RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 9:39:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Would you like a nice litmus test to be required on what a candidate's religious beliefs can, and cannot be?

I don't think anybody has a problem with Santorum's private religious beliefs. The problem is his political philosophy, namely, that the Bible should be the "litmus test" (to borrow your phrase) for secular law. That's a big no-thank-you.

K.


This,right there...I don't always agree with Kirata...but this I couldn't agree with more.
Thank you for summing up my fear so succinctly




Edwynn -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 12:38:00 PM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

The answer you get to this question depends on who you ask.
In general, if you ask this question in the NorthEast or West, you will get a yes, if you ask this question in the South or non-city MidWest, you will get a lecture on how the founding fathers were all Christians and while they wanted freedom to choose any type of Christianity, that didn't mean anyone in the US could be a Muslim or Athiest...
Then they will try to claim Thomas Jefferson wasn't a founding father if you point out his beliefs...


And you reside in ... where?

Wait, don't tell me, lemme guess ...







DarkSteven -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 1:06:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I think it's pretty well covered by the First Amendment, guys.


Sorta.  I believe that that only covers the practice of religion.  But not the protection against criticism.  As a candidate, a man could vilify any religion in order to get elected, although he could not infringe upon its practice once elected.




pyroaquatic -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 2:19:29 PM)

I'm electing a robot as president.

All hail the Technocracy.




Aylee -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 2:31:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Rick Santurom's rise in the Republican nomination process is,for me troubling,seeing how his campaign is based in large part on his adherence to his own stated religious views.
So are we to be a Nation with a secular government are or we heading towards government by a near theocratic President?


Without reading the replies: What did JFK have to say about this?

This question was asked fifty years ago. Why are you asking it again?




Fightdirecto -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 5:30:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Rick Santurom's rise in the Republican nomination process is,for me troubling,seeing how his campaign is based in large part on his adherence to his own stated religious views.
So are we to be a Nation with a secular government are or we heading towards government by a near theocratic President?

Without reading the replies: What did JFK have to say about this?
This question was asked fifty years ago. Why are you asking it again?

JFK answered the question this way:
quote:

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him...

Whatever issue may come before me as President--on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject--I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates. And no power or threat of punishment could cause me to decide otherwise.

But if the time should ever come--and I do not concede any conflict to be even remotely possible--when my office would require me to either violate my conscience or violate the national interest, then I would resign the office; and I hope any conscientious public servant would do the same.


And Santorum answered the same question this way:

quote:

During a symposium exploring Catholic statesmanship on Dec. 4, 2010, likely 2012 presidential candidate Rick Santorum rejected President John F. Kennedy’s advocacy of an absolute separation of church and state...

Describing Kennedy’s famous 1960 speech in which he aimed to dispel suspicions about the role the Pope might play in his administration, Santorum said that “Kennedy chose not just to dispel fear, he chose to expel faith.”

“The idea of strict or absolute separation of church and state is not and never was the American model...Kennedy took words written to protect religion from the government and used them to shield the government from religion...Kennedy and his modern day disciples would resolve any conflict between religion and politics by relegating faith to the closet.”


Why do we again ask Santorum the question asked of JFK in 1960?

Because, unlike JFK who answered the question as an American first and a Roman Catholic second, Santorum is answering the question as a Roman Catholic first and an American second.

And the majority of Americans who are not Roman Catholics would prefer a President who thinks of being an American before he thinks of himself (or herself) as being of a specific religious faith or no faith at all. His priorities do not bode well for the country if put in a position of executive power.




slvemike4u -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 6:39:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Rick Santurom's rise in the Republican nomination process is,for me troubling,seeing how his campaign is based in large part on his adherence to his own stated religious views.
So are we to be a Nation with a secular government are or we heading towards government by a near theocratic President?


Without reading the replies: What did JFK have to say about this?

This question was asked fifty years ago. Why are you asking it again?

Wrong..and it has nothing to do with JFK...perhaps you should read the replys.




SoftBonds -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 6:43:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

The answer you get to this question depends on who you ask.
In general, if you ask this question in the NorthEast or West, you will get a yes, if you ask this question in the South or non-city MidWest, you will get a lecture on how the founding fathers were all Christians and while they wanted freedom to choose any type of Christianity, that didn't mean anyone in the US could be a Muslim or Athiest...
Then they will try to claim Thomas Jefferson wasn't a founding father if you point out his beliefs...


And you reside in ... where?

Wait, don't tell me, lemme guess ...



Actually, that is a difficult question. I've lived in Chicago, St. Louis, Virginia, Florida, Georgia, Washington, California, Alaska, Wyoming... I'm a wanderer...
Current legal residency is Washington, though I haven't lived there for a bit...




slvemike4u -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 7:15:14 PM)

Aylee,allow me to ask a question of you...do you think Santurom is actually Presidential material?




Fightdirecto -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/19/2012 7:42:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Aylee, allow me to ask a question of you...do you think Santurom is actually Presidential material?

I, for one, would love it if Santorum were selected to be the GOP presidential candidate.

It would make LBJ's defeat of Goldwater in 1964 and Nixon's defeat of McGovern in 1972 look like they were close elections.

Candidate Santorum would not only ensure President Obama's re-election, but he would damage the GOP for years to come.

As in 1964 with Barry "In Your Heart You Know He's Right - Far Right" Goldwater, GOP candidates for Governorships, Congress and state legislatures would spend most of the campaign season giving speeches on how much they didn't support him, knowing he would drag them down with him into defeat.


[image]local://upfiles/42188/4FCD624D7C874279AA5F83A61F94D2CC.jpg[/image]




Kirata -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/20/2012 7:30:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

As in 1964 with Barry "In Your Heart You Know He's Right - Far Right" Goldwater, GOP candidates for Governorships, Congress and state legislatures would spend most of the campaign season giving speeches on how much they didn't support him, knowing he would drag them down with him into defeat.

Well he got one or two things right. Asked about Jerry Falwell, Goldwater flatly declared that "all good Christians should kick him in the ass."

K.






SternSkipper -> RE: Are we a secular Nation...or not. (2/20/2012 8:12:57 PM)

quote:

Congress and state legislatures would spend most of the campaign season giving speeches on how much they didn't support him, knowing he would drag them down with him into defeat.


And yet, he was the nomenee....
  
If I hear "Happy Days Are Here Again" I'm just gonna scream.





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