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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 8:08:51 PM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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Well apparently, a misandryst and a feminazi is a term used when one says that everyone should be responsible for their own actions. Even men. Even women. Everyone.
At least that's what I got out of the name calling directed at me in the other thread.

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A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

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(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 41

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 8:09:32 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

If they can't grasp that feminism is about equaility with men, and with liberation, then they simply fail. They don't get to go to university. That is nonsense. If it isn't about equality with men, and freedom, then it isn't feminism.

What you refer to, essentially has no name here. It's the status quo. Has been for a while. What we're into now, is called "feminine politics" or "women's issues" or the like, depending on how you translate the set of words used (by themselves, about themselves; and by everyone else). Every institution, political party and so forth has a department that is solely concerned with that.

It's what makes us arrest Romani which come to Norway, as the age of consent is lower where they're from, making their marriages illegal here, so they're held on "human trafficking" charges for being married. When their wives cry and beg to have their husbands returned to them so they can leave the country, we send their children to foster care, and the wives either get left on the streets to beg (it takes a while to get citizenship if you're not a refugee or the like), or they're remanded to psychiatric care, so that the gravity of their abuse can be "explained" to them. Sometimes that requires forcible medication and intensive therapy, but they eventually realize they've been traumatized, of course.

That's the mild version.

Then there's feminism. Not so mild. Feminism is about doctrine and ideology.

And it ranges from things like legislating against homemakers, to androcide as a means of societal improvement (while waiting for genetic science to arrive at the point where the Y chromosome can be made obsolete, whereupon the previously culled breeding stock can be euthanized in their cells).

Presumably, such extreme, radical fringes aren't visible in areas where there are actual equality issues to be concerned with. But a body that exists to effect social change does not end itself when its goals have been accomplished. It keeps going, and the recruiting is adjusted. Enter the word 'misandry', a popular trait in some circles. The emphasis changes, the goals change, and things keep going. The law of inertia applied at a societal level. And this keeps exerting a force on society, winding up the pendulum. Much as I'm for consequences being used as a means of instruction, I neither want to see how far it'll be wound, nor how the backswing will look.

I'm simplifying something complex, nuanced and multifaceted, of course.

But I'm not pulling this out of my ass.

The crazy thing is, if we could've gone with meritocracy from the start, neither blacks nor women would have been an issue in regards to suffrage, equality and so forth. But meritocracy is as much of a bad word here as communism is in the USA. Maybe as bad as it was during the Cold War era. Equality here, now, is about fitting all the square, round, triangular and star shaped pegs through the trapezoid hole, beating down any differences that might be perceived (real or not) until they are no longer perceived (e.g. due to being suppressed, or the tall poppies having been cropped). Equal opportunity, on the other hand, isn't a concern anymore. That's not important. Unless it's ridiculously obvious that you lack opportunities (e.g. being blind), in which case you're padded to fit (e.g. a blind librarian with two full time assistants that enable him to do that job, both state covered; I shit you not). 50 years of socialism is getting to be on the long side, especially with a majority voting against socialism for the past 10-15 years or so, but I digress...

There's some good bits here, and some bad bits.

What you won't find, is a woman treated according to her merits, or another woman that cares.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 42

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 8:13:16 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

My apologies to Aswad. I keep trying to be more discerning and to grow a beard, but I can't seem to manage either.:-(

Assokay (sp?)... I'm up late, too... 5am here now, and I'm fixing dinner.

Health,
al-Aswad the Unbearded (presently).

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 43

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 8:17:57 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

So, does this mean feminazi, the term, should come under the ruling by Mod 21?

I haven't seem Mod 21's ruling .... so I'm unable to answer that. Nonetheless, it would take a certain type of person to use the term knowing that many people are going to take it as advertising the user's own mental health insecurities and chronic inadequacies rather than the user's intended meaning wouldn't you say?

While it's unlikely to kill off using the term permanently, it will mean that any future user will make an even bigger laughing stock of himself than might previously have been the case.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/24/2012 8:21:39 PM >

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Post #: 44

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 8:23:56 PM

SoftBonds

Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Just as well, I would be compelled to pluck it out hair by hair.

I am a dinosaur, Kalik! I recall being appalled at so many young women declaring that they were not feminists, and wondering what sea change had been wrought in the school system that they could be so...stupid. I am still appalled.

Again, I'm with Hibbie. What the fuck do they think, it's a guarantee now? Appalled and pissed off. Stupid doesn't even begin to cover it.

