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If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/19/2012 11:12:08 PM

DaddySatyr

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/06/palestinian-hamas-fatah-deal_n_1257919.html

For those that don’t want to read the link: I specifically chose the Huffington Post so that the lefties couldn’t claim that this was part of the vast right wing conspiracy propaganda.

Hamas and Fatah have re-united in a provisional government. They are planning on open and free elections. Many would say that’s a good thing but our own State Department still calls Hamas a terrorist organization.

At best; the PA has "legitimized" Hamas. At worst; they've welcomed home (Hamas is a splinter group from the PA/PLO) a group of terrorists.

Naturally, Israel is so happy about this news that President Netanyahu has already said that there will be no future peace talks with Hamas in the mix.

Still think it’s good news? Well, then, you must not be hoping for peace in the middle East. Fair enough. I don’t care what people do, a half a globe away as long as they’re not fucking with us.

What is a bit troubling for me is that we’ve already gotten into bed (in a way) with Hamas:

US Embassy Website

Klein (Investigative reporter) Online

The US government has announced that they will continue the $100,000,000 program to help “green” the Palestinian Territories. Who’s getting the money? Why, The PA/Hamas, of course!

See, this is a good thing because it means that they don’t have to use their own money to do this. They can keep their money concentrated on their humanitarian activities.

Like it or not, it appears we’re subsidizing a terrorist organization. No, we haven’t earmarked the money for terrorist activities but, every dollar we send them is one less dollar they have to use for everyday things and which they can then devote to terrorist activities.

Someone in the Federal Government needs to wake the fuck up, here.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/19/2012 11:21:01 PM >

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RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 5:19:15 AM

Owner59

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"One would have to have a heart of stone not to be appalled by the mass suffering visited upon the Gaza Strip by Israel’s punishing assault. If blame is to be assessed, however, it does not belong to Israel alone.

The Gaza war between Israel and Hamas is but another legacy of George W. Bush’s disastrous presidency. After Israel withdrew its soldiers and its 8,000 settlers from Gaza in the summer of 2005, the Bush administration decided to bring “democracy” to the Palestinians. It insisted on running a parliamentary election and allowing Hamas to compete.

Hamas was not legally qualified to run without meeting the minimum requirements of the Oslo agreements still in effect from the 1990s: primarily to renounce violence and accept Israel’s existence. Qualifying for elections in this way might have been a lever to get Hamas to change its spots, but the Bush State Department insisted on allowing Hamas to run as it was, cynically assuming that it would not win. Hamas won a plurality of votes with 44 percent to Fatah’s 42 percent and took power early in 2006.

Soon after its election, Hamas declared a truce, but it was still allowing other factions to fire at Israel. Hamas even lauded as “resistance” two successful suicide bombings–one in Tel Aviv and another in Ashdod. A coalition of groups, including Hamas, captured one IDF soldier, while killing two others, in a cross-border raid in June of 2006; this one soldier, Gilad Shalit, is still their prisoner. Tragically, in response, Israeli forces rampaged through Gaza that summer, killing several hundred Palestinians to no avail (a veritable second front to the larger Lebanon war raging to the north).

In June of 2008, Egypt mediated a six-month cease-fire agreement, which expired on December 19. It was mostly observed by both sides until Israel destroyed a tunnel on the Gaza side of the border, apparently being prepared for another raid to capture Israelis. A few armed Palestinians were killed in this incident and Hamas resumed fire on Israeli towns near the border–up to 60 rockets and mortar shells daily."

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/4212/hamas_gaza_and_bushs_legacy/

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RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 6:23:39 AM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

Naturally, Israel is so happy about this news that President Netanyahu has already said that there will be no future peace talks with Hamas in the mix.

Still think it’s good news? Well, then, you must not be hoping for peace in the middle East.

My oh my! There is at least one individual in the entire world who hasn't yet worked out that the last thing Netanyahoo wants is peace, and hasn't noticed that Netanyahoo has spent his entire Prime Ministership systematically destroying any possibility of a Two State solution.

