RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins?

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/21/2012 8:32:04 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

There are a number of humorous thought problems which show up if we start from the assumption that an ancient supernatural explanation for how the mind works is correct. For instance when Phineas Gage died was his ghost 1848 Phineas Gage or 1860 Phineas Gage?

"Perhaps the first reported case of personality change after brain injury is that of Phineas Gage, who survived an accident in which a large iron rod was driven through his head, destroying one or both of his frontal lobes; numerous cases of personality change after brain injury have been reported since.[link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_brain_injury#cite_note-Mattson90-23][/link]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_brain_injury

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 101

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/27/2012 8:36:12 AM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Im sure at this point many can see the problem with the notion that "Life begins at conception"

Sure, It's a demonstrably false position but that doesn't stop people from holding it. After all they have Faith.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 102

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/27/2012 8:44:42 AM

SoftBonds

Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Im sure at this point many can see the problem with the notion that "Life begins at conception"

Sure, It's a demonstrably false position but that doesn't stop people from holding it. After all they have Faith.

Combine Bush's stances in the minimum number of words:
Life begins at Occupation

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 103

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/27/2012 9:00:52 AM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

What about split brain patients? How does that work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iNMxjxL7k&feature=related

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 104

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/27/2012 9:32:22 AM

xXLithiumXx

Posts: 723
Joined: 9/2/2008
From: Hell, Kentucky
Status: offline

I was an identical twin. My sister died at the second trimester. They said that we would have been mirror twins. But I think that is based on the fact that her heart was on the wrong side, flipped backwards and upside down.

I know of many others like me who lost a twin either before or shortly after birth.

I don't know when the soul comes into play. None of us do, and any assumption on the part of science, religion or the every day practitioner of whatever constitutes real and deep thought in this world any more, that says that they do is full of shit. It's all just speculative theory-no matter what "spiritual" aspect of the human...condition...you look at.

The soul of a person, in my opinion, is not some mystical thing that you can really define. It is what makes us who we are as people. I think it is an ever shifting and changing thing, shaped by our hearts and experiences. Maybe that sounds kind of hippie-esque. I dunno.

But as someone who had a twin that died, even before I knew her, I can tell you that it leaves a big gap there for you. Even as a child, before I could understand that I was a twin and that she was lost, my parents and grand parents said that I would "look" for her. They said that there were times when they would walk into the room and I would be speaking a different language all together, but there would be no one in the room with me. Now, granted, I was raised by superstitious Italian grandparents for the most part, and that maybe where that comes from, but I do know as an adult, I have always felt as if something was missing, like no one was really meshing with me, or like I was...just alone, I guess is the best way to put it.

I dunno that any of that is worth anything, in the grand scheme of things, I dunno that it means that my soul was split and half of it is gone to where ever souls go when they die...I just know that I spend a little bit of time now and again wondering if things would have been any different if she had lived.

ETA- I did post this before reading all of the responses, and I am probably somewhat out of my intellectual league with you folks here on the Reg and Poli board...but...I figured maybe the perspective of someone like me would help...I dunno how enlightening it would be...but maybe..

< Message edited by xXLithiumXx -- 2/27/2012 9:34:22 AM >

_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement

You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

Resident Malkavian.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 105

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 7:31:36 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Im sure at this point many can see the problem with the notion that "Life begins at conception"

Sure, It's a demonstrably false position but that doesn't stop people from holding it. After all they have Faith.

Combine Bush's stances in the minimum number of words:
Life begins at Occupation

Now there's a thought! Up there with the Stem Cell Non-Proliferation Treaty I'd guess!

_____________________________

(in reply to SoftBonds)

Post #: 106

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 7:51:08 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

FR

Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 107

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 8:16:18 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

FR

Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down.

I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 108

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 8:32:48 AM

SoftBonds

Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

FR

Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down.

I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Now I'm not a horticulturist, but I'm pretty sure you just described pruning, a practice that makes the plant healtier and stronger. Somehow I doubt that was your intent though...

_____________________________

Elite Thread Hijacker!
Ignored: ThompsonX, RealOne (so folks know why I don't reply)

The last poster is often not the "winner," of the thread, just the one who was most annoying.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 109

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 8:49:55 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

FR

Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down.

I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Now I'm not a horticulturist, but I'm pretty sure you just described pruning, a practice that makes the plant healtier and stronger. Somehow I doubt that was your intent though...

Nor am I a horticulturist but, I've done some (successful) gardening and I'd be willing to bet that 22% would be a very high percentage. I could be wrong but, I doubt it. Also, I'm not so sure that pruning is done before blooming. I guess there would be some amount of pruning, at that stage (buds) but, I would assume that it would just be removing the dead/slow growing buds so that the tree's resources are not wasted (photosynthesis is a bitch) on buds that won't be very "healthy" leaves.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/28/2012 8:54:20 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to SoftBonds)

Post #: 110

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 8:59:42 AM

SoftBonds

Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

FR

Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down.

I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Now I'm not a horticulturist, but I'm pretty sure you just described pruning, a practice that makes the plant healtier and stronger. Somehow I doubt that was your intent though...

