celebrity who might actually be an expert on the subject. But who's to blame? IMO, the general public who seems to think that if you record a song or play a role in a film or TV show or score the winning goal in a World Cup soccer game, you're somehow special and somehow better than the average person. I've spent most of my life in the performing arts and have seen it often. My celebrity co-workers are often treated like oracles and possessors of great universal knowledge by their fans and the media. It's a sad fact of life. I do agree that there is a celebrity effect that goes on. But I believe it really only effects how much media coverage an issue gets. I don't believe it has a huge impact on creating a completely blind following on the part of the fan base. But here is the thing. If I were to suddenly gain celebrity status, I would absolutely use the fact that I had the ear of the public to publicize my own political and environmental and cultural agenda. And I'm not sure why one should be faulted for that. For every fan that might follow blindly, there are still plenty of free-thinking fans and of course all of the non-fans, who can still argue the opposing viewpoint. But free speech entitles Penn to make his statement (rightly or wrongly), and to allow the debate to go on. Even the biggest celebrity does not have 100% fan loyalty and support for what they do. Plenty of fans are capable of criticizing someone whose art they love, for other failings that they see that they have. Dave Mustaine has endorsed Santorum. I'm sure some of his fans are blindly following. But others surely have to be scratching their heads in a kind of surreal "wtf" moment (excuse my language, but it seems appropriate). And, oddly, sometimes when celebrities lend their voice to particular causes, it can ultimately hurt the overall cause. Not to mention celebrities who include their viewpoint in their art. One example, Peter Gabriel's "Biko". A message will absolutely gain a wider audience when espoused by a celebrity - particularly if they choose to incorporate into their art. And should they be faulted for that? Regardless, Penn, Mustaine, Gabriel and others are free to say whatever they want to say. No media outlet is going to print my opinion on anything. But I don't begrudge the fact that celebrities, due to their being in the public eye, will get noticed for everything that they say or do, both in their art, and outside of it. That is precisely what celebrity, and living in the public eye, means. Quite frankly, I'm thankful to be able to lead a private life.

vincentML -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 10:04:19 AM)
quote: I do agree that there is a celebrity effect that goes on. But I believe it really only effects how much media coverage an issue gets. I don't believe it has a huge impact on creating a completely blind following on the part of the fan base. I think you're quite right, ftp. May a suggest a different dynamic? What I observed between Penn and the Media in 2003 (in retrospect sadly) and now with his support for Argentina and additionally for Chavez? IMO, Penn is a man of conscience who feels compelled to take unpopular causes and speak out against the received wisdom, against the orthodoxy. The Media storm is of a nature to assault his character and consequently rally the populous to the side of Authority, pointing out another lefty celebrity trying to turn us common folk away from the 'truth' and righteousness of our nation's actions. OMG! The cajones he displayed in the face of the runup to the attack against Iraq. Penn's great crime is that he dares to shout out the lack of clothing on the Emperor.

Winterapple -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 10:53:10 AM)
FR Free Nelson Mandela. The Special AKA Sun City(Ain't Gonna Play). Artists United Against Apartheid The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. Gil Scott-Heron Okie from Muskogee. Merle Haggard Change is Gonna Come. Sam Cooke You Haven't Done Nothin. Stevie Wonder Say It Loud (I'm Black and I'm Proud). James Brown What's Goin On? Marvin Gaye Freddy's Dead. Curtis Mayfield Give Peace A Chance. Plastic Ono Band Working Class Hero. John Lennon This Land is Your Land. Woody Guthrie War. Edwinn Starr Strange Fruit. Billie Holiday Diamonds from Sierra Leone. Kanya West Idioteque. Radiohead Let's Impeach the President. Neil Young A Hard Rains A Gonna Fall, Maggies Farm, Masters of War, The Death of Emmett Teal. Bob Dylan Fight the Power. Public Enemy Sunday Bloody Sunday. U2 Meat is Murder. The Smiths Fuck the Police. NWA Movies with political themes and/or social issues: Z, Missing, Norma Rae, Silkwood, The China Syndrome, Hotel Rwanda, Paths of Glory, Dr Strangelove, The Great Dictator, The Lives of Others, Do the Right Thing, Casablanca, Milk, Persepolis, Philadelphia, Dead Man Walking, In the Name of the Father Books, plays and writings: The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, Animal Farm, 1984, Darkness at Noon, To Kill a Mockingbird, Les Miserables, Native Son, The Invisible Man, The Crucible, The Jungle, Beloved, The Ballad of Reading Gaol, Germinal. Zola risked ruin with his letter to the editor, J'accuse. You don't have to be a academic or a politician to have an opinion and you certainly don't have to be either of those things to express your opinion. Artists and performers have a contribution to make to. Celebrity culture grouse, grouse, why do people listen to celebrities grouse, grouse, why do people care when celebrities die, grouse, grouse. Most of it is just fodder and filler. Filter it and move on.

Winterapple -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 10:54:22 AM)
The Death of Emmett Till not Teal, spellchecker.