FYI DS, Netanyahoo is far too focussed on stealing what remains of the West Bank to worry about trivia like peace. And then there's the minor matter of a war with Iran he's trying to start.

Never mind, just carry on blaming those nasty Muslims and Arabs ...... (oh and Netanyahoo is the PRIME MINISTER of Israel, not the President. It's a really good idea to get details like that right if you want people to think you know what you're talking about)

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/20/2012 6:34:05 AM >

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RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 8:57:35 AM

Anaxagoras

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Like it or not, it appears we’re subsidizing a terrorist organization. No, we haven’t earmarked the money for terrorist activities but, every dollar we send them is one less dollar they have to use for everyday things and which they can then devote to terrorist activities.

Someone in the Federal Government needs to wake the fuck up, here.

Unfortunately it seems the government knows what it is doing in part because whilst letting Iran's allie off the hook after it was isolated for years, it is now trying to dissuade Israel from striking Iran judging by news coverage.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 2/20/2012 9:02:16 AM >

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Post #: 4

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 11:45:59 AM

DaddySatyr

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"One would have to have a heart of stone not to be appalled by the mass suffering visited upon the Gaza Strip by Israel’s punishing assault. If blame is to be assessed, however, it does not belong to Israel alone.

The Gaza war between Israel and Hamas is but another legacy of George W. Bush’s disastrous presidency. After Israel withdrew its soldiers and its 8,000 settlers from Gaza in the summer of 2005, the Bush administration decided to bring “democracy” to the Palestinians. It insisted on running a parliamentary election and allowing Hamas to compete.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/4212/hamas_gaza_and_bushs_legacy/

It's refreshing, to me, that you're consistent, at least. Blaming President Bush for the hostilities between the Arabs and Jews is like blaming President Obama for this country not being on the gold standard, anymore.

Nice try at a derail but the topic was the US, subsidizing a terrorist organization (By the way, this subsidy was started in 2010 so, don't try to blame it on President Bush, either).

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 12:14:15 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/06/palestinian-hamas-fatah-deal_n_1257919.html

For those that don’t want to read the link: I specifically chose the Huffington Post so that the lefties couldn’t claim that this was part of the vast right wing conspiracy propaganda.
Hamas and Fatah have re-united in a provisional government. They are planning on open and free elections. Many would say that’s a good thing but our own State Department still calls Hamas a terrorist organization.
At best; the PA has "legitimized" Hamas. At worst; they've welcomed home (Hamas is a splinter group from the PA/PLO) a group of terrorists.

I am sorry... but I am just gonna come right out and call a spade a spade and say IT'S DOPEY to infer using the term "lefties" that all people with a a left leaning or progressive politics are going to give a big woohoo to the paletinians and then 'be shocked' at Israel's reaction.
Let me clue you in on something. Most of the "lefties" I know are pretty Pro-Israel... and brace yourself... Your president is FAR MORE SUPPORTIVE of Israel than you're nit-picking HANDLERS will allow you to believe.
But whatever, you've either got your heart set of having a good old left/right debate, and I'm just not interested. I just didn't want the boots deep bullshit story that was being cooked up go unanswered.
Have fun... there are those that actually care about having a rousing debate over the Israel/Palestine saga than me.

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Post #: 6

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 12:18:38 PM

DaddySatyr

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

Let me clue you in on something. Most of the "lefties" I know are pretty Pro-Israel... and brace yourself... Your president is FAR MORE SUPPORTIVE of Israel than you're nit-picking HANDLERS will allow you to believe.
But whatever, you've either got your heart set of having a good old left/right debate, and I'm just not interested. I just didn't want the boots deep bullshit story that was being cooked up go unanswered.
Have fun... there are those that actually care about having a rousing debate over the Israel/Palestine saga than me.

You're right. Most lefties are pro-Israel. I think most people are; even if it's strictly by virtue of Israel not being a nation of terrorists.

