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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/22/2012 11:50:08 AM   
Lockit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub1986katsu

i see i see, i did take it very seriously though. I took the punishment as serious as possible, though i put it on here in a fun loose way, i see you have taken the way i wrote it a bit harsh, i was putting it in a light way i guess.. hrmmm, but i did take seriousness to teh punishment and I made a good applogy..


How is the way we took your thread harsh? If you think that was harsh... hold on to your britches. Something we take seriously is something you seem to take very lightly. You may say you took it as seriously as possible and I might have to agree with you... it wasn't real possible. However pointing out to you that punishment is a serious matter and shouldn't be confused with funishment was harsh.

Maybe the next time you excitedly want to tell what happened to you and ask for more kinky examples of funishment... you will make sure your ducks are in a row and you aren't tapping into a serious matter. If you were misunderstood... it was because you misunderstand.


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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/22/2012 11:52:43 AM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub1986katsu

i see i see, i did take it very seriously though. I took the punishment as serious as possible, though i put it on here in a fun loose way, i see you have taken the way i wrote it a bit harsh, i was putting it in a light way i guess.. hrmmm, but i did take seriousness to teh punishment and I made a good applogy..


Grins.
I'm not trying to come off harsh-if ya took it that way, it wasn't intended so. :-)

I was just pointing out that for me, in my relationship and pretty much everyone I've been in, the physical act of the punishment is the least painful part-the real consequence is internal, those feelings of having disappointed, or worse hurt, the one they've given and dedicated themselves to is a brutal, thoroughly unpleasant thing.

Point of fact, most of the time I don't have to say a word. One look and she knows she fucked up and I don't have to do anything, because she'll pour so much internal vitriol on herself that pretty much anything I do to her is minimal in light of what she is doing to herself.

(Grins. Matter of fact, if I'm really really pissed or feeling like unusually cruel, as in "Look at what a flaming asshole I can be when I set my mind to it, " sorta mean, I don't say anything deliberately, just to watch her on the hook, twisting and in agony. I'm a real dick sometimes, know that?)

Now me, I use consequences for two reasons-1-corrective adjustments, which I've already discussed, but I also use them for 2-Absolution.
Once I've given a consequence, the act isn't mentioned again. It is not simply forgiven, it is wiped away is if it had never happened.

This is the case no matter what, unless she is consistently messing up the same thing, in which case the problem is either I'm a crappy dom, her willingness is lacking or we have a communication issue (Usually a combination of #'s 1 and 3).

Now, I can do nothing, in which case she is gonna internally rake herself over the coals until I forgive her, which sometimes is as easy as saying, "You're forgiven." Other times, acts of contrition work better. I give a consequence (Which she hopes is quick, because until then her fuck up is fair game and I can tease and heckle her all day long until she's paid the piper...and trust me, I do. I am a maestro of the verbal needle. I can make her squirm and twist with nothing but words forever.), she undergoes the corrective procedures, and then she knows her error is cleansed and said cleansing is paid for,not grudgingly given, and then she can walk free and clean away from whatever error occurred and that she is forgiven absolutely, which is a pretty good feeling.

But it don't involve beating her own "girl meat" and it certainly ain't for my pleasure...cuz you know what? I'll whisper you a secret-Kana, the big bad sadist, Mr "Huff and Puff and blow your house down then storm in and rape you blind" man, he hates punishing.
Why should I like it?
If I want to hurt her, I don't need an excuse. I just say, "Kneel and take it, bitch." I mean, WTF else own a slave if she can't make ya happy.

But punishment, now that means emotional stuff, dealing with messy feelings, having discussions (And we all know how much men hate them) and that my life, or at least my feelings, have been knocked far enough off the rail that she needs adjusting. And that sucks, because, like most folk, I prefer my days to run smooth and trouble free and I certainly don't like undergoing emotional turmoil.
So when I hear people speaking blithely re "punishment" it makes me wonder what they are discussing, cuz it sure as hell don't come anywhere close to what it works like for me, or what I've witnessed with others over the years.

< Message edited by Kana -- 2/22/2012 12:18:34 PM >


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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/22/2012 11:55:30 AM   
ScatteredRose


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^

Agreed.
Any Master/Mistress/Dom/me who ENJOYS punishment, probably is misunderstanding what the phrase means...

