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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 6:18:52 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

fr

See the science fetishists dance -


What the fuck is a "Science Fetishist"?

And given Science's results like GPS, antibiotics and going to the fucking moon, I can think of worse things to idealize.

Know what keeps your yacht afloat? It ain't belief.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/20/2012 6:19:31 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Yachtie)
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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 6:38:09 AM   
stardancer00


Posts: 60
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Status: offline 		What you are calling "soul" seems to be another way of understanding individuality. When you think about the ocean, is it possible to really separate the waves from the ocean itself? The waves are expressions of the ocean's movement. The possibilities are endless. The waves always return to the source, as well. Christians get very hung up on maintaining the separate self and the idea of the body resurrecting as a more perfect "you," for the faithful. In other cultures/religions, it is the essence of the individuality which has created a kind of imprint in space/time, and which persists, not as the "self" as you know it, but as an energy which has an overall effect. In that context, it is possible for energy to exist without the need for a fixed entity or boundary, and it can be shared in an infinite number of ways, in the same way as we see waves in the ocean.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 6:48:35 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
given Science's results like GPS

Used to be rather inaccurate by tens of meters, if I recall correctly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
antibiotics

One of the worst discoveries ever. Them bacteriophages that were cultivated in the Soviet Union were far better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
going to the fucking moon

Haven't been there in a while...

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I can think of worse things to idealize.

Indeed. Science is great; I think that most spiritually aware and/or religious people will agree on that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Know what keeps your yacht afloat? It ain't belief.

How do you know that? The yacht floats because it has been built to float and guess what: the people who designed and built it were certain - i.e. they believed - that it would float. If they had not been certain, they would not have built it.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 6:53:26 AM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
given Science's results like GPS

Used to be rather inaccurate by tens of meters, if I recall correctly.



1st generation GPS was inaccurate as you say, but only because the US military owned it, and was intentionally providing diminished capability to civilians to prevent enemies from using our own capabilities against us. Which was only fair as the GPS sats were not put up there for civilian use, and the civilian GPS was essentially a "free gift," by the military.

It was much more accurate for the intended users. ;)

(in reply to Rule)
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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 7:07:51 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:


How do you know that? The yacht floats because it has been built to float and guess what: the people who designed and built it were certain - i.e. they believed - that it would float. If they had not been certain, they would not have built it.


Maybe, y'all need to go do a little learnin about what the words 'theological belief' means versus the words 'nautical engineering'



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/20/2012 7:08:09 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SoftBonds)
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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 7:52:15 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Monozygotic (i.e. identical) twins divide after conception.

Either the soul must be divisible or it does not come into existance at conception...

Or the division results because of the presence of two souls.

...

Mister Obvious




Hey! How come these embryos get two souls and the rest of us only one? The only way your suggestion can work is if we all have two souls .. or perhaps God discriminates (very un-PC, and unprofessional too I might add, of God to get caught out doing that isn't it? All that stuff about loving all His (sic) children equally and so on .........)

....which leads to some ticklish problems .... like what about triplets? Or quadruplets? Or ..... need I go on ...?

Or what would happen if one of my 'souls' gets to go to heaven and the other some where else .... purgatory? (Do they still have it?) or ...(heavens forbid!) hell even?

Wouldn't it be more productive to figure out how many angels we can fit on the head of a needle?

And if we are going to be rigourous about this question: Those who claim that the embryo possesses a soul in the first place must prove scientifically the validity of that claim before they can demand any further testing of any sort. Over to you Mr Pope, and his followers.

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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 9:15:29 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Over to you Mr Pope, and his followers.

I very much doubt that the popes of the past two centuries were religious or even spiritually aware - except for the one who was murdered when barely two weeks in function (JP I, I believe).

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 10:45:21 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
....which leads to some ticklish problems .... like what about triplets? Or quadruplets? Or ..... need I go on ...?


And now that we have well-developed IVF procedures, what happens if a tech goes into a lab one day, and tosses a coin to determine whether or not they'll induce twinning? There's a 50/50 chance of that blastocyst needing another soul. Where's your predetermination now?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 4:08:33 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Those who claim that the embryo possesses a soul in the first place must prove scientifically the validity of that claim

Ah, but who actually makes that claim?

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 2/20/2012 4:17:59 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 5:25:39 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Monozygotic (i.e. identical) twins divide after conception.

Either the soul must be divisible or it does not come into existence at conception but at some later stage. Indivisible soul at conception is demonstrably not possible, unless you insist that identical twins are of the devil.

Science. It works, bitches.


FUCK!!!!!

Can't they be two souls?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 5:35:50 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

FUCK!!!!!

Can't they be two souls?

Nope, now shush. It has to be either one or none. That's just rational science.

K.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 5:37:00 PM   
SoftBonds


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Status: offline 		Some have speculated that Left Handed individuals are the result of having a twin who was miscarried early enough in pregnancy that the woman didn't notice, but late enough to influence the other fetus.
If so, perhaps souls only go to right handed people. Sinister, isn't it?
Note, Sinister originally meant left handed ;)

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 5:42:14 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		what about a twin who is subsumed?,

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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to SoftBonds)
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RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 5:45:49 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

Some have speculated that Left Handed individuals are the result of having a twin who was miscarried early enough in pregnancy that the woman didn't notice, but late enough to influence the other fetus.
If so, perhaps souls only go to right handed people. Sinister, isn't it?
Note, Sinister originally meant left handed ;)



How would that work? Identical twins come from the same inseminated egg, one placenta. Fraternal twins would not have a genetic influence on each other.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SoftBonds)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 5:50:08 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

what about a twin who is subsumed?,


Even worse, the sinister twin ATE his/her sibling!!!

quote:


How would that work? Identical twins come from the same inseminated egg, one placenta. Fraternal twins would not have a genetic influence on each other.


Sorry Tazzy, didn't put up the snark flag. My entire post is tongue in cheek, please do not seek wisdom from my madness, seek it in your own madness instead. I can barely find my wallet in my madness, much less wisdom.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 5:53:07 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Sorry Tazzy, didn't put up the snark flag. My entire post is tongue in cheek, please do not seek wisdom from my madness, seek it in your own madness instead. I can barely find my wallet in my madness, much less wisdom.


Hmpf.. and the first time I do not take you seriously, you are gonna get snippy.

Men!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SoftBonds)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 5:58:44 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

FUCK!!!!!

Can't they be two souls?

Nope, now shush. It has to be either one or none. That's just rational science.

K.


Shit.

Ya know....if I had a bag of Pop Rocks and I put them all in my mouth.....there'd be a fuckload more of pop rocks).

(I'm on to something here....and I don't give a shit what anyone says).



< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 2/20/2012 6:26:29 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 6:06:55 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Sorry Tazzy, didn't put up the snark flag. My entire post is tongue in cheek, please do not seek wisdom from my madness, seek it in your own madness instead. I can barely find my wallet in my madness, much less wisdom.


Hmpf.. and the first time I do not take you seriously, you are gonna get snippy.

Men!

But of course, did you think only women were allowed to be changeable of mind?
One must have a bit of chaos within one if one is to give birth to a dancing star.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 6:59:51 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

(I'm on to something here....and I don't give a shit what anyone says).

Well that's more like it. Now you're getting with the general theme of this thread.

K.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/20/2012 11:34:42 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		And much as I hate to be difficult ....

What about Siamese twins? Do they get a soul each? Or half a soul each? Or a 60-40 split? And what effects might operations to separate them have on this delicate balance ...........?

I suspect it might take a miracle to get to the bottom of this .........

_____________________________



(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 100
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