That is not what I said. I said I chose the Huff Po link so that lefties couldn't complain about the source.

Nowhere did I say that President Obama wasn't Pro-Israel. I did say that our government is giving $100,000,000 to a terrorist organization at a time when we're embroiled in the worst recession in our history (2010).

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/20/2012 12:20:31 PM >

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Post #: 7

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 12:28:40 PM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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What are you whinging about DS?

Your Govt gives $3 billion a year, plus as much military hardware as anyone else in the region dreams of, to Israel and they're the biggest baddest and best eqipped (courtesy of Uncle Sam) terrorists in the entire region. Compared to that a mere $100 million is small change.

A bit of balance please ... or is this just another anti-Arab/Muslim rant?

.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/20/2012 12:29:49 PM >

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RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 12:34:50 PM

SternSkipper

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Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

That is not what I said. I said I chose the Huff Po link so that lefties couldn't complain about the source.

Cool ,,, then my point remains made... same kind of thinking.
You know how many times I read Huffpo in the average week?
As many as someone trying to pidgeon hole me as a "leftist" uses it as their "resource".

_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.

Tinfoilers Swallow

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Post #: 9

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 12:36:31 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

I did say that our government is giving $100,000,000 to a terrorist organization at a time when we're embroiled in the worst recession in our history (2010).

Yes you did. So tell the GOP House to revoke that which they supported in 2010.

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Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.

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Post #: 10

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 12:40:04 PM

DaddySatyr

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

That is not what I said. I said I chose the Huff Po link so that lefties couldn't complain about the source.

Cool ,,, then my point remains made... same kind of thinking.
You know how many times I read Huffpo in the average week?
As many as someone trying to pidgeon hole me as a "leftist" uses it as their "resource".

As much as it may pain you to hear this; this post was not made with you, in mind. I posted this so that Americans would be aware of something in which their government is involved, in which in my opinion, they should not be involved.

I'll "fall in line" with giving the PA the benefit of the doubt and grudgingly turn a blind eye to the general issue of foreign aid but when the PA brought a known, confirmed terrorist organization back into the fold, in my opinion, the aid should be ceased; not re-affirmed.

I pointed no finger of blame at any particular politician (President Obama). I didn't paint all Democrats with the brush of being "pro-terrorist". If anything, I suggested that someone in the federal government was asleep at the wheel.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Post #: 11

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 12:52:16 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

As much as it may pain you to hear this; this post was not made with you, in mind.

Of course you didn't.... How can I EVER make this up to you?

Wait ... I know...
http://www.collarchat.com/m_4036600/mpage_2/tm.htm#

See post #36

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Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.

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Post #: 12

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 12:58:38 PM

SternSkipper

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Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

I'll "fall in line" with giving the PA the benefit of the doubt and grudgingly turn a blind eye to the general issue of foreign aid but when the PA brought a known, confirmed terrorist organization back into the fold, in my opinion, the aid should be ceased; not re-affirmed.

Not a matter to be first dealt with by the executive branch feel free to contact:

SpeakerBoehner at mail.house.gov

Based on everything we hear about this guy from the local cons. Getting this guy to refuse someone a request should be a breeze.

< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 2/20/2012 12:59:34 PM >

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Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.

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Post #: 13

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 1:15:54 PM

DaddySatyr

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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Absolutely! E-mail Speaker Boehner!

He can float a bill, move it out of committee, and send it to the Senate. That would be perfect!

Then, once the Senate has thoroughly debated the issue (and I'm praying for a suspension of fillibuster rules, here), they can vote on it and send it to the President to be signed.

Or ...

Someone at State can wake the fuck up and suggest to the president that this should not be going on and the president can issue an EO. I am not suggesting that the president is to blame. I am saying that he can take the swiftest action because he's the one in the chair.

