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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 2/29/2012 7:47:07 PM   
Edwynn


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That last part agreed, and I've never said any different.

It's just that I prefer sane discourse to simplistic ranting, of which the whole red/blue state canard is emblematic. The normal crude political antagonizing solves nothing, else it would have done so long ago.

The OWS  movement, e.g., is not what I consider antagonizing, but rather a necessary bringing to attention of the state of affairs regarding corporate usurpation of the democratic process. They were not overtly political because the political process as it stands today is in fact a large part of the problem.






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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 2/29/2012 7:48:52 PM   
Owner59


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Mostly we`re having fun.....


Now where are you from and when you gonna pay us back that money?

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 2/29/2012 7:51:18 PM   
SoftBonds


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I think we should take Rick Perry up on his offer to have Texas leave the US...

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 2/29/2012 8:03:39 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

As long as the gun makers in red states stop flooding and super saturating our streets with with cheap hang guns.......maybe we can make a deal.



While leaving all the gun manufacturers in blue states in business. How typical. In any event, I'm sure the Middle East and Sub Saharan Africa feel likewise about the US.

quote:

Mostly we`re having fun.....



I'm sure that you were, but the OP and that article quoted were dead serious.

quote:

Now where are you from and when you gonna pay us back that money?




Ha. I might be older, and stupid enough to be going to the uni at this stage, but I ain't got one of those student loans yet (I might have to in my last semester, but dang I hope not).

Besides, my state uni tuition is cheaper than your state uni tuition, ergo less Pell grant money, so there.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/29/2012 8:29:17 PM >

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 2/29/2012 8:11:00 PM   
bamabbwsub


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Wow. What a way to stereotype and lump a bunch of people into the same basket! I live and work in Alabama, and believe me, I pay plenty of taxes. Granted, my state has a lot of poorer sections, and my taxes go towards supporting them, but according to this rant, I'm still a "parasite."

This article is like saying, "All black people are criminals" or "All Southerners are stupid" or "All women are weak." Yes, there are black people that are criminals, yes there are stupid Southerners, and yes, there are weak women. But to lump an entire category of people (in this case, a state) into the same category, is just narrow-minded.

In my not-so-humble opinion, lumping states into this parasite vs. producer basket is deflecting where the real problem lies: in the welfare system, which was never intended to be a long-term, multi-generational program; in government overspending and mis-spending; and in the mentality of "I pay taxes; therefore, I own you." Believe me, I heard that plenty of times when I was a teacher, and guess what? I was a taxpayer then, too! So I had just as much ownership of myself as the parent who was trying to tell me that little Johnny shouldn't fail even though he never did any homework and flunked his tests.


quote:

FIRST off, dear Red Staters: If your town’s economy depends on a nearby dam, canal, harbor, airport, military base, interstate highway, national park or monument, or prison, just STFU. Because you are, in every way possible, a parasite, living off something the rest of us paid to build.


I work on a military base and pay more than my fair share of taxes. Additionally, the military base that I work on was built in the 1960's, so you can STFU, because YOUR taxes didn't pay for it! It was already built before most of you were born. And if the military base were to shut down, I'd lose my job, and wouldn't be able to pay taxes. But hey, according to you, I'm a parasite anyway, so it's just expected for me to live off the gubment. I think I might just resign tomorrow and apply for welfare.

quote:

SECOND: If you are a homeowner who takes a mortgage interest deduction — which is how the rest of us subsidize your house, and with it your status in the middle-class — we don’t want to hear another word from you about how you made it all on your own. And that goes for those of you who got your education via the GI Bill, or took out an SBA loan, or went to well-funded public schools back when such things existed. You are what you are because we believed in you, and invested in you. And we’re deeply insulted that you refuse to even acknowledge that fact.


So trying to get back more of the taxes that I PAID by taking a mortgage interest deduction is WRONG? I would say that NOT taking any legal deduction you can is INSANE. Do those of you who have children deduct them as a dependent? Or do any of you file as Head of Household to get more taxes back? Shame on all of you, then!

Also, the GI Bill is a very small price to pay for those who served in our nation's military, and is actually an INVESTMENT towards someone's education so that they can get a decent-paying job and thus PAY TAXES. Same with an SBA loan. A "loan" isn't a handout.

quote:

THIRD: Don't come crawling to us to support those kids you couldn't afford to have, but refused to allow contraception or abortions or actual fact-based sex education to prevent. It's just that simple. Our blue-state babies are better off in every way that matters because we plan our families.


I don't have kids; how's that for family planning?? And because I don't have kids, I'm not asking anyone to support them. In fact, maybe I deserve a REFUND because I saved you blue-staters some money by not having to dish out your hard-earned tax money to educate my children.

quote:

FOURTH: Don't ask us to pay to educate your kids if you're not willing to have us teach them what we know about the world. We believe in free, comprehensive, rigorous and reality-based public education because it’s done more than any other government service to make us rich, powerful and successful; and we want the same for you.


