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Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 2:11:19 PM   
BenevolentM


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What seems to color the politics of many here is the notion that hypocrisy is bad, but it seems to me at least that the objection is not altogether legitimate. I think we could all agree that in an ideal world hypocrisy would have no place in it, but in the real world from the stand point of game theory and all that is evil it makes complete sense.

Lets look at a classic example. You have a politician who makes laws against say sodomy and you would think that he or she would be against such things and would refrain from engaging in such activities in their personal life. If said politician, male or female, did not make such laws, someone else would. In politics if you don't look after your needs, no one else is going to be looking out for them. You have to look after yourself. Is this not the case here as well? Where is the helping hand or loving slut?

What I see is a lot of whimpering. The big bad man is a hypocrite! Ok, so? So what? Could it not be that they are living in the real world and you are not?
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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 2:19:45 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		I think acknowledging that we`re all prone to make mistakes as part of life is good.

It`s how we handle them that separates the men from the boys.....the sincere from the hypocrite.Pretending to be perfect or more perfect is not healthy.


The thing most folks won`t tolerate is politicians touting themselves as better b/c they are more moral then tho,more Christian then tho,holier then tho.....


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/18/2012 2:21:01 PM >

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 2:37:03 PM   
BenevolentM


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I am not claiming that it is wholesome. What I am saying is that people here seem to me at least somewhat obsessed with the topic and that wouldn't be healthy either. I concede that a point is being made that could be better appreciated by the world in general. Let's face it. Hypocrisy is evil, but so is the world.

Can Christians be hypocrites? Can a Atheist be a more wholesome neighbor compared to say an uncivilized Christian? Have all of my experiences with Christians been wonderful? No, I don't think so.

Some of these hypocrites may be brethren in disguise.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 2:40:00 PM   
BenevolentM


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I recently saw a graph depicting how much electricity Al Gor for example uses compared to the rest of us. I tend to agree that Al Gor is an elitist. What he is telling us in my opinion is that I'm the one percent and if some people do it, it isn't a big deal, but if everyone did it, it would be a problem.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 2:57:27 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Could it not be that they are living in the real world and you are not?


Or could it be the other way around.
But I see essentially what you are saying is it's okay for a ruling class to prohibit the lower or subject class to enjoy freedoms that they enjoy secretly.

<WEED PICTURE HERE>



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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 3:05:58 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

In politics if you don't look after your needs, no one else is going to be looking out for them.


Can you show me where you derived this 'principal' of politics?

Or is this one of those, 'well this is how it really works' raps.


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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 3:19:36 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Could it not be that they are living in the real world and you are not?


Or could it be the other way around.

But I see essentially what you are saying is it's okay for a ruling class to prohibit the lower or subject class to enjoy freedoms that they enjoy secretly.


I knew when I wrote what I did that I would be presented with precisely the counter-argument you presented. I believe you succinctly stated what most everyone here believes to be so, that it is the other way around. Surely, you realize that I'm playing the role of the devil's advocate.

Would you deny me my secret pleasures? I would not say it is ok. It is a fact of life. How many women did Chairman Mao taste compared to the peasant men.

What I see is frustration, not solutions. If you all got your way, I don't see the paradise that so many of you would anticipate.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 3:23:54 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

In politics if you don't look after your needs, no one else is going to be looking out for them.


Can you show me where you derived this 'principal' of politics?

Or is this one of those, 'well this is how it really works' raps.


Common sense my man. Common sense. Are you claiming that the world loves us? Does it bend over backwards for us just because?

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 3:52:39 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Common sense my man. Common sense. Are you claiming that the world loves us? Does it bend over backwards for us just because?


So because something is broken. Fixing it is a bother.
Gotchya.



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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 4:00:28 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Would you deny me my secret pleasures? I would not say it is ok. It is a fact of life. How many women did Chairman Mao taste compared to the peasant men.


Oh wait... I get it,,,, this is a pretend I'm elitist and gloat post...
Oh god... time for a commercial


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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 4:27:09 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

So because something is broken. Fixing it is a bother.
Gotchya.


You are being cynical. I like fixing things, especially submissive women, but are the assumptions correct? Is hypocrisy the root cause of the problem?

Does hypocrisy confer benefits?

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 4:42:03 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Lets look at a classic example. You have a politician who makes laws against say sodomy and you would think that he or she would be against such things and would refrain from engaging in such activities in their personal life. If said politician, male or female, did not make such laws, someone else would.


In my book, your example is hypocisy of the highest order. Anyone who deems themself fit to make the laws must abide by said laws. The honourable thing to do with a law that goes against your principles is to vote against it, anything less isnt just hypocrisy, it`s cowardice.

Anything less and you get a situation like we had in the Uk with politicians expenses. They felt they were free to fiddle the books but woe betide the rest of us trying to do the same. That isnt democracy, its favouritism.

