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RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 8:10:47 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
OP. just letting you know, as a Dominant man, I tend to fee protective toward a sub woman that is new to the scene.

I'll go you one further... I tend to feel protective towards women in general. It doesn't really matter if they're mine or not, sub or not. It just matters that they are female. Yup, that's a terribly sexist way for me to feel but there ya have it. Within limits, I want to keep my eye out for pretty much everyone I rub elbows with... male or female although the females get preference on that. It isn't a BDSM thing. It's how I was raised.

All I can say is that the OP's got her own karma coming on this one. Next step is the self-fulfilling prophecy part. Third step is where she blames BDSM people for all being asshats. Perhaps a decade from now she passes a mirror and sees the actual common denominator.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 41

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 8:32:27 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: curious23
Kana, you said:
"it's the net, an open forum and you have an open profile. Why do you care what idiots write? Delete and move on, end of story."

I'm not sure if you noticed but I don't live in a vacuum and my actions may indeed influence what happens to others. That's the point of this entire thread. While I'm not trying to make the choices of others subs, I am trying to see what I can write to prevent a problem that others might be facing. Sure I could just ignore the issue as if it doesn't exist but I don't do that. Not in any other facet in my life, either. I don't ignore the needy. I don't ignore the rude (unless attention only makes the problem worse), and I don't ignore confrontation. Sure, it's an easy way out to ignore but it gets you intellectually no where. My goal with the post was to perhaps make a difference about what people write and how they conduct themselves.

The technical term for what you are doing here is called Tilting with Windmills.

People are idiots. A certain percentage of them are gonna be wingnuts no matter what. Even worse, the net provides anonymity, which allows some folks to grow balls and do/act/communicate in ways they would never have the huevos to in real life.
There ain't nothing no one can do to change that-it's the human condition.

Here's a few counter thoughts
1-The vast majority of forum folk are the opposite of your target audience. The folks you are writing to/about lurk almost exclusively on the the side...you know, where they can prey. So basically what you are doing here is preaching to the choir
2-Maybe it's just me, but IJMO and all, but folks don't need protecting. WE are, presumably according to TOS, adults here. It's presumptive, arrogant and kinda downright rude to assume that others aren't capable of making their own decisions, making choices and calls for themselves and that they need your input to do so...and it's far far more presumptive for a stranger to appoint themselves a guardian
3-You never ignore rudeness? As in never? Hoookay-you must be one busy soul running round fixing and correcting people, most of whom don't want fixing and will be displeased with the suggestion they might be amiss. Now me, I choose my battles, a trick I learned as I got older, and one of those things is that I never get involved with things that resemble Pickett's Charge.
4-Idiots are idiots and that ain't gonna change. I used to have a prof whose #1 rule in life was, "Never argue with a fanatic, you've got better things to do with your breath."
An accurate statement, one that seriously applies here if you substitute ass-hats for fanatics.
5-All that said, you wanna go out and try and save the world-good luck to you and kudos.
To quote Billy and Carol, "You kids have fun storming the castle."

< Message edited by Kana -- 2/24/2012 8:33:24 AM >

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to curious23)

Post #: 42

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 1:11:50 PM

Endivius

Posts: 1238
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline

ah kana, +2 cool points for the princess bride reference.

_____________________________

Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 43

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 1:22:41 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: curious23
Engaging in a conversation about safety is not the same as sending an obligatory "Be careful". And the "Be careful" was what I referenced along with Duh-advice (it could get scary, etc...). I hope you can see the difference.

They felt concerned enough to send a word of warning. They weren't attracted enough to engage in conversation. I hope you can understand the difference.

But really, go on craigslist to find what you're seeking. You could get it tonight. Just please don't come back and whine when you have a punctured eardrum and a detached retina and you need surgery to repair a torn anus. Because you claim to know it all, so surely you know what the risks are.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to curious23)

Post #: 44

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 1:48:44 PM

curious23

Posts: 59
Joined: 12/8/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: curious23
Engaging in a conversation about safety is not the same as sending an obligatory "Be careful". And the "Be careful" was what I referenced along with Duh-advice (it could get scary, etc...). I hope you can see the difference.

They felt concerned enough to send a word of warning. They weren't attracted enough to engage in conversation. I hope you can understand the difference.

But really, go on craigslist to find what you're seeking. You could get it tonight. Just please don't come back and whine when you have a punctured eardrum and a detached retina and you need surgery to repair a torn anus. Because you claim to know it all, so surely you know what the risks are.

Pretty typical response actually.
"However I see that you totally missed my point about the men wanting to engage you in conversation first about safety in order to determine if you are a safe person for them to play with."