See above.

quote:

FIFTH: Between federal water reclamation projects and farm subsidies, we are paying you zillions of dollars to grow stuff we'd actually rather not eat. Don’t look now, but those of us in blue cities and states are moving away from your petrochemical-saturated GMO-bred CAFO-grown industrial “food” products as fast as we possibly can. There aren’t enough organic and community-supported farms to feed all of us yet — but we have taken responsibility for this, and are working hard on the problem.


So I guess the new EarthFare that just opened up in Huntsville doesn't really belong here, since there aren't any petrochemical-saturated GMO-bred CAFO-grown industrial “food” products to be found there. Silly me for shopping there. In fact, I think I'm going to start protesting in front of the store, since red-staters like me don't give a flying f*ck and aren't taking any responsibility for anything.

quote:

SIXTH: We are so over your bigotry. Again: we know from our own long experience that including women, gays and minorities makes us not only culturally richer; it also makes us more economically productive as well.


Bigotry: stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own

Hypocrisy: a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess

Mirror: a reflecting surface, designed to give a faithful representation, image, or idea of

quote:

FINALLY: If you want to pretend global warming isn't happening, you do not get to come whining to us when you get hit with droughts or floods. We're not going to send FEMA to bail you out. We're not going to build canals to give you our water.


Droughts and floods have been happening for millennia. I'm not saying that global warming isn't happening, but to say that it is the only cause of droughts and floods is completely unfounded. As for building canals...that's funny. California is a "blue" state whose entire west coast borders the sea, yet they rely on water from the Colorado River and are well-known for the California Water Wars. No state, whether blue or red, has any say in whether there is more or less rain from one year to another.

So do me a favor, Ayn Rand and supporters: Look for the REAL problems and then come up with a REAL solution that doesn't generalize to the point of not only being insulting, but being downright wrong as well.


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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 2/29/2012 8:43:12 PM   
tweakabelle


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Hilarious. To my eyes, the OP is written in a sledge hammer style. And the reaction of conservatives here is to take it literally.

It's not meant to be taken word-for-word literally (or in looney right speak it's not like the Bible). It is an example of the insanity that will occur if right wing policies were actually implemented. And that, I would think, is the last thing the OP's author wants. Actually the last thing that any thinking person would want.

However, if you like the looney right, by all means think of it as a blueprint (no pun intended) for the future. This is what happens when the idiotic Rand-type policies, or the right's mantra of 'personal responsibility' are actually implemented in today's world. Simple solutions for simple folk in simple societies that are guaranteed to create disasters in today's world.

So vote blue for disaster. But please don't come whinging and moaning to us to get you out of the mess you will have created for yourselves. The USA and the rest of the world is still busy trying to recover from the damage done by the last blue resident of the White House. Who wants to go back there?

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 2/29/2012 9:14:15 PM   
Edwynn


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The superficial intention of the article was to run through the scenario of a Rand-inspired society for benefit of those who profess to desire it, and had the author held to that, the point would have been at least somewhat effective. But being unable to restrain his inherent bigotry, the underlying and more dedicated intention was to slam all people in 'red' states as being imbeciles, by way of ascribing some alleged desire for this dystopia to all residents within, or proclaiming that anyone and everyone who might have voted for a Republican actually desires this or even gives a crap about Ayn Rand at all.

People who still believe in and take the political news as gospel and have no desire to expand their awareness beyond that are left with such childishness as this, and even consider themselves clever for doing so. 

Not my cup of bread and circuses, to mangle two metaphors (appropriately in this case, it deserves no less).



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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 3:55:01 AM   
Moonhead


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Anybody who can still take that "Republican fiscal conservatism" bullshit seriously this side of the Reagan and Chimp presidencies is probably so stupid they shouldn't be allowed to vote in the first place.

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 5:44:29 AM   
SilverBoat


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FR---

Most people, especially her fawning lunatic fan club, never grasp (or won't admit) that Rand herself was a sociopathic con-artist. She didn't produce anything beyond litanies of grotesquely tedious so-called literature and some twisted cults of self-justifying parasitic personality.

"No, no, no!" her duplicitous acolytes and their idiot sheeple will object to that assessment, "she produced ... (wait for it) .....  -Ideas-!"        


Not really. All of that supposedly 'objectivist' philosophoid crap she crocked up was nothing more than rehashed modernist garbage. There's an easy litmus test for that, her adherents see The Prince as a recipe-book for social prowess, and not a deftly scathing parody.

Blah. Anybody who parrots her theory ranks as either a fool or a liar.

Y'all have a nice day now, I'm going to go actually produce something; drawings and tools that we'll sell for profits to pump pre-cambrian hydrocarbons into your oh-so sacred smog-wagons.

Great find, OP.


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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 6:28:49 AM   
Moonhead


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Technically, Objectivism was a cult rather than a philosophy. Rand decided who was and who wasn't an objectivist on her say so, rather than any trivialities such as ideological similarities. Even more amusingly Rand and her inner circle weren't expected to live by self righteously histrionic rules her cult proposed.

