RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 7:31:15 AM)

Just as I blamed Rush and Newt and their "My way or the High Way" politics for Bob Dole's defeat, I blame Rush, Beck, Breitbart, Coulter, et al for the decline of the Republican party in the new century.

Winning elections is a simple process. All you have to do is get more people to come into your tent than the other side does.
To do that, you make your tent nice and big and inviting. The Right Wingers have done the opposite. The Republican tent used to be big. As long as you were a moral person who believed in a strong defense and fiscal conservancy, you were welcome.

30 years ago, the tent started to shrink. Worse yet, it started to move. People who had comfortably sat under the R tent for decades found themselves out and exposed because they MOVED THE DAMN TENT. Not only did they move it, they made it really small. Then, when you wanted back in to what you thought was YOUR tent, you find out that they changed the rules for admission.

Disgusted, you walk away. Then, on the horizon, you see a big tent that has D on it. In front of that tent, there's a sign that said "Independents Welcome"

The rest is the history of a party that destroyed itself.



Fightdirecto -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 7:46:06 AM)

I, for one, know better - Rush "I have a pimple on my butt so I can't go into the military and go to Vietnam" Limbaugh is NOT the voice of ALL American conservatives (though he MAY be the voice of SOME American conservatives).

That said, the title of this thread brought this to mind:

Why is it that when Michael Moore or Sean Penn make a statement about a government policy (for example) that gets a generally negative public reaction - conservatives on Internet Forums and in Letters To The Editor or on their TV channel (Fox News) claim that since Moore or Penn said it, it is the position of each and every American liberal -

But if Limbaugh, or Beck or Coulter make a statement about a government policy (for example) that gets a generally negative public reaction, conservatives on Internet Forums and in Letters To The Editor or on their TV Channel (Fox News) claim that it's just Limbaugh's or Beck's or Coulter's opinion and not the position of all American conservatives?



SoftBonds -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 7:50:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Hi, DC.

First off, this young woman is entitled all the same protections and respect for her character that Joe the Plumber got a few years back. Tough shit, to anybody who didn't whine when the bar got lowered to where it is, and doesn't like it now. Tougher shit to those who joined that party, and will now shriek and wail on her behalf, this time.

You've got to be kidding.

How precisely was fact checking Sam Wurzelbacher's untrue claims, he was not a plumber and was not in a position to buy the company that employed him, equivalent to calling a law school student a "slut?"


Well, other than the fact that Sam was lying, while this woman was telling the truth, and that Sam was accused of things he actually did, by people who did research, while this woman was accused of things she didn't do, by someone who didn't care if he was telling the truth, the situations are identical...
oh, wait...



outhere69 -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 8:11:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
But if Limbaugh, or Beck or Coulter make a statement about a government policy (for example) that gets a generally negative public reaction, conservatives on Internet Forums and in Letters To The Editor or on their TV Channel (Fox News) claim that it's just Limbaugh's or Beck's or Coulter's opinion and not the position of all American conservatives?

Could be because he's been named an honorable member of Congress (back in the 106th IIRC). Or because he gets an apology from Steele because he was butthurt by Steele's comments, and the whole butthurt episode contributed to Steele's downfall (note I didn't say solely). I mean, how often have GOP members said "Hey, you're wrong about x/y/z."

I haven't heard of Moore, et al being so honored by the Dems.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 8:20:21 AM)

I applaud Georgetown University for the letter they wrote in support of the importance of public discourse, and how Limbaugh and others are being completely inappropriate. I also applaud President Obama for having called Fluke and commending her for her testimony, and for telling her that her parents should be proud of her.

It is a time honored tactic of men to discredit women's credibility by calling women's sexuality into question in one way or another when a woman has something compelling to say (in other words, when a woman disagrees with a man and stands up for herself she will be called any number of things - lesbian, slut, whore, etc. all in an attempt to derail her from speaking her mind and voicing her opinion for others to hear). And, in my experience, it usually comes from men who are very insecure about their own intelligence and/or physical/sexual capabilities. In addition, as if this were not bad enough, Limbaugh also felt the need to question whether her parents would feel proud of her. So not only is he attacking any woman who is sexually active, but their parents, as well. Nice job.

Fluke is a law student (which means she is probably at least 22 years old). Who in their right mind in 2012 thinks that a woman in her TWENTIES would not have an active sex life?? Is this not the stage of life when most people date and meet someone for a longer term relationship??? We are not talking about a teenager here (because I think the debate and concerns about teenage sexuality are a little different and with different social implications due to the impact of teenage pregnancies on youth and society generally). Does Limbaugh really think that women in their twenties are not having sex and saving themselves for marriage? What planet are we on? What plant is he smoking? For heaven's sake.

Does he represent all conservatives? Likely not. But he does represent a certain kind of conservative that has helped Republican successes in the past. This type of thinking is dangerous, because there are enoughpeople who support this kind of thinking to have political impact.