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/22/2012 12:05:45 PM   
sub1986katsu


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hrmm to all, i see, i see.. I dont take the punishment lightly like said above or over. It wasnt meant to be fun as a punishment.. all in all this is all interesting lessions from you all and this is a great discussion. :)

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/23/2012 1:44:20 AM   
RaspberryLemon


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My Master uses positive reinforcement whenever possible. It is preferable to him and produces better results. On punishment, it's a serious thing, not fun at all. Knowing I have failed him is enough to send me into the deepest of despair. This is said very well here:
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLockitsKnyt
Punishment denotes having disappointed. When I disappoint one I am submitting to, I am ashamed. How can there be a favorite punishment for that?
Honestly, realizing that I messed up or did something wrong and the feelings associated with that are punishment enough for me. My Master knows that I desire to please and obey, and that simply understanding where I went wrong is enough to reform my behavior in most (if not all) cases. Coupled with my honesty in my mistakes, which is greatly appreciated by my Master, punishment is practically a foreign concept to me. In his mind, punishment would only be necessary if whatever offense happened was made with malicious intent rather than simply forgetfulness or mistake--and the offense must thus be something serious, a nasty affront to his authority and our relationship.

That being said, I have never received a severe punishment (that was intentionally and actively executed by him), and only ever received one mild punishment (that was intentionally and actively executed by him) for some moody and less-than-respectful behavior that crossed a bit too far over the line. This punishment involved the removal of a privilege, and was mostly a warning to show me he is not to be fucked with. But in all honesty, the harshest part of that punishment was merely the disappointment on his face and the knowledge that I had not been a good girl. I want to be good for him. I want him to be pleased with me. Knowing that I failed at that is awful. That shame, that failure, it is a horrible feeling. This is the same feeling I get any time I don't live up to his expectations. Thus, there can never be a favorite punishment, nor a punishment "mixed in with a bit of reward" as you so chose to put it, OP. That feeling will never accompany anything good, rewarding, or nice. It's terrible and it's more than enough to motivate me to do my absolute best for him at all times.

My favorite reward? His satisfaction. A simple pat on the head and a "good girl" makes me the happiest person alive.

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/23/2012 2:19:19 AM   
DesFIP


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We don't have a punishment dynamic. Excepting one time when he gave me a few light swats so I could cry it out and get the guilt out, every other time he could have chosen to punish has turned out to be a result of miscommunication. This in nearly nine years. Every single time.

So should I be punished for not understanding how he meant something? Or should he be punished for not explaining in such a manner that I took it another way? And what would that teach me?

The rest of the stuff has always been better addressed by problem solving so I know what to do the next time such a situation occurs.


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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/23/2012 6:07:01 AM   
DarkSteven


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sub1986katsu, there are two different dynamics here, and you're mixing them.

Play is great. It's enjoyable by both parties.

Punishment is not. It's done only if the sub has done something wrong. It's supposed to hurt the sub, emotionally and/or physically, to drive home the message of "don't do that again". if the sub enjoys it, he or she will act out to try to get more, and its purpose is defeated - it becomes a game.

I would hesitate to disclose how I punish my sub. First, because it's individual - an introverted sub might actually enjoy some isolation while an extroverted sub would be devastated by it. But I also feel like that punishments should be private.

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/23/2012 7:03:43 AM   
hellionsLight


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I don't have a favorite punishment - ....you're not supposed to like being punished. Should it teach you a lesson? *confused*

The one that WORKS the best is taking my computer time away. It sucks.

REWARDS? I like candy. Sex is nice too, if I'm all worked up.

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/23/2012 7:13:20 AM   
poise


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub1986katsu

I’m here to ask a question on punishment and reward.

I think the hardest punishments are those that we self impose on ourselves.
I've recently had some injuries to my knee (and then my ankle, and then my toes!)
which made my normal day to day activities a challenge, and it stressed me out.
I resented myself for the fact that I could barely get around to bring him his coffee,
and it wasn't that he expected it of me in my condition, but that I expected it of me.
It hurt me in more ways than any physical punishment could.

Of course, he managed to get me over feeling useless with lots of funishment,
but I'll be damned if I hurt my knee again just to get such a reward.


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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/23/2012 7:17:30 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub1986katsu

well im very interested lockit :D:D

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/23/2012 10:14:34 AM   
littleone35


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If you enjoy punishment then it will not have the desired effect, you will act out agein cause you enjoyed it.  It is not supposed to br enjoyed it is suppose to correct he behavior that caused the punishment.  In the 6 years we have been togehter he has only had ot punishh me three times.  I am the first to admit i earned the punishments.  We work on corporal punishment  i like spankings but not punishment spaknings they hurt.  So what i did to earn the spankings i never repeated  it stuck ith me.

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/23/2012 1:27:13 PM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLockitsKnyt

Punishment denotes having disappointed. When I disappoint one I am submitting to, I am ashamed. How can there be a favorite punishment for that?


Definitely. There's nothing fun about knowing I've disappointed my partner and failed to uphold my part of the relationship. It hurts, and is way more upsetting than physical pain would be.