Yeah, but some feminists had sons, and raised those sons to seek equality for all too. So you have some allies in the Y chromosome crowd...
Even if I do like the idea of a woman on her knees for me (by her choice).

(in reply to Aynne88)

Post #: 45

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 8:28:12 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Just as well, I would be compelled to pluck it out hair by hair.

I am a dinosaur, Kalik! I recall being appalled at so many young women declaring that they were not feminists, and wondering what sea change had been wrought in the school system that they could be so...stupid. I am still appalled.

Again, I'm with Hibbie. What the fuck do they think, it's a guarantee now? Appalled and pissed off. Stupid doesn't even begin to cover it.

Yeah, but some feminists had sons, and raised those sons to seek equality for all too. So you have some allies in the Y chromosome crowd...
Even if I do like the idea of a woman on her knees for me (by her choice).

As it happens, many men find it extremely hot to have a strong willed woman at their feet. By choice, I happen to enjoy being there.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SoftBonds)

Post #: 46

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 8:32:58 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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Having a choice is the whole point, choice backed by opportunity. Older generations of women continue to support atrotcities like child marriage and genital mutilation because it's all they know. An uneducated population has few options.

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Post #: 47

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 8:46:42 PM

SoftBonds

Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Having a choice is the whole point, choice backed by opportunity. Older generations of women continue to support atrotcities like child marriage and genital mutilation because it's all they know. An uneducated population has few options.

Not to get depressing on you, but how many people can this planet support? We have had to use factory farms, and are now irrigating deserts, to increase food production. I don't know that we can keep increasing it forever.
But there is a solution. One way that has been proven to lower birth rates and allow humanity to fit on the planet and enjoy our lives.
Guess what it is?
Educating Women!
The more you educate women, the more opportunities they have, the more control they have over their lives, the more they can choose to have the children they can support when they want to have children.
Hence why Birth rates in the US, Canada, Europe, and Australia have dropped to replacement levels (or a little less, but that will self-correct in time).
So you see, I have selfish reasons for wanting equal rights for women, saving the planet is selfish, right?

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 48

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 8:50:32 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Again, I'm with Hibbie. What the fuck do they think, it's a guarantee now? Appalled and pissed off. Stupid doesn't even begin to cover it.

Things have a tendency to be taken for granted when they're on hand. Only the ones that really care, continue to do so when the need to care is gone. And let's face it, freedom isn't high on people's list of priorities when they're comfortable, whether it's freedom for their particular demographic, or freedom for people in general.

Freedom, respect and power are three things which can only be taken, not given.

Up here, we've never fought for our any of those, most of us. And we don't really have them. We have what we're given, and are content with that. Such will be the case with women's rights around the world, as well, with whole generations growing up without any notion of what it costs to be free. You've secured the legislation for those rights, but not the foundation. That, you've scorched. Unintentionally, to be sure. But it's something to correct, while you still can. Before you, too, start accepting bread crumbs from the table. And going by recent legislative developments, that won't be long.

Such is the "beauty" of H. sapiens domesticated.

Take some groups of these girls to Yemen, Somalia, Nigeria, Iran, Afghanistan and other such. Let them see what it's like without what they have, up close and personal. It's a different perspective when leaving the group is inviting a kidnapping and possibly more. When baring your hands might get you executed in a country which doesn't have an extradition treaty. Visit a secret school for girls, one of those where they risk being tortured to death for even attending, let alone arranging it. Have an interpreter that will let them ask these girls why they're doing it, and what they hope to accomplish. Returning home, the girls may just appreciate what they have, what it's worth, and what it's worth doing to keep it.

Of course, that would be dangerous.

And domesticated animals don't do dangerous if they can avoid it.

Because regaining an appreciation for the value of freedom wouldn't be worth that risk, right?

Health,
al-Aswad.

P.S.: Don't take this as implying men are any better on this point, particularly my generation and younger.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Aynne88)

Post #: 49

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 9:09:23 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Women's suffrage hasn't been around for a century yet, has it? The culture of entitlement is based on ignorance.

Wimmens own the goddamn game.

Beginning and end.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 50

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 9:13:44 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Do you spend much time on Fetl, Kalikshama? I am, evidently, a feminazi, and so is any woman who shows herself to have an opinion that is different from a man's, or in any way criticises the behavior of any man, anywhere, at any time.