If Limbaugh wants to discuss sexual politics why doesn't he call on Sarah Palin and take on the issue of teenage pregnancy? Maybe Palin's daughter could have used aspirin between the knees.

I wish one could write these types of people off. But there are people who agree with Limbaugh's point of view. Look at how few Republicans have come forward to denounce Limbaugh's comments. Why? Because they are scared of voter reaction.





DarkSteven -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 8:33:48 AM)

This is starting to blow up. Big.

Note that after prodding, Boehner came out denouncing both the comments and those fundraising from it. Kinda lukewarm. Santorum directly denounced the statement, while Romney avoided it and finally denounced it weakly.

Rush has doubled down and basically criticized Obama for being nice to this woman and making a phone call to her.

Rush pushed things too far. He changed the argument from being over the government's right to prescribe health care plans, to exactly how much the GOP wants to kick women. And the GOP is trying to avoid alienating either the Limbaugh empire's listeners and the entire female voter bloc and failing.

The real fun is when a law student gets to sue Limbaugh, his business entity, and the radio station empire that employs him for defamation and libel. She has a very real chance to hurt him, and the longer this issue keeps on, the more medieval the entire GOP looks.



slvemike4u -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 8:34:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Just as I blamed Rush and Newt and their "My way or the High Way" politics for Bob Dole's defeat, I blame Rush, Beck, Breitbart, Coulter, et al for the decline of the Republican party in the new century.

Winning elections is a simple process. All you have to do is get more people to come into your tent than the other side does.
To do that, you make your tent nice and big and inviting. The Right Wingers have done the opposite. The Republican tent used to be big. As long as you were a moral person who believed in a strong defense and fiscal conservancy, you were welcome.

30 years ago, the tent started to shrink. Worse yet, it started to move. People who had comfortably sat under the R tent for decades found themselves out and exposed because they MOVED THE DAMN TENT. Not only did they move it, they made it really small. Then, when you wanted back in to what you thought was YOUR tent, you find out that they changed the rules for admission.

Disgusted, you walk away. Then, on the horizon, you see a big tent that has D on it. In front of that tent, there's a sign that said "Independents Welcome"

The rest is the history of a party that destroyed itself.

QFT....really nothing more that I choose to add,real good job Hill [:)]



TheHeretic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 8:54:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You've got to be kidding.

How precisely was fact checking Sam Wurzelbacher's untrue claims, he was not a plumber and was not in a position to buy the company that employed him, equivalent to calling a law school student a "slut?"



I'm not kidding in any way, Ken. Joe the Plumber didn't need to be destroyed in the public arena because he asked a hypothetical, phrased in the first person. He needed to be destroyed to distract any and all attention away from the answer he received. Had then candidate Obama given a bland, non-answer sort of answer, there never would have been a story to begin with.

This is the standard in play. When a private citizen comes into the lights of a polarizing national discussion, deliberately, or by fluke, character assassination among the chattering classes is the way the game gets played. It isn't very nice, but I'll be happy to go over the Alinsky method again, if need be.

This young woman got up and talked about her right to subsidized promiscuity. Guess what? A guy who finances his private jet, his luxury oceanfront home, his wild overseas sexual tourism escapades, and hiring Elton John to come perform at his wedding, by being outrageous and controversial, is going to call her a slut.

Understand the equivalency now?



kdsub -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 8:56:08 AM)

No proof or statistics for my opinion but I think the political and social climate in America that encourages and supports the Limbaugh’s of this world is more a frustration over a declining society.

Children are finding they cannot match the standard of living that their parents provided. When America was at the height of its power we could afford to be liberal…Lets face it… it takes more money to be liberal than conservative.

If you ask a tea party or ardent conservative member on a one to one basis if they support or believe in the radical hyperbole of talk radio they will say no. But… it is a voice for change from the path we have been following for the last 30 years…Even if wrong doing something different is better than what we were doing.


They get so damn frustrated that a stick in the ass of congress Limbaugh is providing provides some relief. Sorta like pinching your sister to get on her side of the back seat.

Butch



Owner59 -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 8:59:53 AM)

[image]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R46cORot3DA/TZcnPuOzTuI/AAAAAAAAHOE/CwNPXLNVJkY/s1600/Libya-GOP-3-31-11-color-640x493.jpg[/image]



outhere69 -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:01:18 AM)

Hell, conservatives can run up huge bills on defense spending, a la Reagan and Bush 43.



Edwynn -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:20:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

What planet are we on?



For some, a planet that existed forty years or longer ago.

Witness:

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

This young woman got up and talked about her right to subsidized promiscuity.



Note that even forty or more years ago promiscuity was a term used for easily going from one partner to the next, on some occasions perhaps even  two or more simultaneously. The poster above apparently agrees with Rush that even long term monogamous pre-marital sexual relationships constitute 'promiscuity.' That designation applying of course only to the woman in the situation.


That's what planet they're on.






Lucylastic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:24:36 AM)

remember all the screaming done when Palin the younger got pregnant ?



