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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 5:17:16 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The underlying code base that substantiates the existence of God is stable and has been worked on by monks to debug it for a period now going on centuries and that work was in turn based on work that was carried out centuries before that. The code base of the Roman Catholic Church is extremely stable.

Regardless of whether or not anyone has been able to prove or disprove the existence of God is partially irrelevant. It is significant that the code base is stable.


I have no earthly idea what this means. Code base? And I went to Catholic school for 15 years.
He did the brown acid.


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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 5:43:51 AM   
MrBukani


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Status: offline 		I posted this in the twinsoul thread but it concerns this one just as much.

Why I try to define the real meaning of a word is this. If we cant agree on what a word means, we can hardly argue over the consequences the word might have.

Here's an example where it gets lost in translation.

This is the english definition: Jealousy is an emotion and typically refers to the negative thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety over an anticipated loss of something that the person values,

This is the dutch definition: A negative feeling caused because someone has something, you desire also.

In the english definition you need to have something because it says anticipated loss while in dutch you dont need to have it.

Hence in dutch I can be jealous of your car, but not in english cause I never had that car. So english, wich is the most modern language lost something in translation. Wich means you cannot use the word as it was intended. What's even more scary is that you lack something in your language to explain your emotions.

If we don't redefine words to their original meaning we are lost to logic.

Again I will try it simple without to many words.
Character, spirit, spark is something a person cannot change.
Soul, karma, personality is something you can change.
This is a rough draft of course, but it's a start.

Hypocrisy and double standards touch eachother on many levels.
But in my definition all hypocrisy is bad, while some double standards might be good.
So again maybe we should start by defining the word, agreeing on the basic meaning and we can go forward again?
Whats your definition of the word hypocrisy?

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 6:11:58 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		The problem with these notions of double standard and hypocrisy is they provide a very wide open door for self-deception because they can be whatever you simply dislike for whatever irrational reason you may have or whatever you do not understand.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 6:24:33 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		There is no difference between a double standard and hypocrisy. They are simply different terms for the same thing. It is easy to fool yourself by making arbitrary semantic distinctions by means of precising definitions. I encourage you work it out for yourself, but you will discover, if you manage to not find a way to deceive yourself, that you are working with something that is toxic.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 6:41:05 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		What happens to people when they get entrapped by a concept such as this? They or society to which they belong become suicidal in much the same way, as I explained, like a man who is dehydrated in the desert chasing after a mirage. The very act of living and breathing is an act of hypocrisy, a hypocritical refusal to give up, to have hope when objectively there is none. Damn objectivity! It matters to be alive. We just don't know why exactly. A living organism refuses to accept the facts.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 6:50:33 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		The rejection of hypocrisy with solidarity is to embrace death.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 6:51:02 AM   
MrBukani


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Status: offline 		"There is a distinction to be made between double standards and hypocrisy, which implies the stated or presumed acceptance of a single standard a person claims to hold himself or herself accountable to, but which, in practice, may be disregarded. Being hypocritical to the double-standard is then a positive example of hypocrisy as well."

This is the wiki double standard wich states there is a difference. I am not saying they are right in their assumption.
What I am claiming is there is a certain difference to any synonym otherwise we wouldnt have them.
Again if we can not agree on definitions of words all discussion becomes futile.
Is it so hard to define the true meaning?
Wouldnt it benefit all mankind?
To define the meaning of a word doesnt mean we cannot agree.
I have been askin for 20 years now to people, what is the difference between style and class.
Most people could not answer me from their own knowledge( and most were not dumb)
That means language is going downhill. That means more and more miscommunication, the mother of all fuck ups.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 7:42:54 AM   
MrBukani


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM


I am not claiming that it is wholesome. What I am saying is that people here seem to me at least somewhat obsessed with the topic and that wouldn't be healthy either. I concede that a point is being made that could be better appreciated by the world in general. Let's face it. Hypocrisy is evil, but so is the world.

Can Christians be hypocrites? Can a Atheist be a more wholesome neighbor compared to say an uncivilized Christian? Have all of my experiences with Christians been wonderful? No, I don't think so.

Some of these hypocrites may be brethren in disguise.


Okay I had to go back to find common ground.
You say hypocrisy is evil. So are you saying all hypocrisy is bad, yes or no?
Your point is I think, the levels of hypocrisy and that we all are affected in some way with it.
And are we obsessed pointing the finger at totally fucked up hypo's like Al Gore.
That's about the point you are trying to make right?