I am a second-wave (?) feminist, I was formed by all that 70's equal pay for equal work stuff, and I have found that I'm a little out of touch with the current trend. Evidently men are becoming "feminized". No one has told any of the men that I actually deal with, though. I'm okay with that.

Once a man tosses out "feminazi", and it's companion word, "misandry", I know that further conversation with that man is impossible. I know it's a very old chestnut, but Rebecca West really did have it right... differentiate yourself from a doormat, and voila! feminazi! Without even the stylish Hugo Boss uniform.

You talkin' about that moron from Australia? Nicky the Charmer? Or the uuenocock? There are a couple more. Wasters of good oxygen.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 51

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 9:27:53 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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I have pals who love trolling those morons...I can't be bothered, they never have new and entertaining material.

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[page 23 girl]

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Post #: 52

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 9:47:50 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Older generations of women continue to support atrotcities like child marriage and genital mutilation because it's all they know. An uneducated population has few options.

And then this rears its ugly head. Poor primitives that come from such inferior cultures. They don't know all we know, so they can't make the kind of choices we can make. We have to protect them from their own ignorant selves, lest they make the wrong decisions.

This is what freedom is about. The ability to choose FGM, IGM and MGM. The ability to choose to end a pregnancy when the foetus has Downs', or happens to be the wrong gender. The ability to tell your partner "beat me silly like you did last weekend... and let's skip the safeword this time."

Freedom isn't some utopian thing. It's better. Glorious. And it's real. And reality is harsh. Comes with a down for every up. Sees people clash over nothing and everything. Has people voting for the most insane candidates available. Shooting heroin cuz it's the best option on the table, financed by prostitution cuz it's also the best option on the table. And by best, I mean "only".

You don't need anyone to protect the freedom to choose the beaten path, or the freedom to say the popular thing. You need it to make sure people can fuck up whichever way they damn well wish, and then reality delivers the consequences, not the terror police. Or to make sure they can tell you precisely what you do not want to hear. What you're certain is wrong. What will be taken as a self-evident truth, centuries down the line. Like most things we hold true today started out, those we hold true tomorrow will also start out as heresies. And people will try to stamp them out today. History will call it persecution. Or the Dark Ages. Once, women were "protected" from the effect of unregulated sexual capital imbalance on culture. Today, it's self evident that women's sexual capital is to be on the free, open, unregulated market. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

FGM is defended by the same arguments that defend IGM (intersex genital mutilation) in the West, a practice that is widespread here, and far more objectively problematic than FGM by a wide margin. Just like there's controversy and dissent on the IGM issue here, and even on male genital mutilation (much less objectively problematic), there is the same as regards FGM in Somalia (the "capital" of that specific procedure). Until we deal with IGM, I'm not even interested in hearing about FGM, except insofar as it's taking place in our own back yards. Legislating against it? Only when we're ready to legislate against IGM too, or to define objective, gender-independent criterion that form the basis of a law that regulates all three on a common principle.

I won't address the other example, as it's too close to the TOS void area for me.

And, incidentally, we all "only know" what we know. It's called being human. We make decisions based on situation, knowledge, emotions, culture, rearing and a zillion other factors, collectively referred to as "experience". And it's a foundation which suffices. Notably, the choices made don't start to change after education is added, in a lot of cases. We take on more refugees per year than our own birth rate, some of which arrive as kids. They get education, housing, work, all that jazz. And they still hold on to their own identities, their own cultures, their own customs. There's change, yes. But not everyone changes to the same extent.

The most dramatic example I know of, isn't going to be credible. But there's visible examples all around. For instance with the niqab, which many are trying to legislate away, and which means the same to a lot of these women as covering the genitals and mammaries means to our own sense of decency. I'm pretty sure it would be unwelcome on the part of the women here if a law were passed to enforce nudity. Some well meaning nudist explaining that being raised in western culture has blinded us to enlightened values and thus renders our choices invalid... I don't think that would make the imposition more welcome.

A part of wisdom lies in knowing that some of what you believe to be true, is false. A part of courage lies in going on anyway. Never is this so true as regards choice and freedom. To devalue freedom in the way you're (presumably unintentionally) doing here, has a direct analogy:

Should we outlaw democracy because Fox News exists?

That's the crux of this matter.

Health,
al-Aswad.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 2/24/2012 9:50:28 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 53

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/24/2012 9:58:48 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

I'm sorry, Aswad, what freedom am I devaluing? (Not trying to be contentious, just not clear at then end of a too -long workday, and want to be sure I made sense.)