That's what you said in your original post, bringing up the mens' desire to converse with me YOURSELF. Then you criticize my following comment but saying the men weren't attracted enough to engage in conversation. A standard YOU brought up that I was addressing and that was the whole point to my post to you is now null. Then you end it with a "Do whatever you want. Just don't come crying to me when..." And I know in some warped way you think you're doing me a favor by wishing me luck in a scenario that'll probably end in the worst possible way it your eyes. If nothing else, your post is just a really good example of the 'helpful' mail I get so it's pretty welcome. Hey, maybe everyone here thinks what you said is perfectly reasonable. But I hope they, especially unnecessarily watchful Doms like Jeff, can see how stupid it is to be this way.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 45

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 2:02:54 PM

DomMeinCT

Posts: 2355
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

ah kana, +2 cool points for the princess bride reference.

And another +2 to kana for that!

_____________________________

The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances:
if there is any reaction, both are transformed.
~ Carl Jung

(in reply to Endivius)

Post #: 46

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 2:04:14 PM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

There were many pertinent reasons why a man would be protective mentioned on this thread. Men generally like to be that way, it's kind of who they are. Even in BDSM when they're beating our asses, they can stop and check to see if their partner is ok...and they should. I'm not sure what the revelation is here that men ask about if someone is sure, or tries to help in a protective way, it's an instinct tha'ts been reinforced by society. To my way of thinking it's not so much patronizing or treating the recipients as though they're stupid, it's just what men do. It's kind of their job.

We're talking about in your case about you being a submissive female looking for a Dominant male. In that type of situation, it pretty much gets a guy off to think that he's capable of hurting you, for him to say "Gosh you know, that might hurt" is the protective thing and it's also him getting a little thrill at the thought of doing it. A little bit of ego stroking there, big deal. Women like for the most part to feel pretty and unique, guys like to be the wielders of destruction....same result, different routes. What guy doesn't puff up a bit at the sight of his woman walking funny the next day after a long night of passion?

A big thing in D/s is becoming someone's property and that entails taking care of it. We'd crucify a guy who went headfirst into kink with no thought to the submissive woman there with him as far as her safety. What's the big deal if someone wants to start off on the right foot as being a caretaker of his property? Guys put a lot of stock into calling something "Mine". Have you ever watched a man wash his car? Do I need to even go any further with this comparison with that image in mind?

There are plenty of things that Dominant guys do out there that have the power to frustrate me, asking me about my decision to engage in risky kink isn't one of those things as it actually makes sense. Honestly....lots of guys aren't really good with talking to women cold, maybe this is a way of making conversation. Kind of like talking about the weather. It doesn't necessarily come off to me as condescending or patronizing. I'm kind of with Jeff on wondering why you see it that way and I also look at the opposite view, I'd not be interested at all in a guy who had no thoughts for me or my needs or safety.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 47

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 2:12:18 PM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

I understand your indignation as to how some of us are reacting to your post, but I stand by my original post on this thread. What you have described reflects a lack of understanding of both anal sex and rape play. I'm sorry, but that's how it reads to me. Your original post does not support the notion that you are knowledgable about these two things, and I've explained as much in my prior post. So it is up to you about whether you want to learn or not.

Again, you are free to seek the play you want, under the terms you want, with the people that you want. But, as someone who knows about the type of play that you seek, I am personally not convinced that you are that knowledgable. And there is nothing in anything that you've posted here, or in your profile to suggest otherwise.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to curious23)

Post #: 48

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 2:56:25 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: curious23
But I hope they, especially unnecessarily watchful Doms like Jeff, can see how stupid it is to be this way.

Oh rest assured. I definitely feel schooled by a 23 year old. My eyes are opened to utter craziness of caring about people. I'm reminded of the T-Shirt:

Quick, Hire a teenager while they still know everything!

Look, I get it that it personally offends you. Actually, I'm fairly certain that most anything personally offends you. But I also understand that my behavior does not offend some other people. In fact, there's at least one or two who think I'm an OK guy (not counting Carol). So perhaps it's not that I'm "stupid". Perhaps it's just that I'm a poor match for you? Oh wait. In your world that probably equates to "stupid", doesn't it?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to curious23)

Post #: 49

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 4:54:51 PM

MetalJoe

Posts: 6
Joined: 1/21/2012
Status: offline

While I'm a firm believer in letting people make their own stupid mistakes if they want to make them, this whole thread seems pretty silly to me. You are taking offense to being given information by people more experienced than you. If that's not welcome why are you even here? You may not be stupid but you certainly are needlessly stubborn.

Oh and I think you're an ok guy Jeff. At least from what I've read lurking these forums.