Nor am I a horticulturist but, I've done some (successful) gardening and I'd be willing to bet that 22% would be a very high percentage. I could be wrong but, I doubt it. Also, I'm not so sure that pruning is done before blooming. I guess there would be some amount of pruning, at that stage (buds) but, I would assume that it would just be removing the dead/slow growing buds so that the tree's resources are not wasted (photosynthesis is a bitch) on buds that won't be very "healthy" leaves.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Again, you make a wonderful argument for the Pro-choice position, LOL.
A branch that can't support more leaves? Prune it (e.g. a woman with kids who can't afford another, the most common type of abortion).
A branch overshadowed by other branches? Prune the buds and let it grow into the light (e.g. teen mothers or others who are not yet ready for children)
Sickly branch? Prune it (e.g. father has abandoned pregnant woman)
dead/slow growing buds? Prune it (e.g. birth defects or conjenital issues)
pruning is done before blooming, aka. abortions are better than infanticide.
Now we just need to come up with a description of rape/incest in the tree pruning motif

_____________________________

Elite Thread Hijacker!
Ignored: ThompsonX, RealOne (so folks know why I don't reply)

The last poster is often not the "winner," of the thread, just the one who was most annoying.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 111

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 9:25:05 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Again, you make a wonderful argument for the Pro-choice position, LOL.
A branch that can't support more leaves? Prune it (e.g. a woman with kids who can't afford another, the most common type of abortion).
A branch overshadowed by other branches? Prune the buds and let it grow into the light (e.g. teen mothers or others who are not yet ready for children)
Sickly branch? Prune it (e.g. father has abandoned pregnant woman)
dead/slow growing buds? Prune it (e.g. birth defects or conjenital issues)
pruning is done before blooming, aka. abortions are better than infanticide.
Now we just need to come up with a description of rape/incest in the tree pruning motif

I guess your analogies are okay but, I vehemently object to you equating a dead-beat dad to the branch being "sickly". As a matter of fact, anything that involves a dad in any of your analogies renders them false (well, problematic). Here's why:

A bud only needs the tree to sustain it. Now, for photosynthesis, the tree needs water, sunlight, nutrients from the ground, and carbondioxide.

If you remove any one of those four things, the tree (society) will eventually die. The tree cannot live without them. To complete my objection to your analogy; we have the ability to artificially supply water, imitate sunlight, fertilize the ground, and the good Lord knows we make some carbondioxide (I would call this "welfare" in the absence of the payche ... errrr ... father)

Like it or not, we have three generations of cases of a mother and baby surviving with the absence of a father (just as a personal note: We have far too many cases of mothers and babies not surviving the same predicament) so, your analogy really doesn't work.

As far as the birth defects analogy: who should prune it? The tree? The owner of the tree? The creator of the tree? To me, this is dicey territory (especially if it were ever to be mandated).

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to SoftBonds)

Post #: 112

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 9:52:07 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Some men drool over women with big buds, others like thick trunks, I'm more of a root man myself.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 2/28/2012 9:54:03 AM >

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 113

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 9:54:22 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Some men drool over women with big buds, others like thick trunks, I'm more of a root man myself.

K.

I like the part that goes over the fence, last, myself.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 114

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 7:11:37 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Now I'm not a horticulturist, but I'm pretty sure you just described pruning, a practice that makes the plant healtier and stronger. Somehow I doubt that was your intent though...

Damn you beat me to it.

(in reply to SoftBonds)

Post #: 115

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 7:13:39 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away?

quote:

ORIGINAL:http://www.leaflimb.com/faq
Q: Is there a good time of year to do tree removal or trimming?
A: Removing trees can be done any time of the year. If you are doing a moderate trimming (25% or less of the canopy), then you can do so any time except Spring. During Spring the trees are starting to blossom and the sap rises, which causes them to “bleed” if pruned. For severe pruning (25% or more of the canopy) it is best to wait until late fall/early winter before we have hard freezes and after the leaves have fallen. Trees are relatively dormant during this time of year and can withstand severe trimming.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 116

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 7:18:16 PM

SoftBonds

Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline

Must resist Euthenasia quote...

_____________________________

Elite Thread Hijacker!
Ignored: ThompsonX, RealOne (so folks know why I don't reply)

The last poster is often not the "winner," of the thread, just the one who was most annoying.

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 117

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 7:25:07 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx
I don't know when the soul comes into play. None of us do, and any assumption on the part of science, religion or the every day practitioner of whatever constitutes real and deep thought in this world any more, that says that they do is full of shit. It's all just speculative theory-no matter what "spiritual" aspect of the human...condition...you look at.

The soul of a person, in my opinion, is not some mystical thing that you can really define. It is what makes us who we are as people. I think it is an ever shifting and changing thing, shaped by our hearts and experiences. Maybe that sounds kind of hippie-esque. I dunno.

The problem with claiming that the soul is what makes us who we are as people is, that job is already taken by the brain.

(in reply to xXLithiumXx)

Post #: 118

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 7:36:05 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

I guess that you are a dreamless automaton... Or perchance you live in Oz, scaring the crows, and you read us snippets from your stuffing?

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 119

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what a... - 2/28/2012 7:47:31 PM

SoftBonds

Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I guess that you are a dreamless automaton... Or perchance you live in Oz, scaring the crows, and you read us snippets from your stuffing?

Dreams are pretty obviously the result of Brain activity too...
I mean, you can pick them up on an EEG or MRI. Heck, we even know what chemical shuts down the transfer from short term memory to long term memory so that you don't remember your dreams (unless you write it down or keep it in your thoughts until the brain purges that sleep chemical).
Some evidence that Dreams are a process that allows the brain to re-organize memories and clean up the clutter of the mind.
As for the veiled crack that he was the scarecrow from Oz, you basically called him brainless, I don't think that was cool...

_____________________________

Elite Thread Hijacker!
Ignored: ThompsonX, RealOne (so folks know why I don't reply)

The last poster is often not the "winner," of the thread, just the one who was most annoying.

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 120

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins?

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109