PS notice you say the world is evil? I would say society is. Although I do understand what you are saying and these are synonyms, there is a definite difference to these words.
We can hardly claim the earth is evil.
But the word world has many more meanings.
I will give one example I was always troubled with, yes you can laugh.
Santa Clause is the first lie all parents tell their children. I would not like to do that to my child. But I have to make a decision.
Do I spoil it for all other children cause my child will say he doesnt exist.
Do I spoil things for my kid cause he gets a lotta slack for telling the truth.
We all are brought up being told, not to lie.
But society kinda orders me to go along with the lie.
See my ittybitty prob with hypocrisy within society and curtsy.


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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 7:58:08 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		What you are talking about are differences in connotation. Knock yourself out. It is, however, important that you take the journey to see for yourself.

The difference between style and class is the following: a = style, b = class, a /= b.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 8:28:59 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

See my ittybitty prob with hypocrisy within society and curtsy.


The problem is society doesn't know the answers to these questions you are asking. You are saying since society cannot justify it, it must be false or if not false we should treat it as false until proven otherwise. In the real world, it doesn't work this way. We must accept a great deal as given. Skepticism cannot be applied unilaterally to all facets of life. You are applying skepticism to problems in life in ways that are inappropriate.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 8:52:24 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		Perhaps you want to know the answers to these large questions because you are a frustrated philosopher. In that case I suggest you forego the pathetic education your peers can provide you. Enroll in a university to formally study philosophy. Even there you will likely be misdirected, but it may be a start. There are a lot of people in this world with degrees. Very few people actually know what they are talking about. It is the difference between style and class.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 9:20:49 AM   
MrBukani


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

What you are talking about are differences in connotation. Knock yourself out. It is, however, important that you take the journey to see for yourself.

The difference between style and class is the following: a = style, b = class, a /= b.

Thats interesting, defining words with math.

I am frustrated with a lotta things but not with my ethics or my philosophy.
The best philosophical advise I got from a simple man who said keep it simple.
You say yourself, I probably wont find the right answer in university so I explore life.
Thing is, like I said, if we cant agree what simple words mean, any discussion gets lost.
I would rather agree with the rest although I might see a word to have a different meaning for the sake of the argument.
You are not helping me, yourself or anybody for that matter for dismissing my argument, words should be clear and pure to any discussion.

I am a class A mofo with a punkbluesstyle.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 9:48:33 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		You are using symbols in a superstitious manner as if you believed in runes. It is inhibiting your ability to understand the concepts I have presented you.

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Profile   Post #: 253
RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/5/2012 10:21:06 AM   
MrBukani


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Status: offline 		Well, I tried,but it seems to me you dont want to touch common ground in basic understanding of words.
Maybe you should try to put forward arguments more simple. And make a firm stand on what you think is true.
Examples like Al Gore made it a bit more clear what you are trying to say.
A lot of the time I have to guess where you are getting at.
I try to be as simple as I can be in explaining something.
Thats why I avoid big words whenever I can and use a more simple synonym.

So to sum it all up I only understand you think, its hypocritical to call Al Gore a hypocrite, when we are all hypocritical about Santa.
And that we are obsessed pointing the finger at big Al. Is that it?

''The rejection of hypocrisy with solidarity is to embrace death.'' This sounds runic to me... Can you translate that?
Can you keep things simple?
Or do you thrive on being hard? Complex would be more accurate but I said hard cause I have the feeling youre dickin me.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 3/5/2012 10:22:50 AM >

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/6/2012 6:19:07 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Do you thrive on being hard? Complex would be more accurate but I said hard cause I have the feeling youre dickin me.


Only a wife deserves a dickin. Since you are not a wife what you get will necessarily be harder to define.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/7/2012 3:46:59 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM post 58 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4038805

Think of the Church as an economist who is looking at supply and demand curves. You cannot have it all one way or the other. An economist does not consider what is ideal, but what is optimal as in what can be realistically achieved all things considered. Unfortunately, this also means that someone is going to get the short end of the stick.


Recall what I wrote on page 9 post 166. Hint, click on this link --> http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4046545

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM page 8 post 154 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4046342

If you can get past my religiosity, you may learn something.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani page 13 post 254 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4051588

... we are all hypocritical about Santa.


Ok, let us talk about what parents often tell their kids. Think Miracle on 34th Street (1947) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039628/. But, you say, are we not lying to our kids? How is this setting a good example for them? Do we not also tell them not to lie? See the top this post. In other words in this world we cannot necessarily speak or act on the truth and when we do often times we must go about things indirectly and according to means that we do not fully understand, that we accept as a given, i.e. on faith. The so-called lie we tell our children is an important lesson. It is a lesson about life and what it means to be alive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM page 5 post 84 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4040907

Consider the following thought experiment. On the desk of Dr. Michio Kaku is a Rubik's cube like box which is a family heirloom. The heirloom fascinated him as a child and was the reason why he became interested in physics much like how a compass inspired Albert Einstein. One day he manages to solve the riddle of the box and it opens. Dr. Michio Kaku meets Pinhead, but says in a vain attempt to exorcize the phantasm, "I'm a scientist! I stand for reason and rationality!" Pinhead replies, "Don't be a hypocrite. ..."


