RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness?

RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/27/2012 1:50:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Its Santorum... consider the source It's Obama... consider the source began apologizing for America all over the world during his 2008 campaign and hasn't stopped since then. After 8 years of Dubya/cheney, there was a lot to apologise for.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/27/2012 1:52:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whatisthewhat quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl You would yawn... some would kill. Is it worth that? Anyone who would kill over a book that can and has been reproduced millions of times is a sad, pathetic, small minded human being. I prefer to not indulge their paranoid religious fantasies about some mythology. If they kill someone over it, they should be prosecuted like the murderers they are. Its easy to say that when you are sitting on this side of the pond.

whatisthewhat -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/27/2012 1:59:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: whatisthewhat quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl You would yawn... some would kill. Is it worth that? Anyone who would kill over a book that can and has been reproduced millions of times is a sad, pathetic, small minded human being. I prefer to not indulge their paranoid religious fantasies about some mythology. If they kill someone over it, they should be prosecuted like the murderers they are. Its easy to say that when you are sitting on this side of the pond. Sure it is. I agree with you and lament the loss of life over what I truly believe is the accidental burning of Korans. Obama can apologize for it, and I will not necessarily fault him. But I am not one to live in fear of religious zealots. Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. And this is not about one particular religion. I'd burn any one of their books because all religious texts support nonsense and inequality. Speaking of which, I am diametrically opposed to Rick Santorum's views on just about everything, for what it's worth.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/27/2012 2:10:40 PM)
quote: Sure it is. I agree with you and lament the loss of life over what I truly believe is the accidental burning of Korans. The burning was not accidental. The act itself was intentional. quote: Furious Afghanis have demonstrated outside the main US military base in the country after a report that foreign troops had improperly disposed of a large number of Korans and other religious materials. General John Allen, commander of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), offered his "sincere apologies" for the actions in an apparent bid to prevent anti-Western anger from spreading across Afghanistan. "When we learned of these actions, we immediately intervened and stopped them. The materials recovered will be properly handled by appropriate religious authorities," he said. "This was not intentional in any way." http://www.australianetworknews.com/stories/201202/3436286.htm?desktop The accident may have been that they did not know how to properly get rid of that material. But the burning was no accident.

GrandPoobah -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/27/2012 3:28:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel Sunday, on two separate news shows on two networks, Santorum accused Obama of being weak for apologizing to the Muslim world for the Quran burning in Afghanistan. Santorum claimed there was no need for Obama to apologize because the burning of the holy books was "inadvertent". The way I see it, the military made a mistake. Obama then apologized for that mistake as commander in chief. I guess Santorum either A) has never made a mistake or B) has never apologized for that mistake because hey, it was a mistake. An apology is nothing more than a simple admission that "we (I) screwed up." In every human interaction, there is a chance to offend someone, and the simple words "I'm sorry" can often go a long ways towards minimizing the effects of that "screw up." When nothing is said, the offended party is left to conclude the act (or words) were intentional, thus deepening the hurt. Do we think less of the person who apologizes? Not usually. Usually we believe they are sincere, and truly wish "that thing" hadn't happened. We're more willing to move on. For years, the US government refused to apologize for the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII. Finally, after most of the affected people were dead, somebody finally had the nerve to say (admit) that "we screwed up." Surprisingly, the remaining survivors really appreciated that. Of course, beyond a small monetary compensation, the words did nothing. However, they "meant a lot." To date, the Japanese government has never apologized for what they did in Korea. Why? Their society is too focused on "saving face" even though none of the current leaders were alive when all that happened. If, today, the Japanese government publicly stated "You know, we did some things in Korea that were not good things, and we're truly sorry those things happened" the Koreans would gladly accept the apology, and think nothing less of the current Japanese leaders. In fact, they'd probably respect them far more. Saying those words can be hard, but the impact is incalculable. While it probably didn't change many minds, Obama did the right thing. We screwed up...and needed to admit it. If the US wants to be a world leader again (lost during the Bush years) it's things like this that will re-assure people we mean it.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/27/2012 4:53:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl http://www.australianetworknews.com/stories/201202/3436286.htm?desktop The accident may have been that they did not know how to properly get rid of that material. But the burning was no accident. Which is my whole point over any of these incidents that took place in Afghanistan and Iraq by the allied forces. Miltary people from the low level troops to the top commander are now aware of the possible fallouts in such events. They should strive to avoid these and give the Taliban/insurgents any chance to stir up the general population. The big downside to this is that lives have sadly been lost, so those griping about Obama making an apology need to focus on the bigger issue.