SoftBonds -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:25:09 AM)

I love how so many on the right are still sticking to "we shouldn't have to pay for her promiscuity." Proving that they didn't hear what she said, only what Rush said she said...
Lost in this debate is why she was taking the pills, not for pregnancy prevention, but for hormonal control-medical issues.
But easier to jump to conclusions and then double down on them.
Rush is so old he needs Viagra. He is so fat he can't even see his wiener, he says so much crap about women his wiener is probably the size of a Vienna sausage. No woman would sleep with him for fear of suffocation.
See how it works? I didn't ask any questions, I just took his appearance and made a bunch of assumptions. How did it go?



Lucylastic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:28:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

What planet are we on?



For some, a planet that existed forty years or longer ago.

Witness:

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

This young woman got up and talked about her right to subsidized promiscuity.



Note that even forty or more years ago promiscuity was a term used for easily going from one partner to the next, sometimes two or more simultaneously. The poster above apparently agrees with Rush that even long term monogamous pre-marital sexual relationships constitute 'promiscuity.'





Of course she talked about hormonal issues her friend had... how is that paying for someones promiscuity.
Waiting for the disinformation to trickle thru, but no matter what people say....
You dont take birth control pills like viagra or condoms...unless its the morning after, and, thats not happening either.
Facts are pesky issues when they point out how dumb you have to be to believe his rants(rush)



dcnovice -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:30:32 AM)

quote:

subsidized promiscuity


That seems a little hyperbolic. Wouldn't many of those benefiting from insurance coverage of contraceptives be married?



SoftBonds -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:35:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

subsidized promiscuity


That seems a little hyperbolic. Wouldn't many of those benefiting from insurance coverage of contraceptives be married?


You forget, for the religious right, married folks shouldn't use contraception either. If it is gods will that they have lots of kids, it is god's will. See the Duggers...



slvemike4u -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:36:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You've got to be kidding.

How precisely was fact checking Sam Wurzelbacher's untrue claims, he was not a plumber and was not in a position to buy the company that employed him, equivalent to calling a law school student a "slut?"



I'm not kidding in any way, Ken. Joe the Plumber didn't need to be destroyed in the public arena because he asked a hypothetical, phrased in the first person. He needed to be destroyed to distract any and all attention away from the answer he received. Had then candidate Obama given a bland, non-answer sort of answer, there never would have been a story to begin with.

This is the standard in play. When a private citizen comes into the lights of a polarizing national discussion, deliberately, or by fluke, character assassination among the chattering classes is the way the game gets played. It isn't very nice, but I'll be happy to go over the Alinsky method again, if need be.

This young woman got up and talked about her right to subsidized promiscuity. Guess what? A guy who finances his private jet, his luxury oceanfront home, his wild overseas sexual tourism escapades, and hiring Elton John to come perform at his wedding, by being outrageous and controversial, is going to call her a slut.

Understand the equivalency now?

Of course in your narrative we ignore the part that than candidate(thank god failed candidate) McCain played in the unraveling of the worlds most famous plumber.
Had not Sarah Palin's greatest booster chosen to highlight the Obama/Joe incident the media might not have grabbed onto the story like so many rabid dogs.
At that point it was a foregone conclusion that Joe's fantasy picture of himself would start to unravel...and in a very public way.
Now of course in hindsight,and given the Palin selection we see that McCain never really paid much attention to vetting or looking hard at a subject before opening his mouth(one of the many reasons he would have been uniquely unsuited to the office he sought ) .
Typical move Rich assigning all of this to "character assassination" ,when in truth it was nothing more than the media,given McCain's desire to USE Joe doing their fucking job and getting the facts straight(something McCain,and now you,should have done first)



TheHeretic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:40:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

What planet are we on?



For some, a planet that existed forty years or longer ago.

Witness:

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

This young woman got up and talked about her right to subsidized promiscuity.



Note that even forty or more years ago promiscuity was a term used for easily going from one partner to the next, on some occasions perhaps even  two or more simultaneously. The poster above apparently agrees with Rush that even long term monogamous pre-marital sexual relationships constitute 'promiscuity.' That designation applying of course only to the woman in the situation.


That's what planet they're on.







Did I issue any sort of value judgement on promiscuity, Edwynn? I'm a fan of promiscuity, as a matter of fact. I indulged in, and enjoyed the hell out of promiscuity for a goodly percentage of my life. And if we are going to become so heavily involved in healthcare (whole other subject) then we probably should be subsidizing it.

What planet are you two on, to think that your values are the only ones that can possibly exist, and only within the tiny framework of acceptable ways to discuss them?



Lucylastic -> RE: The Voice of American Conservatism? (3/3/2012 9:46:49 AM)

Wrong Rich, we are arguing against those who want to LIMIT other peoples choices because of their beliefs not facts
everyone should be able to choose to take BC, and be promiscuous, (amongst other things) by not adhering to one churches stance which would cover everyone they come into contact with.
Thats the difference
the hard right is almost demanding to be run by church dogma.





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