I don't, for one minute, think that this was a conscious decision by any particular person. I think that it was a program that's been in place for over a year that needs to be re-examined in light of recent events.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to SternSkipper)

Post #: 14

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 1:45:17 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"One would have to have a heart of stone not to be appalled by the mass suffering visited upon the Gaza Strip by Israel’s punishing assault. If blame is to be assessed, however, it does not belong to Israel alone.

The Gaza war between Israel and Hamas is but another legacy of George W. Bush’s disastrous presidency. After Israel withdrew its soldiers and its 8,000 settlers from Gaza in the summer of 2005, the Bush administration decided to bring “democracy” to the Palestinians. It insisted on running a parliamentary election and allowing Hamas to compete.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/4212/hamas_gaza_and_bushs_legacy/

It's refreshing, to me, that you're consistent, at least. Blaming President Bush for the hostilities between the Arabs and Jews is like blaming President Obama for this country not being on the gold standard, anymore.

Nice try at a derail but the topic was the US, subsidizing a terrorist organization (By the way, this subsidy was started in 2010 so, don't try to blame it on President Bush, either).

Peace and comfort,

Michael

If the Kaffia fits.........?

I would say shoe but that got thrown.

Excuse us for bringing history into the discussion.

Here, you call for someone to do something,......... and what did that get you............ with bush?

See.....if something is bad (and there is no fucking doubt that that situation is bad),that doesn`t mean it couldn`t be made worse.......as your president bush proved so devastatingly well.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/20/2012 1:48:36 PM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Post #: 15

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 2:11:11 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If the Kaffia fits.........?

I would say shoe but that got thrown.

Excuse us for bringing history into the discussion.

Here, you call for someone to do something,......... and what did that get you............ with bush?

See.....if something is bad (and there is no fucking doubt that that situation is bad),that doesn`t mean it couldn`t be made worse.......as your president bush proved so devastatingly well.

History be damned. When this program was started (2010), President Bush was not in office, Hamas was not re-united with the PA, and we were in the midst (with no concrete, foreseeable end) of the worst financial crisis we've ever experienced.

Fuck history. This is happening now . Are we, as Americans, supposed to sit on our hands while our government gives financial aid to an enemy of an ally? It's really that simple.

I have made the point that up until a few weeks ago, this "government" (The PA) was not an enemy of an ally (That's contestable but, as I said; I'll pass on that argument). As soon as they welcomed Hamas back into the fold, they "threw in" with an organization that continues to call for (for all intents and purposes) the dissolution of Israel. Hamas has declared themselves an enemy of Israel.

It's a simple equation, really. And blaming history for something that has just happened in the last few weeks is the ostrich defense.

Because of world events, our government is now subsidizing a terrorist organization. It's that simple. Your attempt to obfuscate and put blame where it doesn't belong is beneath you.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Post #: 16

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 3:01:36 PM

SoftBonds

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How about we just stop providing foreign aid except in humanitarian emergencies?
Oh wait, foreign military aid is big business, and the lobbyists would never allow us to stop sending guns and bombs to both sides of the 1967 war...

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Post #: 17

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 3:05:56 PM

DaddySatyr

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

How about we just stop providing foreign aid except in humanitarian emergencies?
Oh wait, foreign military aid is big business, and the lobbyists would never allow us to stop sending guns and bombs to both sides of the 1967 war...

I'm an isolationist. I'm all for ceasing all foreign aid until we get our own house in order.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to SoftBonds)

Post #: 18

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 4:04:52 PM

Owner59

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For Israel also?

They have one of the biggest lobbys in DC.

Good luck with that.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/20/2012 4:06:40 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: If the Kaffia fits ... - 2/20/2012 4:54:43 PM

deathtothepixies

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DS
surely the world is so interconnected now that none of the big players can just withdraw from the rest of the world without seriously damaging themselves aswell, it doesn't matter whether it's aid or arms or food, it just can't be done. A solution has to be found that helps everyone. I have no idea what that solution is but my perspective is that the US backing of Israel is generally regarded as not a good thing

< Message edited by deathtothepixies -- 2/20/2012 4:55:01 PM >

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Post #: 20

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