PeonForHer -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 11:53:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto Actors, musicians and professional athletes get better press coverage for their statements outside their area of professional expertise than a non-celebrity who might actually be an expert on the subject. But who's to blame? IMO, the general public who seems to think that if you record a song or play a role in a film or TV show or score the winning goal in a World Cup soccer game, you're somehow special and somehow better than the average person. I've spent most of my life in the performing arts and have seen it often. My celebrity co-workers are often treated like oracles and possessors of great universal knowledge by their fans and the media. It's a sad fact of life. Well, it's no secret that we live in a celebrity culture. Everything that celebrities do and say is crucial because they're just much, much more important people than are the rest of us. It is the general public that's mostly to blame. My heart sinks whenever some actor opens his or her fatuous gob about the political world. It sinks even more when one of them actually manages to get him or herself elected. I use the present tense there - but, really, I gave up worrying about it after Arnie got elected. I mean, after that, who could care? But I also blame the journalists. They write crap, knowing that it's crap, and people gulp it all up as though it must be unbiased truth. I see no good reason at all why, if journalists shouldn't witter about politics, actors shouldn't either.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 1:02:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: I do agree that there is a celebrity effect that goes on. But I believe it really only effects how much media coverage an issue gets. I don't believe it has a huge impact on creating a completely blind following on the part of the fan base. I think you're quite right, ftp. May a suggest a different dynamic? What I observed between Penn and the Media in 2003 (in retrospect sadly) and now with his support for Argentina and additionally for Chavez? IMO, Penn is a man of conscience who feels compelled to take unpopular causes and speak out against the received wisdom, against the orthodoxy. The Media storm is of a nature to assault his character and consequently rally the populous to the side of Authority, pointing out another lefty celebrity trying to turn us common folk away from the 'truth' and righteousness of our nation's actions. OMG! The cajones he displayed in the face of the runup to the attack against Iraq. Penn's great crime is that he dares to shout out the lack of clothing on the Emperor. I'm glad people like Penn exist. Not because I agree with him all the time (although I really think he is a fine actor - one of the best of our generation), but because I think sometimes it is good for society at large to be confronted with the unpopular viewpoint. Freedom of speech means absolutely nothing if it doesn't protect the unpopular. No one is rushing to change anything because of Penn's statement. But to the extent that it prompts some debate and introspection on what ought to be done going forward, or whether any change is necessary, or what is tenable under current circumstances, I welcome it. Complacency is death to anything that matters. Simply because something has been done the same way since time immemorial and has been accepted by most people does not make it right. There are so many examples of this from history. At every step of history, we should be taking stock, and asking ourselves the difficult questions. It does not mean things always have to change - it just means we should be able to justify our actions at any point in time. Sometimes what was justifiable in the past becomes no longer justifiable. p.s. Winterapple, loved your list. Art is politics.

thompsonx -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 5:08:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx With the exception of alaska which part of the u.s. did we acquire without the force of arms or the threat there of? Louisiana purchase. Owned by spain but purchased from france????? U.S. sends a military expedition into a soverign nation...spain sends military expedition to intercept lewis and clark. Looks like force of arms to me. Gadsden purchase. The u.s. just finished the mexican american war and needed this piece of land for the completion of the southern pacific railroad. It was foisted onto mexico at the point of a gun and caused the president of mexico to loose his job. Purchase of the Virgin Islands from Denmark. Correct Red river Basin acquired by treaty from the UK in 1818 This resolution of land claims stems from the treaty of paris which ended the revolutionary war...so this was land taken in the revolutionary war. The boundries of which were set by the treaty of 1818. Midway atoll, Kingman Reef, Jarvis Island. Appropriated by the u.s. military. Wake Island, 1899 Appropriated by the u.s. military Northern Mariana Islands. Taken from japan in ww2 at the point of a gun.

Hillwilliam -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 6:07:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx With the exception of alaska which part of the u.s. did we acquire without the force of arms or the threat there of? Louisiana purchase. Owned by spain but purchased from france????? U.S. sends a military expedition into a soverign nation...spain sends military expedition to intercept lewis and clark. Looks like force of arms to me. Gadsden purchase. The u.s. just finished the mexican american war and needed this piece of land for the completion of the southern pacific railroad. It was foisted onto mexico at the point of a gun and caused the president of mexico to loose his job. Purchase of the Virgin Islands from Denmark. Correct Red river Basin acquired by treaty from the UK in 1818 This resolution of land claims stems from the treaty of paris which ended the revolutionary war...so this was land taken in the revolutionary war. The boundries of which were set by the treaty of 1818. Midway atoll, Kingman Reef, Jarvis Island. Appropriated by the u.s. military. Wake Island, 1899 Appropriated by the u.s. military Northern Mariana Islands. Taken from japan in ww2 at the point of a gun. Spain had no decent claim on louisiana. The Islands you claim were appropriated by the US military were UNINHABITED. Who are they pointing a fucking gun at? Gadsden purchase at the point of a gun? Why did they fucking BUY it instead of taking it. Unless you can back it up, I'm calling bullshit. No land was taken during the revolution west of the Mississippi. The Brits had some claims on the red river basin and needed money to fund their previous war against france. Same reason France sold us Louisiana to fund their war against England. Come up with something better than claims and bold print.