< Message edited by MetalJoe -- 2/24/2012 4:56:19 PM >

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 50

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 5:01:32 PM

sincelo

Posts: 122
Joined: 12/30/2011
Status: offline

I think it is different if you are talking with someone and have developed a friendly rapport with a person and then have them in conversation say something along the lines of "have you thought that through because ____" but it is another to have a complete stranger randomly send you mail wanting to warn you. I haven't looked at the OPs profile and it sounds like it is a bit off kilter but I still think as a stranger it is off putting to contact someone to "protect them" from themselves. I used to get mail all of the time warning me of predators here on collarme and such crap. I think it is a poor pick up line.

_____________________________

(in reply to MetalJoe)

Post #: 51

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 5:16:39 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

I don't know where men on this site get this attitude. They did it to me a lot, too, when I had an active profile up, and I think I'm much older than you. There seem to be a lot of very inexperienced guys on here who are taking a wild guess at what will seem dominant to women--and guessing wrong a lot of the time. Yeah, it can be offputting and kind of depressing, too. I've always found though that I have much more interesting conversations with men who intrigued me who I contacted first. Even if (and I have been known to do this) I choose a man totally at random and start to correspond with him, the ensuing email conversation tends to be a lot less stupid than the stuff that came in regularly to my inbox.

Yes I think you are hurting your chances by putting an "I'm not stupid!" statement in your profile. The reason is that occasionally very smart and experienced dominant men will come by your profile and if they see a statement like that on it they might think, "She's just another one of those angry, reactive submissive females, out of control of her emotions and trying to punish people she doesn't even know for the sins of the goofballs who have contacted her in inappropriate ways." You don't want to turn away that sort of man, you want to attract and encourage him, so keep the public profile clean and clear of any signs of ill temper, frustration, venting, negativity of any sort. You know how you feel a sort of disgust and desire to get away when you see a dominant man whining away in his journal all about the bitches who won't answer him? Well that's what others might feel toward you if you have negative stuff in your profile. It makes a person go, "Hmm... sounds like she has a pretty negative attitude. I bet she isn't worth writing." It can make the few good people not write--and then you're left with nothing but the losers.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to curious23)

Post #: 52

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 6:18:38 PM

Casteele

Posts: 655
Joined: 12/10/2011
From: Near Sacramento, California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

Yes I think you are hurting your chances by putting an "I'm not stupid!" statement in your profile. The reason is that occasionally very smart and experienced dominant men will come by your profile and if they see a statement like that on it they might think, "She's just another one of those angry, reactive submissive females, out of control of her emotions and trying to punish people she doesn't even know for the sins of the goofballs who have contacted her in inappropriate ways." You don't want to turn away that sort of man, you want to attract and encourage him, so keep the public profile clean and clear of any signs of ill temper, frustration, venting, negativity of any sort. You know how you feel a sort of disgust and desire to get away when you see a dominant man whining away in his journal all about the bitches who won't answer him? Well that's what others might feel toward you if you have negative stuff in your profile. It makes a person go, "Hmm... sounds like she has a pretty negative attitude. I bet she isn't worth writing." It can make the few good people not write--and then you're left with nothing but the losers.

Not just the smart, experienced and caring people.. Even the rude, asshole, thinks-they-know-it-alls like me are put off by profiles with much negativity, excessive rules, do's and don't, etc. Well, okay, maybe that's not such a good example as I'm sure those kind of profiles are meant to get guys like me to go look for easier pickin's :-P Seriously though, I like how you presented this.

Like it or hate it, agree or disagree with it, the flat reality is that how you present something really does matter. And so does how it is received--and the two are rarely in equity. When I first came here, the reactions I received towards the profile I had at the time really surprised me as they were not at all what I had expected, not at all indicative that people were seeing me the same way I thought I was advertising myself. When I started asking some of those people how they read my profile and what they saw, I started to see it myself, and wiped my profile out. It's still mostly blank because I am still working on getting something up that at least represents who I really am; I've got a couple dozen composed on my computer that I've been trying to tweak until one seems at least presentable. It's a lot harder than I thought it would be at first.

Point is, all too often I see people complain so much about how others react to them and what they write, and so rarely do they bother to take time to stop and look at their own presentation. Yet, what is the common denominator? All those people who react in a similar way? We have so many different personality types here, different life experiences, different viewpoints, that I the only thing I can see that they all have in common with each other that they'd react in a similar manner, is the person they are reacting to. Besides, ultimately, you cannot really control how others will react to you, but you can control how you present yourself, and hope to encourage a favorable reaction.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 53

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 7:13:57 PM

Arturas

Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

1) So I'm just wondering if this attitude is just the Dominant condition that I have to just get use to because that's how Doms are (I'm well aware that they can be protective and go into mentor-mode at the drop of a hat)

2) or is this something that I shouldn't tollerate ever?