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 4:53:22 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Would you deny me my secret pleasures? I would not say it is ok. It is a fact of life. How many women did Chairman Mao taste compared to the peasant men.


Oh wait... I get it,,,, this is a pretend I'm elitist and gloat post...


Am I so transparent? It is a competition you know. It is so incongruent that he should have more than Me. Nay!

My women! I desire more women than Chairman Mao!

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 5:09:49 PM   
SoftBonds


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Status: offline 		I agree with the OP, a lot of Christians are hypocrites, and I'd rather have an Atheist for a neighbor.
Joking aside, it does seem like a lot of Christians spend all their "good efforts," on conversion instead of actually doing good things. The exception being the Mormons. Yes, I'm being serious, from their 1950's style commercials to their actions in real life, most Mormons actually act the way Christians say they act, except where Prop 8 was concerned.
I think a hypocrite makes a bad neighbor in general, but I think a lot of it has to do with the old saw "We hate most in others what we hate in ourselves," which suggests that the best way to find out a persons sins is to look at what they rail about.
Oh my god, I'm a closet Christian!!!
(grin)

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 5:21:19 PM   
GrandPoobah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Could it not be that they are living in the real world and you are not?


Or could it be the other way around.

But I see essentially what you are saying is it's okay for a ruling class to prohibit the lower or subject class to enjoy freedoms that they enjoy secretly.


I knew when I wrote what I did that I would be presented with precisely the counter-argument you presented. I believe you succinctly stated what most everyone here believes to be so, that it is the other way around. Surely, you realize that I'm playing the role of the devil's advocate.

Would you deny me my secret pleasures? I would not say it is ok. It is a fact of life. How many women did Chairman Mao taste compared to the peasant men.

What I see is frustration, not solutions. If you all got your way, I don't see the paradise that so many of you would anticipate.


In short, anytime someone dictates to another, the problem will arise. We accept a certain amount of that, simply because we need a common set of rules for any society to work. For example, without agreement regarding ownership of real property, there would be fights every day about what land is "mine" and what land is "yours."

On the other hand, when we start allowing those rules to impose conduct which has no effect upon others, things change. Why does society care exactly how a given couple "make love?" Beyond imposing a personal belief upon others, there is no rational reason for laws about such things. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't work for me, great. As long as you're not forcing it upon me, we can get along. It's that "forcing" that creates the tension. Throughout history more wars have been fought over Religion than any other single cause. This is just more of the same, playing out on the battlefield of Women's Rights.

http://craig-allen.blogspot.com/2012/02/its-time-for-new-warand-this-one-is.html

GP

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 8:07:58 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

You are being cynical. I like fixing things, especially submissive women, but are the assumptions correct? Is hypocrisy the root cause of the problem?


C:\HUH? Forgive since I never take meds via a spraycan and paper bag, I may miss a nuance or two here but it was my impression the OP was the cynical piece.
    I thought what I was pointing out is the fact a perversion of  political ideology exists, it doesn't preclude the existence of a healthy attitude toward the constructive execution of political practices.


quote:

Does hypocrisy confer benefits?


I would hypocrisy has one possible consequence of an attempt to abscond with some benefit you don't deserve.




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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 8:17:06 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Am I so transparent?


Ummmmm Yeah, pretty much.




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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 8:19:31 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I agree with the OP, a lot of Christians are hypocrites, and I'd rather have an Atheist for a neighbor.


Who said anything about Christians?
So this is just another Unholy Bunny Boiler Thread? Which of the posters is playing Glenn Close?



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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 8:20:29 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM


What seems to color the politics of many here is the notion that hypocrisy is bad, but it seems to me at least that the objection is not altogether legitimate. I think we could all agree that in an ideal world hypocrisy would have no place in it, but in the real world from the stand point of game theory and all that is evil it makes complete sense.

Lets look at a classic example. You have a politician who makes laws against say sodomy and you would think that he or she would be against such things and would refrain from engaging in such activities in their personal life. If said politician, male or female, did not make such laws, someone else would. In politics if you don't look after your needs, no one else is going to be looking out for them. You have to look after yourself. Is this not the case here as well? Where is the helping hand or loving slut?

What I see is a lot of whimpering. The big bad man is a hypocrite! Ok, so? So what? Could it not be that they are living in the real world and you are not?



And your point was ?

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RE: Hypocrisy or Obsession - 2/18/2012 8:23:55 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

In short, anytime someone dictates to another, the problem will arise. We accept a certain amount of that, simply because we need a common set of rules for any society to work. For example, without agreement regarding ownership of real property, there would be fights every day about what land is "mine" and what land is "yours."


I hope for the sake of time well spent you are pointing this out for the OP's benefit.  Otherwise I'd really appreciate your pointing out exactly what part of what you've written that I wouldn't understand as a consequence of the very simple terms I laid out in my first rebuttal.
  My guess is though that OP is going for some kind of shock and awe thing and just can't get his head around how to lay it out effectively.



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