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 7:07:34 AM   
fucktoyprincess


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FR

Just want to say that there are liberals in every state of the United States. Look at any election results from previous elections and you will see that almost all states have a divided electorate - some just skew a little more one way than the others. So while I see that one might want to use "red state" as an easy shorthand for "conservative" or "Republican", I'm not sure it accurately reflects how divisive politics are in many states. Liberals are everywhere. Please don't associate domicile with political views.

With that said, yes, hypocrisy is everywhere, and no more self-evident than with so-called "conservative" types.

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 7:57:25 AM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

When I lived in Alaska, the Federal Government paid $6 in Alaska for services for each $1 in taxes collected. Might have gone down some since then.
Still, it would be a wonderful idea to propose that, as a way of reducing Federal spending, no state could receive more in Federal spending than, say, 110% of the money it's citizens paid in taxes. New England, the Mid Atlantic States, and the West Coast wouldn't notice. The bible belt would go into a great depression...


So someone sent me a personal e-mail pointing out that my figures were "wrong," because I used per capita numbers. This person said that if I had looked at total numbers Alaska pays more than it receives in federal spending.
So I pointed out that to get the total numbers, multiply the per-capita numbers by the population of Alaska... grin


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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 12:04:14 PM   
kalikshama


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"But maybe it's time to admit that we're being played for chumps, and that there are people in the rest of the country who are taking way too much advantage of our good nature. After all: it's now a stone fact that the blue states and cities are the country's real wealth creators. That's why we pay more taxes, and are able to send that money to the red states in the first place. We're working our butts off, being economically productive, going to college, raising good kids, supporting reality-based schools, keeping our marriages together, tending to our busy and diverse cities, and generally Playing By The Rules. And the fates have smiled on us in rough proportion to the degree that we’ve invested in our own common good.

So we've got every right to get good and angry about the fact that, by and large, the people who are getting our money are so damned ungrateful -- not to mention so ridiculously eager to spend it on stuff we don't approve of. We didn't ship them our hard-earned tax dollars to see them squandered on worse-than-useless abstinence-only education, textbooks that teach creationism, crisis-pregnancy misinformation centers, subsidies for GMO crops and oil companies, and so on. And we sure as hell didn't expect to be rewarded for our productivity and generosity with a rising tide of spittle-flecked insanity about how we’re just a bunch of immoral, godless, drug-soaked, sex-crazed, evil America-hating traitors who can’t wait to hand the country over to the Islamists and the Communists."


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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 12:08:24 PM   
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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 1:17:43 PM   
wolf223


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Just keep arguing red or blue repub or dem while the fucking boat keeps
sinking no matter who is in charge.

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 2:00:03 PM   
kalikshama


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Here's the lesson Mr. Romney: Don't bet against America

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 2:17:24 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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omg. Well this readily explains the deficit. We clearly have very FEW states that pay in more than they receive. To my eye from looking at this map, almost every state is receiving more than their fair share....

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 4:06:05 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

omg. Well this readily explains the deficit. We clearly have very FEW states that pay in more than they receive. To my eye from looking at this map, almost every state is receiving more than their fair share....


Like I said, cap it at $1.10 per capita for every state...

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 4:06:21 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

Just want to say that there are liberals in every state of the United States. Look at any election results from previous elections and you will see that almost all states have a divided electorate - some just skew a little more one way than the others. So while I see that one might want to use "red state" as an easy shorthand for "conservative" or "Republican", I'm not sure it accurately reflects how divisive politics are in many states. Liberals are everywhere. Please don't associate domicile with political views.

With that said, yes, hypocrisy is everywhere, and no more self-evident than with so-called "conservative" types.


This is very true.

Actually it`s better than that....there were states......red states that were thought of as solid republican that are moving to the left and electing democrats......President Obama being just one.

Could be from people moving/out or just because progressive movement never really stops.....people`s POVs grow and become less conservative......all on their own.

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RE: By Ayn Rand's Standards, Red States Are the Parasites - 3/1/2012 4:29:23 PM   
SoftBonds


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My (admitedly limited) historical perspective is that liberals tend to be young, and conservatives tend to be old. Please note the "tend to be," not saying it is true of everyone.
That said, liberal is the political position that a change would be good. Conservative tends to be the political position of preserving, or "conserving," the existing situation. Conservatives also tend to try to reverse changes, restoring previous norms.
I have suspected that part of the reason for older people being more conservative was that they had seen most of the changes they wanted enacted, and the new changes were not ones they wanted. So a 1960's liberal seeks equality for Blacks, but not gays. A 2000 liberal seeks equality for gays, but who knows what my position will be on the liberal cause of 2040?
I think we wonder back and forth over a line of "how fast we change," but we certainly are changing, and I think for the better. Women and Blacks can vote, Whites and Blacks can marry now. Gays are generally not charged with a crime for existing any more, discrimination against them is less, and they can marry in some states at least.
I don't know that the "good old days," were that great honestly...
/end pointless ramble.

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