The very act of living is in defiance of the facts, the so-called truth. Our truth is not the so-called truth. The so-called truth is what Dr. Michio Kaku in my fictional story above is talking about when he says, "I'm a scientist! I stand for reason and rationality!". Reason and rationality is not our truth per se.

The fact is life struggles against entropy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_and_life We are winning the battle here on planet earth, at least we try, but when you do the math, you discover that in the grand scheme of things entropy is winning. Realizing this should we go out tomorrow as a species to commit suicide? That would hardly make sense, but it does reveal a fundamental fact of our existence and what it means to be alive. A living organism is a living breathing hypocrite. In other words, a puritanical assault on hypocrisy goes in the wrong direction.

When Pinhead asks us, "Don't be a hypocrite." what is Pinhead prompting us to do? He is seducing us to embrace not life, what we are, but death. For example, if you study logic you will find that people often mean logical-or when they wrote "and". In mathematics, to get a translation to the right, your intuition will tell that the operation involves addition, but it in fact involves subtraction, which is the inverse of addition. It is common for things to be the inverse of what your intuition tells you.

Intuition is a funny thing. It gets all sorts of things wrong and it can not only get things wrong. It can get things stubbornly wrong. Your intuition will tell you that an intellectually honest person abstains from hypocrisy, but this is not entirely the case. Notice that I wrote, is not entirely the case. With hypocrisy, the situation is more complicated. Some things are as they appear to be and some things are not as they appear to be.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/7/2012 7:11:02 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		Hypocritical about Santa as in things we want. Hypocrisy in and unto itself is indicative of nothing. What you are referring to are excesses as in things people do that cause them to miss the mark, that is sin. You are not talking about hypocrisy so why use the word hypocrisy? Use different words such as excess which is a lack of temperance. Temperance is one of the four cardinal virtues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_virtues. The importance of this substitution is non-trivial.

At least arguments that serve as justification for our thoughts or actions if the virtues are taken as our starting points will have a solid footing from the outset which appears especially necessary in correctly resolving moral and ethical problems.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/7/2012 8:57:19 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM post 166 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4046545

When you serve God do not overly concern yourself with your reputation. Your reputation will be sterling enough in Heaven.


What am I talking about here?

quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_virtues

Courage or Fortitude - forbearance, endurance, and ability to confront fear and uncertainty, or intimidation

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Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/7/2012 9:54:53 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		What happens to a society where abstinence of moral contradiction, i.e. hypocrisy, is law? I recall going to court. I was the victim. He pleaded to the judge for mercy. I said to the judge that if he is to plead for mercy, he should address me. The judge accommodated my request. The problem was he was pathetic. I did not say it, but I felt it, "How dare you address me in this manner. Address me as a man!" I was disgusted. The law encourages such behavior. This is why he was behaving the way he was. The law should instead instill in men the moral virtues, but it does not because moral contradiction is easily verifiable. It is the sort of justice that the lazy can enforce.

Justice too is one of the four cardinal virtues. There was no justice even though he was punished because the moral virtues were not taught. He is not a better man for having been punished. He is likely a lesser man for it, bitter and resentful, whereas he could have become a better man for it. He was cheated. Such are the works of Satan and not God. What can we do about it? We can have fortitude and we can be at peace knowing that

quote:

post 166 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4046545

The pious shall be cast into Hell for they do not serve God.


God is just and He cares about you even if the world does not. The world is not God.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 3/7/2012 11:39:30 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		The sort of magick Christians practice, to the extent to which it is magick, is gray magick. So ultimately it is non-partisan. We draw our authority from outside of this world. Hence, it isn't white nor black magick since these things too are things of this world. It is what differentiates us from Pagans. We thread the needle; we hold steadfast to God and nothing else. Bad news for those who think it is white magick. It isn't.

A Christian can side with the judge or the prisoner. These particulars are not important. Because it isn't white magick, many accuse Catholics of committing the Sin of Hypocrisy. The trouble is no such sin exists. It is why the Pope will often claim to be Satan. He won't come out and say it, but he will say in a way that may put protestants who are into this sort of thing into a frenzy. The Church acknowledges that it is an institution of the world. All things of the world are under the jurisdiction of Satan. Hence, the Pope in a sense is Satan for he is a world leader. I did use the words in a sense. The Church, however, looks to God and is an instrument of God.

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