Now, "ooh, you've been naughty and need a spanking *wink wink*" sort of play can be fun, but that's something else entirely!

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/23/2012 1:51:15 PM   
Cuffkinks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Now me, I use consequences for two reasons-1-corrective adjustments, which I've already discussed, but I also use them for 2-Absolution.
Once I've given a consequence, the act isn't mentioned again. It is not simply forgiven, it is wiped away is if it had never happened.



Kana...Get out of my head, man. LOL!
But seriously, that's exactly as it should be, and exactly as it is for us too. If something ever had to be taken to that level of correction, then once it's over, it's over. As you said, "It's not simply forgiven, it is wiped away as if it never happened." Never to be brought up again.
Then comes the positive reinforcement. Then it's time to hold her while she sobs and tell her how much I love her and how much she pleases me and how proud I am of her. I always end a punishment on a positive note. Put the pieces back together, so to speak. It's been six years and I've never had to repeat any "correction" I've dished out.

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/28/2012 1:12:15 AM   
fallon0627


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I like spankings, but with that said I am not fond of the cane. He will use the cane when punishment is needed. Also enema's have been used; I was given mercy and didn't have to take a gallon enema and then sit at waffle house for a hour, because I was so contrite and practiced holding a enema several times before my punishment was to take place. Enemas and holding one in public would definitely make me think twice before I break a rule again.

And if i want or need a spanking i can always ask for it.

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/28/2012 4:17:03 AM   
kitkat105


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Well there's the "Excuse me, you're being cheeky/bratty" look (this is the warning look); and then there's the "I'm very disappointed in you" which will crush my insides. I'm been threatened with corner time or simply not being allowed to hang out.

Physical stuff is merely 'funishment' for a masochist. Denial of certain things (ie. orgasms) is pretty hawt too!



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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/28/2012 9:30:23 AM   
Rochsub2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

That's not punishment....it's funishment.



I agree. I think the OP views "punishment" as something that is enjoyable.

With my last Domme, the rules were pretty simple. If I did what She instructed me to do, my reward was that I got to continue serving Her. If I disobeyed even the smallest command, the punishment was immediate banishment with no hope of forgiveness or return. That was the worst punishment of all.

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/28/2012 11:12:44 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitkat105


Physical stuff is merely 'funishment' for a masochist.


Not always. I'm masochist and they are still physical things that don't feel pleasurable.


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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/28/2012 2:58:26 PM   
MariaB


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I never physically punish. When the fun stops it stops and its that simple. I'm a sadist and if I got to give a judicial caning as a punishment, of course I would enjoy it. I mean, I could say, 'this is going to hurt me as much as it hurts you' or 'punishing you isn't something that gives me any pleasure' but I would be lying through my teeth
I also believe that a submissive enjoys the fear and trepidation of being physically punished. Whilst they may hate the act of punishment, the thought that it could happen is highly erotic. Nothing wrong with that but those are the reasons I don't physically punish because for me at least it would be funishment covered up with the word punishment.

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RE: Punishment and rewards - 2/28/2012 3:05:32 PM   
hausboy


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I agreed with OsideGirl and some of what the others have said.

To the OP: your Domme may have called it "punishment" and it may have caused you physical discomfort, but it certainly doesn't sound like punishment. It's perfectly OKAY to admit you enjoyed it--that's why many of us DO this stuff.

I'm a masochist and I absolutely love funishment. The Sir and Dommes I play with also enjoy it, and we all have a shared love for corrective measures--they dish it out, I take it. We negotiate our play and funishment ahead of time-- my Sir also knows what I don't enjoy as much. If I break a House rule, misbehave, am late or give him reason for more serious corrective measures beyond the typical attitude adjustments and maintenance spanking, I know that it's going to be in the form of something that I'm going to endure....but enjoy a whole lot less. A severe caning is a perfect example....or a paddling that is much harder and with a more severe implement.

Those types of corrective measures aren't enjoyable, they are meant to teach me a lesson, change a behavior or make me repentant for something I've done. True, I do consent to receive them--and in the end (no pun intended) I am appreciative and grateful that he or she cares enough to discipline me, and I can tell you that when it's punishment (and not funishment), I'm not going to repeat the offense
and I'm not about to go bragging about it.

And like so many others here, if I do something that truly is upsetting to my Sir or Domme, a physical punishment is not necessary--being told that I've upset or disappointed him or her would be the worst thing ever--no external pain could ever come close.

My Sir often tells me that a boy who needs a spanking needs only to ask for one. A boy who won't ask respectfully....will spend the day cleaning the toys but never get a single stroke.

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