3) And if it's not to be tolerated, am I, or any sub for that matter, doing myself or his/herself any favors by stating ahead of time that I'm not a "dumb doormat who, like, isn't educated and stuff"?

1) It is not a Dom condition. Here are some real "dom condtions" in this context of caring:
* Making sure he packed a pair of blunt pointed medical style sissors to cut you out of his shibari rope quickly if needed.
* Making sure crushed ice or drinking water for you is within his quick reach while you are bound before him.
* Making sure there is water in case there is an accident with the candles.
* Making sure to never leave you while you are helpless.

2) No. (OOPS, changing this to "yes" you should not tolerate this)

3) No. I personally hate that cliche "doormat" and besides the real dom already knows this and will treat you accordingly.

So, no worries. You are right to doubt the lines fed you so far. These guys are players and you have not met the real thing. Until now.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 2/24/2012 7:21:19 PM >

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to curious23)

Post #: 54

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 7:16:51 PM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

"Until now"...

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 55

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 7:32:38 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

Inconceivable!

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 56

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 7:52:47 PM

NiteWing2000

Posts: 28
Joined: 1/29/2011
Status: offline

quote:

I'm NOT stupid!

To the OP

If you really have to post it hear and ask the question then, yes you are. Just sayin

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 57

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 8:13:02 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

So, no worries. You are right to doubt the lines fed you so far. These guys are players and you have not met the real thing. Until now.

Shit. I'll have to go tell my submissive that I'm not a weal twue Dom. She'll be crushed. And all those folks in my local community will be amazed at your online perceptiveness.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 58

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 9:04:22 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: curious23

I couldn't help but notice a lot of subs writing this on their profile and I even have something on my own profile telling guys not to patronize me. Men are so quick to ask me if I've thought my kink through and if I know the repercussions of it and always end whatever conversation with a "be careful" as if I just blindly decided I was into something without doing any research. The first thing that comes to mind is that I'm not an idiot here. Just like you have bothered to learn about what YOU'RE into, so have I. But while you've accessed information about it, you seem to think I'm incapable of doing so without being told to. But sometimes I wonder if stating that I'm not dumb on my profile is helping or hurting me and my prospects.

I'm reminded of a teenager telling their parents or another adult "I'm not like dumb and stuff so don't treat me like I'm a kid!" and the adult going "Sure you're not sweetie...sure you're not." I just feel like stating that you're not an idiot only gives folks a reason to believe you are one because you actually feel the need to clarify it in the first place just in case there was any confusion. It falls under the same notions of "I'm NOT insane!" "I'm NOT unreasonable!" "I'm NOT uneducated!" The mere snifter of someone trying to convince me they're not crazy makes me want to take a few steps back and talk really slowly...just in case.

At first I gave men the benefit of the doubt but you would not believe the patronizing mails I get. And there are SO many. "You do realize that anal sex will hurt for the first time, right?" Really? REALLY? You felt the need to explain that to me and call your intentions noble? If anything, you insult me.

I find myself becoming somewhat of a cynic as I stay here, which scares me. I don't want to hate men. But goddamn it, so many of them think I was born yesterday and that turns me off of them. Especially older guys. I have no issue with older men but they tend to think I don't know anything at all about the very thing I want. I want to hold all the men who treat me like this but there are SO many men that do. In fact, I can't think of one message I've gotten that doesn't come off as condescending aside from "Hello, how are you?".

So I'm just wondering if this attitude is just the Dominant condition that I have to just get use to because that's how Doms are (I'm well aware that they can be protective and go into mentor-mode at the drop of a hat) or is this something that I shouldn't tollerate ever? And if it's not to be tolerated, am I, or any sub for that matter, doing myself or his/herself any favors by stating ahead of time that I'm not a "dumb doormat who, like, isn't educated and stuff"?

Or maybe I've got this all wrong and there really are a lot of subs who don't know anything about what they seek, making the Doms' actions totally necessary in most cases....any advice is appreciated.

I only have 3 things to say:

1) Have you thought your kink through?

2) Have you considered the repercussions of this?

3) Be careful.

(in reply to curious23)

Post #: 59

RE: I'm NOT stupid! - 2/24/2012 9:26:26 PM

jennileigh8182

Posts: 173
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

So, no worries. You are right to doubt the lines fed you so far. These guys are players and you have not met the real thing. Until now.

Shit. I'll have to go tell my submissive that I'm not a weal twue Dom. She'll be crushed. And all those folks in my local community will be amazed at your online perceptiveness.

Awwww, but DS!! You KNOW you're the ultimate fantasy Dom for so many of us!

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 60

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