SternSkipper -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 8:43:03 PM)
quote: Sean Penn was never the same after Madonna sat on his face for 5 years. Shellfish Hep

SternSkipper -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 8:51:23 PM)
quote: I guess only "polititians" can voice an opinion.... God forbid Sidney Poitier and Harry Belafonte should have helped out when MLK asked them to....... they should have butted out. Or Gandhi.......he wasn`t a "politician"..............how dare he mind other people`s business...... There are a lot of actors who try to bring public attention to problems,George Clooney and his dad doing documentaries about Darfar......I bet money there`s some in folks in Sudan who think he should butt-out of their business.... http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/07/how-george-clooneys-satellite-group-identifying-mass-graves-sudan/39989/ "How George Clooney's Satellite Group Is Identifying Mass Graves in Sudan" Such a do-gooder.......... Dude... Mosta these cons are all frigged up cause they started boycotting Penn when they found out he wasn't really Jeff Spicoli. So anytime anybody hip does anything good they gotta have a cross burning on his lawn.

stellauk -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/18/2012 9:56:08 PM)
I wonder what Sean Penn would say on the issue of Shaker Aamer, a Brit who has been held without trial in Guantanamo Bay since mid-February 2002.

Fightdirecto -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/19/2012 7:47:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper Dude... Mosta these cons are all frigged up cause they started boycotting Penn when they found out he wasn't really Jeff Spicoli. So anytime anybody hip does anything good they gotta have a cross burning on his lawn. Agreed. Anybody remember all the hate directed toward the Dixie Chicks not that long ago?

slvemike4u -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/19/2012 8:16:23 AM)
I'm not reading this whole thread,so if this has been said before,forgive me The issue isn't with actors using their fame to push their agendas,the issue is with fools who allow someone whose only talent is to hit a mark and read their lines exert an out sized influence on their own positions. becoming famous does not in any way shape or form mean someone needs to muzzle themselves....but I can,and should lend their opinion only the weight that opinion merits based on the validity of said opinion ...not how good his last song or last movie was. should I use the latter criteria...I am an idiot,not the actor/singer

SternSkipper -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/19/2012 11:33:22 AM)
quote: I wonder what Sean Penn would say on the issue of Shaker Aamer, a Brit who has been held without trial in Guantanamo Bay since mid-February 2002. I dismiss the notion that just because an American becomes internationally active that he in turn has to answer to Bush era potential violations of law. Where's the Haig's extradition papers to offer a trial of these guys picked up on foreign soil? Or maybe Sean would just encourage him to run for British Parliament like Bobby Sands.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/19/2012 2:42:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I'm not reading this whole thread,so if this has been said before,forgive me The issue isn't with actors using their fame to push their agendas,the issue is with fools who allow someone whose only talent is to hit a mark and read their lines exert an out sized influence on their own positions. becoming famous does not in any way shape or form mean someone needs to muzzle themselves....but I can,and should lend their opinion only the weight that opinion merits based on the validity of said opinion ...not how good his last song or last movie was. should I use the latter criteria...I am an idiot,not the actor/singer slvemike4u, I do agree with your viewpoint. The onus is still on all of us regular folk to sort out what has been said and determine if we agree or not. I am sure some blindly follow, but I like to think that any celebrity's fan base is still full of free-thinking people who can draw their own conclusions about things.

slvemike4u -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/19/2012 3:36:41 PM)
You will never go wrong agreeing with my viewpoint fucktoy,as a matter of fact,one can do far....far worse when one considers some of the other viewpoint blathered about here [:D]

Politesub53 -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/19/2012 4:01:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stellauk I wonder what Sean Penn would say on the issue of Shaker Aamer, a Brit who has been held without trial in Guantanamo Bay since mid-February 2002. Before throwing stones, lets not forget we have our own terror suspect, awaiting deportation to the US, who has been in custody since 2004.

vincentML -> RE: When did Sean Penn become a politician??? (2/19/2012 7:22:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I'm not reading this whole thread,so if this has been said before,forgive me The issue isn't with actors using their fame to push their agendas,the issue is with fools who allow someone whose only talent is to hit a mark and read their lines exert an out sized influence on their own positions. becoming famous does not in any way shape or form mean someone needs to muzzle themselves....but I can,and should lend their opinion only the weight that opinion merits based on the validity of said opinion ...not how good his last song or last movie was. should I use the latter criteria...I am an idiot,not the actor/singer I said it before, mike, I'll say it again briefly: Sean Penn earned his creds when he visited Baghdad and stood against the impending attack in 2003. Secondly, the dynamic that is being missed here is that the Media mostly denigrate celebs who protest Government Orthodoxy, and as they did in 2003 pimped for the government's war. Fills newspaper columns and cable tv shows.

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875