Politesub53 -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/27/2012 4:57:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Doesn't look like he can, no. Maybe he is searching fox news for "the truth"

thompsonx -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/28/2012 10:47:14 AM)
quote: Of course, I also think there is no such time as "too soon," to get the hell out of Afghanistan. What he said

thompsonx -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/28/2012 10:48:57 AM)
quote: If I said to you "Stalin killed 30 million", would your witty riposte be "there are two sides to every coin, ya know"? I would say you are mistaken.

thompsonx -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/28/2012 10:53:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Its Santorum... consider the source It's Obama... consider the source began apologizing for America all over the world during his 2008 campaign and hasn't stopped since then. Would you not apologize if you made a mistake?

Musicmystery -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/28/2012 11:14:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel Sunday, on two separate news shows on two networks, Santorum accused Obama of being weak for apologizing to the Muslim world for the Quran burning in Afghanistan. Santorum claimed there was no need for Obama to apologize because the burning of the holy books was "inadvertent". The way I see it, the military made a mistake. Obama then apologized for that mistake as commander in chief. I guess Santorum either A) has never made a mistake or B) has never apologized for that mistake because hey, it was a mistake. or C) understands nothing of the world and D) can't see the sense of preventing unnecessary fallout.

Anaxagoras -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/28/2012 5:09:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: If I said to you "Stalin killed 30 million", would your witty riposte be "there are two sides to every coin, ya know"? I would say you are mistaken. The thirty million figure is a median point of scholarly estimates of between 15 million and in excess of 50 million deaths http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm#Stalin attributed to Stalin's 29 year rule that typically exclude WWII deaths due to conflict.

tweakabelle -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/28/2012 9:41:00 PM)
On the question of apologies generally, I tend to think more highly of someone who has the moral courage and integrity to apologise if they have made an error of some kind. I would see a refusal to apologise where one has been in the wrong as denoting a both a "weakness" and a character flaw that could extend to arrogance. In the end it is a question of personal integrity IMHO. And those who refuse to apologise when they are clearly in the wrong are lacking integrity IMHO. I'm a little saddened by the failure to recognise the positive qualities of apologies by some here. If we are talking about apologies in a political context, I am unable to see how any of the above doesn't apply simply because it's politics and not personal relations.

SternSkipper -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/28/2012 9:45:21 PM)
quote: What in the hell are we still doing there? Those people hate us...and I'm not too fond of them. I say leave them to the 6th century and tell them if we have to come back we will bomb them to the 21st century. Right now you mean? WITHDRAWING... A process the previous President Neglected.

Moonhead -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/29/2012 5:06:33 AM)
Mind you, that's probably more ~~Darth Vader~~Cheny's fault than the chimp's. The chimp was just there to smirk and sneer and bluster, and distract attention away from who was actually running the country. (Rather like Mahmud Ahminadinnajacket, in fact.)

SternSkipper -> RE: Is Obama's apology for Quran burning a sign of weakness? (2/29/2012 6:08:22 AM)
quote: Mind you, that's probably more Darth VaderCheny's fault than the chimp's. The chimp was just there to smirk and sneer and bluster, and distract attention away from who was actually running the country. (Rather like Mahmud Ahminadinnajacket, in fact.) I'm afraid you're mistaken... The Vice President of The United States and President of The United States Senate was rather busy adding a never before uttered term to the congressional record ... to wit "Why Don't You Go Fuck Yourself". Thus lowering the bar of congressional conduct forever. That asshole should be stricken from the history books ... except then no one down the road would know that Dick Cheney administered the largest car-jacking in the history of mankind.

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