I am indeed against IGM, but I offer that comparitively few are affected by it.

It's a fine line, wanting to advocate for an oppressed group while not "destroying" their culture. I don't approve of honor killings--which have happened in my own area, so it's not some faraway reality. I don't approve of twelve year old girls having children. Can I do anything to stop those things? No. All I can do is share the information.

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Post #: 54

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/25/2012 12:27:30 AM

SilverBoat

Posts: 257
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline

Heh, mark your calendars, it's that rare that I agree with TheHeretic:

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
How do YOU define feminazi?
It's one of those fun little words, made up to describe asshole authoritarians who happen to be women, coming at it from a feminist launching pad.

And to frame another definition of "feminazi" by example, it's those women so obsessed with imposing their view of reality on the world that when a door is courteously held open for them by a (gasp) chauvinistically patronizing (and obviously therefore inferior half of the species) male, that they stalk pointedly up and slam open the other door for themselves, or refuse to go through, holding up everybody else if there isn't another door on which they can demonstrate their socially enlightened superiority.

(Yeah, I had and/or saw that happen several times back in the '80s. Perhaps most women who were that assinine don't have anybody around them but sycophant by now?) ... shrug ... I hold doors because it's polite. If the next person is carrying something, if the swing direction opens to them first, if they're at all infirm or whatever, and if somebody is only a step behind, I reach back to keep the door open when I've gone through. No big deal. But any woman so preoccupied with politics that she resorts to causing dispolite social friction at that sort of petty level richly derserves the derision she earns.

YMMV, of course, but don't let the door hit ya in the you know whats ...

...

Sure, it sort of sucks that Limburg abuses the term on women who don't deserve it, but there are a few who do.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 55

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/25/2012 3:17:44 AM

Kaliko

Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
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I've never heard the term "feminazi" until these boards.

I think I most agree with Aswad's definition:

quote:

I would apply the term to radical feminists that would impose their doctrine on women, taking on the role of oppressor to "correct" or "protect" these "poor, weak sisters of ours that haven't our strength and insight". That's likely not the only case I would use the term, but I would like to think I reserve it for brands of feminism that are both too radical for the bulk of women and indefensible from where I stand.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 56

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/25/2012 3:21:16 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

I've never heard the term "feminazi" until these boards.

I think I most agree with Aswad's definition:

quote:

I would apply the term to radical feminists that would impose their doctrine on women, taking on the role of oppressor to "correct" or "protect" these "poor, weak sisters of ours that haven't our strength and insight". That's likely not the only case I would use the term, but I would like to think I reserve it for brands of feminism that are both too radical for the bulk of women and indefensible from where I stand.

Both of which have a subjective meaning and could be applied to any woman depending on the one applying them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kaliko)

Post #: 57

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/25/2012 4:07:10 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Consider the source,consider what was being discussed.
None of the women posting are "feminazis" not by any stretch of the word.
Yes I object to having the word used to describe posters, when its out of frustration and lack of facts to back up a poor argument.
We are on a kink site, where dominant people of both sexes,reside, so there is bound to be a clash of beliefs about the difference in roles but no matter the sex, one has to remember there is a difference between dominant and domineering, and submissive and doormat.

Like being called a marxist or a commie, if they had a clue about nuances and definitions, the term wouldnt be used, except by pouty people. But then, neither would psycho ass bitches, whore, cunt, gash, twat, or using fem hominems, whenever they cannot shut a woman up.
PS I have NO issue with the words in a "D/s role" relationship, only in topic derogative s.
just my two cents:)

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(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 58

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/25/2012 4:17:52 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

The more you educate women, the more opportunities they have, the more control they have over their lives, the more they can choose to have the children they can support when they want to have children.
Hence why Birth rates in the US, Canada, Europe, and Australia have dropped to replacement levels (or a little less, but that will self-correct in time).
So you see, I have selfish reasons for wanting equal rights for women, saving the planet is selfish, right?

A nice sentiment but I dont think thats the only reason birth rate levels have dropped. In the UK there used to be large families due to survival, nothing more. Going back as recently as my great grandparents it wasnt unusual to have as many as ten kids, this was due to poor health conditions and a lack of medical care resulting in many kids dying young.

(in reply to SoftBonds)

Post #: 59

RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/25/2012 4:19:35 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Thanks!

Youre both most welcome

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 60

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